8 week old bath time/bedtime chaos

[dan220282]

Hello everyone. New user, long time lurker, looking for help please

First time dad, we need some help/advice and Im sure you've been asked this millions of times. We have an 8 week old little boy, who, during the day is good as gold, now, on our HV advice we started creating a "wind down" room, so darker room, no noise etc..and we take him here after his bath. This is normally between 6-7pm

Now he loves his baths sits there chilled as nothing splashing etc..we take him out into his nursery to get hime changed, as soon as we start putting his baby grow on him he starts to get restless, like he knows what is coming, we take him into our room where its dark with all intents and purposes to read him a story, give him some milk and let him drift off. Erm no.

Every.single.night for the past week, he just cries. And cries. And cries. and then as if by magic he'll stop crying after 25-30 minutes and go to sleep.

We are going out of our mind trying to work out what to do. Any help greatly appreciated.

OP, we are in a very similar situation. DD2 is just 9 weeks old, she has no real nap times during the day, no "routine" as such, she will pretty much only sleep in somebody's arms.
In the evening we do the bath, cuddle, feed routine in a dark room, with music playing, exactly as we did with DD1. Last night she fell asleep almost immediately on the bottle DH was giving her, but 15 after he put her in her sleepyhead she woke up, and then would NOT settle at all until close to 10:30. She was wide awake, playing, crying etc. We tried her BF feeding on me, dummy, rocking, swaddling, shushing, cuddling, EVERYTHING.
Finally, at 10:30pm we did what we swore we'd never do, and drove her around in the car to fall asleep. This took ages and she wasn't happy about it!
What makes it worse is that we did this routine with DD1, it worked like a dream and she is still the most amazing sleeper. So the standard we set is high! 🙈😆
We are at our wits end, there's so much out there saying we MUST do routines, beware of bad sleep associations etc etc, and my fear that I am creating a child who just will not sleep without being in my arms, is making us stressed and ratty with each other.
(On a side note, once asleep at night she will sleep until 2/3am feed and then again until 5/6am-so really well!)

I don't mean to hijack your thread OP, it's just nice to know we're in the same boat, and I'm watching all advice on here closely!

OP, I don't have any advice to add to above, which is all good, but some of it is perhaps a little less than gentle. You sound like a lovely dad & mum. Enjoy your little boy, it just keeps getting better.

We had a bedtime routine at this age but it included naked kick around time. Basically before or after the bath he kicked on his Mat with no clothes on whilst I read stories to him. I chose bright pictures, pop ups etc to visually engage him. The extra time of kicking about plus looking at the book tired him out, could you try this for your ds if he gets restless whilst you dress him?

Don't let anybody tell you it's too early for stories... It is never too early for stories!!

thanks for all the messages everyone. After speaking to the HV and whats been said on here, we've stopped giving him a bath everyday, and we've moved it to late afternoon, so he can have a kick about and not worry about bedtime, We've also sacked off stressing over what he "should" be doing and we go with it, turns out he does pretty much the same thing anyway. We're going to start trying self soothing at 12 weeks , the HV says its important you do this at some point and my best friend did it with his little girl at 14 weeks, she now sleeps like a dream, Ive just been told to expect a battle, as it can get messy haha. I read him stories, I sing to him and play him disney songs (for him of course ;) his attention span is literally seconds at the moment but i think we'll get there. This thread has helped a lot, thank you so much!

We're going to start trying self soothing at 12 weeks , the HV says its important you do this at some point

Your HV is talking out of their arse.

Honestly, where do they get these HV's from?

OP, we did a routine almost from day one and it worked well for us but we were flexible if things went pear shaped. Ds often had a colic/ whatever cry in the evenings,so I just cuddled him . Didn't make any difference,he still cried

Try not to stress about what you 'should' be doing and just do what works for your family.

I've got the Gentle Sleep Book and it has good tips for helping babies to sleep.

Up to you but FWIW I think self soothing at 12 weeks isn't going to happen!

It's a smile and nod thread.

I think it's not unusual for your new parents to think along the lines of "I'll do this right, won't make those mistakes you lot got into...".

You can't realistically counter this without sounding preacy and knowitall - exactly the sort of thing new parents resent hearing and often misinterpret.

Smile and nod. Smile and nod.

I dont think any of that. Our HV seems lovely and of course we take her advice when she gives it. After all she should know more than us. We're just trying to do the right thing and do our best as mom and dad. We might get told wrong info or take something someone says the wrong way but im sure we'll bumble through. Im glad plenty of people have the same experiences and as ive said this has helped a lot

After all she should know more than us

Don't presume that.

Our HV seems lovely and of course we take her advice when she gives it.

The best advice anyone could ever give a new parent is to listen to your baby. If they need a cuddle to get to sleep then that's what you give.

I'm not sure why you seem to have given your HV such high status, but if she is advising sleep training at 13 weeks then she is an arse.

Read the books. Ask people - both professional and personal. Remain open minded.

The person who knows best about what your baby needs is YOU

"After all she should know more than us."

Nope. Our HV hasn't got a clue. And I haven't heard good things about HVs in general.

Tbh I think experienced parents (such as those posting on this thread) know a lot more than the average HV about babies.

Good luck with your new baby Dan.

This coming year will probably be one of the steepest learning curve you'll ever experience. Enjoy the journey.

Not all HVs know their stuff when it comes to babies. Many of them base it on 'the books' or even their own children - if you asked 10 different HVs the same questions about things like sleep I bet you'd get 10 different answers.

But you've shown on this thread that you know exactly what to do for your baby - ask around for advice, whether that's books, MN or the HV. Try something out. If it works, great, if it doesn't, try something else. Just keep doing that, but with your own instincts at the forefront and you'll be fine. And remember that hard and fast rules don't really work with babies... Self soothing at 12 weeks might have been great for your friend's baby (who sounds like she thrived on routine) but it may not work for your baby, who is a unique little person with their own style of doing things.

Essentially, your baby hasn't read the books

Experienced parents on the "Sleep" forum might know quite a bit about baby sleep problems but this experience might not apply to an average baby. There are many babies out there who sleep well, who are able to self-settle at an early age and whose parents therefore do not read this forum. There is a reasonable chance Dan's baby may be "easy" and the HV might be seeing quite a few "easy babies".

It is pretty much a proven fact that babies cannot self-settle without comfort but this comfort does not have to come from parents. My nephew (who is now 7) learnt to suck his thumb in the womb. As soon as he got minimal hand coordination skills, he was able to put himself to sleep within minutes. He could not grab anything, he was probably not even sure his hands were part of his body but he could surely find his thumb. My sister had never understood what all the fuss with baby sleep is about until she had baby number 2. Other babies somehow manage to get comfort by sucking on edges of their sleeping bags or from licking their sheets (I had those in my NCT group). Babies can be very creative and some of these self-settling habits may come naturally.

In any case, good luck to OP!

Haha, great HV comment. My HV also told me that if my 3 months my baby couldn't self soothe I'd made a rod for my own back. I couldn't even get my baby to sleep anywhere but on my chest while breastfeeding let alone send himself off into a peaceful sleep in his cot by himself.
I spent months with ds asleep on my chest and as he was born in the winter and I was petrified of him suffocating he slept nice and snug while I froze every night. She still told me I was being very unsafe and made me sign a piece of paper to confirm she had told me that I was putting my baby's life in danger. That was a real high point

Anyway he started sleeping through by himself when he was around 7/8 months and old enough to understand we hadn't abandoned him! 12 weeks is quite laughable.

Please don't trust every word they say. Like pp have said if your baby is not the kind who will happily be put down and doze off please don't force that upon them yet. The time will come, but they've been on the planet for a matter of weeks and right now they just need to know they're loved and secure.

With my first baby I remember trying to instil a bed time routine at 8 weeks or so and just getting stressed out as it wasn't working. I think it's natural to want some form of control but tbh it's just too early for most babies. This time round I'm just enjoying the evening cuddles while my toddler is in bed and letting the baby tell me when he's ready for proper bedtime. At this age they basically sleep most of the time anyway!

It's never bad to teach a baby that when he cries, mummy or daddy will pick him up. You are teaching him he can be absolutely secure that his caregivers are there when he needs them. This in turn will allow him to be securely attached, and eventually much more independent as the world won't be so scary because he has learnt that mummy and daddy are there when it is x

Your hv sounds a bit twatty. Generally if advice makes you uncomfortable/suggests you to do something you can't bear, it's not advice worth following.

I really don't think you can teach them to self soothe at 12 weeks either, you can't really teach them anything at that age! Please enjoy the cuddles.

Teaching a baby to self-settle does not equal leaving a baby to cry. What it usually means with young babies (under 3-4 months) is shushing/patting, picking the baby up/putting down and being really, really, REALLY boring. It takes time and effort but it works for quite a few parents (including me).

It's not important to teach babies to self soothe as soon as possible. Their brains simply aren't developed enough to learn this skill - namely emotional regulation. Jeez, plenty of adults can't manage to regulate their emotions. It is possible to teach a baby there is no point crying as no one will come, so go to sleep. It's not the same thing though.

evolutionaryparenting.com/distress-self-soothing-and-extinction-sleep-training/

sarahockwell-smith.com/2014/06/30/self-settling-what-really-happens-when-you-teach-a-baby-to-self-soothe-to-sleep/

I can recommend Sarah Ockwell-Smith's 'Gentle Sleep Book' for tips on routine and promoting good night time sleep - no leaving to cry or teaching baby you won't be there necessary. Really worth a read with loads of practical advice and info on normal baby (and human) sleep x

Wintertravel I'd argue that's not really self settling/self soothing though. It's supporting baby so they feel secure and able to sleep

Shushing/patting/being really boring actually encouraged my DD to find her own independent way to self-soothe. She now rolls on her side, arches her back and throws her head back in a particular way (she was doing it when my DH and I shushed/patted her). It puts her to sleep in minutes. She stopped needing my help at 12 weeks and at week 10 she only woke up ever other night. At week 8, however, it was hell (I should have used a dummy!).

Shushing/patting does not usually work with older babies but it might be very useful with newborns.

We had a bedtime routine by this age - one that has stayed the same more or less since (by 'routine'I definitely mean doing familiar comforting things around the same time every day to differentiate daytime and bedtime - not a rigid schedule) and that has always worked really well for us. But at the 8 week mark DDs bedtime routine started at 9.30ish and we were all in bed by 10! Then as she got older we just started edging it back guided by when she got tired in the evening, now at 7 months she is down by 6.30-7pm. The best advice I read though was to play around with different things and figure out what worked well for your baby and you - much like adults they're all individual. Just as some of people need a soothing bath and a nice cup of tea to wind down for bed, others like a good book and a glass (or 3) of wine..... the books all suggest the standard bath, book, boob/bottle, bed formula but your little one might be more techno music and yoga ball bouncing....

Techno music
I'm not convinced about daily baths tbh, surely it dries out their skin? Plus it's a bit of a faff.