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8 week old bath time/bedtime chaos

84 replies

dan220282 · 20/07/2017 19:09

Hello everyone. New user, long time lurker, looking for help please

First time dad, we need some help/advice and Im sure you've been asked this millions of times. We have an 8 week old little boy, who, during the day is good as gold, now, on our HV advice we started creating a "wind down" room, so darker room, no noise etc..and we take him here after his bath. This is normally between 6-7pm

Now he loves his baths sits there chilled as nothing splashing etc..we take him out into his nursery to get hime changed, as soon as we start putting his baby grow on him he starts to get restless, like he knows what is coming, we take him into our room where its dark with all intents and purposes to read him a story, give him some milk and let him drift off. Erm no.

Every.single.night for the past week, he just cries. And cries. And cries. and then as if by magic he'll stop crying after 25-30 minutes and go to sleep.

We are going out of our mind trying to work out what to do. Any help greatly appreciated.

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crazycatlady5 · 21/09/2017 20:40

Wouldn't worry about it I'm sure it'll pass ☺️ Give it a few days

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dan220282 · 21/09/2017 18:48

Hi thanks crazycatlady. Love your username. He is still on formula. Had a cold about 2 weeks ago. And we "think" is in the early stages of teething. So i dunno tbh

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crazycatlady5 · 21/09/2017 16:01

Oh just seen the update. Green poo is usually a sign of teething, illness or dairy intolerance.

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crazycatlady5 · 21/09/2017 15:59

At 8 weeks mine was dozing downstairs and would go to sleep for the night when I went to bed at about 11. Really no need to have a routine at this young age. Enjoy bath time and don't worry about the rest of it x

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dan220282 · 21/09/2017 12:04

Hi everyone. Just an update So we're now 17 weeks old and everything is amazing. He uas a routine. He still screams after his bath😂 it couldn't be better. Thankyou for all the advice.

New question. His poop has gone green. And we know why. He isnt eating solids. Isnt poorly. Is acting normally nice and happy. Anything to worry about?

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Oly5 · 24/07/2017 19:50

Yes to the poster who said self-soothing and teaching a child no-one will come if they cry is NOT the same thing. All kids learn to self settle at some point (even if they're 2!). The other one is a deliberate (and cruel in my opinion) intervention

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wintertravel1980 · 23/07/2017 19:36

I remember reading a post about using an exercise ball for settling. Parents ended up sleep training - the sleep association became unsustainable.

scienceofmom.com/2012/02/06/the-cry-it-out-controversy-and-my-familys-sleep-story/

It is very obvious but ideally the baby should be taught to self-settle doing something on his/her own or with minimal parental intervention. I am lucky that my DD picked a reasonably simple manouver but... to connect sleep cycles, she needs space and she needs to be able to roll on her side. As a result, she only naps for 40-45 min (max) in the pram or in the car seat. Gone are the days when I was able to go out for long lunches/walks with my DD sleeping peacefully in the pram. If I go out, I know my DD will be awake in 45 minutes no matter what so I have to plan around it. If I am out during her lunch time nap (which usually lasts 2.5 hours in the cot with me waking her up), she gets really miserable. It is manageable and I am not complaining but still... how did my nephew manage that thumb sucking?:)

My DD is PFB so we do daily baths followed by a massage. Her skin is fine - we use vegetable oil to moisturise it (HV advice:)) and she has never had a nappy rash/dry skin until she started teething. I agree it is a bit of faff but both DD and I kind of like it:).

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SlackerMum1 · 23/07/2017 19:00

Not one I made up.... Grin A mate's baby was mesmerised by it.... bath, bottle, bit of bouncing and techno and was out like a light!

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FATEdestiny · 23/07/2017 18:59

I used to do daily baths with DC1 and DC2, I had the luxury of time back then. DC3 and DC4 less so, too much faff in an already busy household. Little ones bedtime often clashes with taking/collecting from various sporting or extra curricular things for the bigger ones, so no longer have the luxury of time.

DC4 is always washed (she's currently 2 and a half), but baths can be as little as once a week.

I can see the benefit of daily baths as part of wind-down, but evidently not absolutely necessary.

From being downstairs and anouncing "it's bedtime", my 2 year old can be in the cot asleep in as little as 10 minutes. Usually we allow 15-20 mins for her teeth, bedtime story and kisses though.

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NameChange30 · 23/07/2017 18:41

Techno music Grin
I'm not convinced about daily baths tbh, surely it dries out their skin? Plus it's a bit of a faff.

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SlackerMum1 · 23/07/2017 18:30

We had a bedtime routine by this age - one that has stayed the same more or less since (by 'routine'I definitely mean doing familiar comforting things around the same time every day to differentiate daytime and bedtime - not a rigid schedule) and that has always worked really well for us. But at the 8 week mark DDs bedtime routine started at 9.30ish and we were all in bed by 10! Then as she got older we just started edging it back guided by when she got tired in the evening, now at 7 months she is down by 6.30-7pm. The best advice I read though was to play around with different things and figure out what worked well for your baby and you - much like adults they're all individual. Just as some of people need a soothing bath and a nice cup of tea to wind down for bed, others like a good book and a glass (or 3) of wine..... the books all suggest the standard bath, book, boob/bottle, bed formula but your little one might be more techno music and yoga ball bouncing.... Smile

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wintertravel1980 · 23/07/2017 13:15

Shushing/patting/being really boring actually encouraged my DD to find her own independent way to self-soothe. She now rolls on her side, arches her back and throws her head back in a particular way (she was doing it when my DH and I shushed/patted her). It puts her to sleep in minutes. She stopped needing my help at 12 weeks and at week 10 she only woke up ever other night. At week 8, however, it was hell (I should have used a dummy!).

Shushing/patting does not usually work with older babies but it might be very useful with newborns.

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Extua · 23/07/2017 13:04

Wintertravel I'd argue that's not really self settling/self soothing though. It's supporting baby so they feel secure and able to sleep Smile

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Extua · 23/07/2017 13:02

It's not important to teach babies to self soothe as soon as possible. Their brains simply aren't developed enough to learn this skill - namely emotional regulation. Jeez, plenty of adults can't manage to regulate their emotions. It is possible to teach a baby there is no point crying as no one will come, so go to sleep. It's not the same thing though.

evolutionaryparenting.com/distress-self-soothing-and-extinction-sleep-training/

sarahockwell-smith.com/2014/06/30/self-settling-what-really-happens-when-you-teach-a-baby-to-self-soothe-to-sleep/

I can recommend Sarah Ockwell-Smith's 'Gentle Sleep Book' for tips on routine and promoting good night time sleep - no leaving to cry or teaching baby you won't be there necessary. Really worth a read with loads of practical advice and info on normal baby (and human) sleep x

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wintertravel1980 · 23/07/2017 13:01

Teaching a baby to self-settle does not equal leaving a baby to cry. What it usually means with young babies (under 3-4 months) is shushing/patting, picking the baby up/putting down and being really, really, REALLY boring. It takes time and effort but it works for quite a few parents (including me).

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yoyopoppop · 23/07/2017 12:59

I really don't think you can teach them to self soothe at 12 weeks either, you can't really teach them anything at that age! Please enjoy the cuddles.

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Extua · 23/07/2017 12:57

It's never bad to teach a baby that when he cries, mummy or daddy will pick him up. You are teaching him he can be absolutely secure that his caregivers are there when he needs them. This in turn will allow him to be securely attached, and eventually much more independent as the world won't be so scary because he has learnt that mummy and daddy are there when it is x

Your hv sounds a bit twatty. Generally if advice makes you uncomfortable/suggests you to do something you can't bear, it's not advice worth following.

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yoyopoppop · 23/07/2017 12:53

With my first baby I remember trying to instil a bed time routine at 8 weeks or so and just getting stressed out as it wasn't working. I think it's natural to want some form of control but tbh it's just too early for most babies. This time round I'm just enjoying the evening cuddles while my toddler is in bed and letting the baby tell me when he's ready for proper bedtime. At this age they basically sleep most of the time anyway!

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WhyTheHeckMe · 23/07/2017 12:52

Haha, great HV comment. My HV also told me that if my 3 months my baby couldn't self soothe I'd made a rod for my own back. I couldn't even get my baby to sleep anywhere but on my chest while breastfeeding let alone send himself off into a peaceful sleep in his cot by himself.
I spent months with ds asleep on my chest and as he was born in the winter and I was petrified of him suffocating he slept nice and snug while I froze every night. She still told me I was being very unsafe and made me sign a piece of paper to confirm she had told me that I was putting my baby's life in danger. That was a real high point Confused

Anyway he started sleeping through by himself when he was around 7/8 months and old enough to understand we hadn't abandoned him! 12 weeks is quite laughable.

Please don't trust every word they say. Like pp have said if your baby is not the kind who will happily be put down and doze off please don't force that upon them yet. The time will come, but they've been on the planet for a matter of weeks and right now they just need to know they're loved and secure.

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wintertravel1980 · 23/07/2017 12:52

Experienced parents on the "Sleep" forum might know quite a bit about baby sleep problems but this experience might not apply to an average baby. There are many babies out there who sleep well, who are able to self-settle at an early age and whose parents therefore do not read this forum. There is a reasonable chance Dan's baby may be "easy" and the HV might be seeing quite a few "easy babies".

It is pretty much a proven fact that babies cannot self-settle without comfort but this comfort does not have to come from parents. My nephew (who is now 7) learnt to suck his thumb in the womb. As soon as he got minimal hand coordination skills, he was able to put himself to sleep within minutes. He could not grab anything, he was probably not even sure his hands were part of his body but he could surely find his thumb. My sister had never understood what all the fuss with baby sleep is about until she had baby number 2. Other babies somehow manage to get comfort by sucking on edges of their sleeping bags or from licking their sheets (I had those in my NCT group). Babies can be very creative and some of these self-settling habits may come naturally.

In any case, good luck to OP!

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LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 23/07/2017 12:41

Not all HVs know their stuff when it comes to babies. Many of them base it on 'the books' or even their own children - if you asked 10 different HVs the same questions about things like sleep I bet you'd get 10 different answers.

But you've shown on this thread that you know exactly what to do for your baby - ask around for advice, whether that's books, MN or the HV. Try something out. If it works, great, if it doesn't, try something else. Just keep doing that, but with your own instincts at the forefront and you'll be fine. And remember that hard and fast rules don't really work with babies... Self soothing at 12 weeks might have been great for your friend's baby (who sounds like she thrived on routine) but it may not work for your baby, who is a unique little person with their own style of doing things.

Essentially, your baby hasn't read the books Grin

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FATEdestiny · 23/07/2017 12:25

Good luck with your new baby Dan.

This coming year will probably be one of the steepest learning curve you'll ever experience. Enjoy the journey. Smile

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NameChange30 · 23/07/2017 12:17

"After all she should know more than us."

Nope. Our HV hasn't got a clue. And I haven't heard good things about HVs in general.

Tbh I think experienced parents (such as those posting on this thread) know a lot more than the average HV about babies.

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Migraleve · 23/07/2017 12:16

Our HV seems lovely and of course we take her advice when she gives it.

The best advice anyone could ever give a new parent is to listen to your baby. If they need a cuddle to get to sleep then that's what you give.

I'm not sure why you seem to have given your HV such high status, but if she is advising sleep training at 13 weeks then she is an arse.

Read the books. Ask people - both professional and personal. Remain open minded.

The person who knows best about what your baby needs is YOU

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DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 23/07/2017 11:46

After all she should know more than us

Don't presume that.

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