Does this count as crying it out? Other suggestions?

[7thInningStretch]

DD is 8 months old and screams herself to sleep every night from anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour. She used to feed to sleep and that was fine but it's just stopped working. She wants me to walk with her but my back is buggered and I just can't do it for that long. I'm holding her and shushing and patting but she's so upset. She's just sobbing. Any ideas?

It's not CIO if you are there holding her.

Sometimes all the shushing and patting can be counterproductive and what they really need is a dark, quiet room. Have you tried just putting her in her bed and leaving? Just to see if she will settle? I would try this, leave her for five minutes and see what happens. If she falls asleep....problem solved. If she isn't asleep, but has calmed down/is just whining she's probably falling asleep so leave her a bit longer. If she's hysterical....it hasn't worked, go in and pick her up. You can try this with the addition of a white noise app if it doesn't work first time.

It could be that she is overtired. Maybe try re-jigging daytime sleeps or an earlier bedtime.

Or try a bouncer or rocking her in the buggy if she needs the movement to get her to sleep.

Does she have a dummy?

What happens if your partner tries? After several weeks of increasingly difficult nights with my previously fed-to-sleep 9 month old we've discovered she'll drift off in 15 minutes if DH sits with her quietly. She screams for me - presumably for boob, but I can't get her to stay asleep that way anymore.

Might not help, but worth a try!

Its not cry it out because you are there trying to comfort baby.

Have you tried a dummy? It's kit going to be a magic wand at this stage, but should help with the crying and provide an independant way to comfort suck.

kit=not

May I suggest one of these.

www.amazon.co.uk/Sound-relaxation-machine-wellcare-naturcare-x/dp/B00721JVFU?tag=mumsnetforum-21

White noise / Brook switches our LO off like a light!

I own no less than 15 dummies. I brought various ones to the hospital. All rejected despite months of trying. She's slightly better for DH but not much. I think he's just stronger so can hang on tighter. If I pop her in the cot and walk off she's hysterical almost instantly. I could try rocking the buggy but I'm worried about being able to transfer her without waking her. I just don't know why she gets so upset? We've never left her to cry. I come running whenever she squeaks. She still feeds to sleep for the first nap of the day then the second is in the car on the school run.

She gets up at 6-7
Nap 1 usually at 9 for 1.5h
Nap 2 at 2:30 for 45 min
Asleep for the night no earlier than 9!

Surely that's no enough total sleep? But if I try bedtime earlier it's hours and hours of her rolling around/crawling etc before the screaming starts!

And now she won't feed to sleep for the morning nap......what is going on?

Are you wanting to carry on feeding to sleep? Because the infant feeding board would be a good place to post on advise to overcome a feeding strike.

Then you can continue to attachment parent and feed to sleep.

If you want to stop feeding to sleep, it's likely to take a lot of crying, a lot of hard work, time and a lot of determination.

I wouldn't just put her in the cot and walk away. She needs to learn ways to calm herself first. She won't learn that just by being left to scream, you need to actively teach her.

I would set the cot up next to my bed, if that's possible. Then you can lie on your bed and be eye-to-eye. Eye contact is great for non verbal reassurance. Then settle in. Out baby in the cot, lean your arm over the side of the cot and keep it firmly on baby's chest/back/side (depending on position).

Keep your hand there for reassurance constantly until fully asleep. The process of getting to sleep won't be easy though. I'd pat, stroke, tickle, shush.

Dummy reinsert as needed to allow for comfort sucking (although a hysterical baby is never going to take a dummy, it is better used once calming down). Then just be patient, caring, compassionate and wait. It will get easier in time.

Regarding your daytime naps, I'd try and make the morning nap the shorter one and the afternoon nap longer, if extending the afternoon nap is impossible. Two longer naps would be better.

Thanks for your suggestions FATE. Her cot is already beside our bed. She will sit and play in it for a bit and she sleeps the first part of the night in it. I don't even really know what attachment parenting is? I just did what worked and now it's not working. I'd be happy to feed her to sleep if she would actually do it. She's not on a nursing strike. She still feeds she just doesn't sleep. She feeds then cries hysterically.

She can sit up/crawl and pull up. Do I just keep lying her down and trying to place a hand on her? I just don't want her to be hysterical. I don't really care how we get there.

I would try just putting her in the cot, once. She will be hysterical immediately, but what you need to find out is what happens next. Some babies do a 30/60 second fury scream and then fall straight to sleep. If she's crying for up to 60 minutes every night, five minutes of crying will do her no harm.

The only other thing I would suggest is working on a longer, earlier sleep in the middle of the day. I would limit the earlier sleep to 45 minutes/an hour. Hopefully, she'll be tired a bit earlier and you can try and get her down for a nap at 1pm. Rock her in the buggy/take her for a walk if that's easier. Hopefully, she'll sleep longer because she won't be disturbed by arriving at school/home. She should then be up at 3pm. Sleep breeds sleep, so hopefully a good daytime sleep will lead to an easier evening. I'd aim to have her in bed by 8pm.

Does she have a good bedtime routine? Bath/story etc. to help her wind down.

Do try the white noise app too.

We have a white noise machine as it's fairly noisy where we live. My problem is that I have to leave at 2:30 to do the school run. This morning she was hysterical for 45 minutes from 9-9:45 while I tried to get her nap. She's rubbing her eyes and giving all the signs that's she tired. She finally fell asleep at 10. She will now sleep until 11 most likely which means she won't be tired enough for another nap until 2:30 when we leave. I'm wondering if I should just try to keep her up in the morning and transition to one big nap starting at maybe 11?

That's what I would do if she's fighting the morning nap. Try and feed her before she sleeps so she doesn't wake up because she's hungry. Maybe she could do 11-1pm, which means she should be in bed by 7pm latest (to avoid being overtired).

Have you tried the 234 nap routine.

After first waking you set a timer for 2 hours. When the timer goes off you put them down for a nap.

After that nap you set the timer for 3 hours. Again nap.

Final timer is 4 hours. Then it's bed. ( I set mine for 3:30 to five time for bath).

The idea is they are just the right amount of tired to go down easily.

DS has been doing this for a fortnight and has been sleeping through with only one wake up for milk. Before it was every 90 mins.

If we are out at naptome he sleeps in his buggy/ car seat.

I wouldn't move to 1 nap at 8 months old. I think 6h is a massive, massive awake time. My 2 year old can only just manage a 6h awake time.

Although possibly a 10.30am or 11am nap
and then a 3pm or 3.30pm (after the school run) nap might work. Possibly mean a later bedtime though.

8 months is very very young for nap .

Can you try 10-11 nap.
3:30-4:30/5 nap and 7:30/8:30 bedtime ?

She's currently doing two naps but the last nap ends somewhere on the school run between 3-3:30. She then stays up until at least 9! I've tried early and she's just not tired. I'd hesitate to let her sleep past 3:30 as bedtime is already so late. Some evenings it's 10 before she's down.

Babies who are over-tired take on a 'wired, wide awake' look. The more over tired baby is, the harder baby will find it to get to slerp.

So rather than assume the problem is she's not tired, the opposite is more likely. The most probable read on for the difficult you have getting baby to sleep early is because baby is over tired and has been awake too long.

Right. So today she napped 10-12.....and is still awake at 7:20 in the evening! I took her out in the buggy and walked for a good hour and half from 3:30-5. I put the hood down and put the white noise on my phone. Nothing. I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

8 months is young to drop down to one sleep a day, but if that is her natural rhythm then go with it. There is absolutely no value in putting her and you through the stress of trying to make her sleep because most babies of that age sleep twice during the day. She isn't most babies. She's your baby.

See how bedtime goes tonight.

If it's better, then stick with the one sleep in the middle of the day. It's absolutely fine.

I would try and get the one sleep a bit more into the middle of the day if you can. Just by slowly moving it back, 10 or 15 minutes every few days so she doesn't get overtired, but is eventually sleeping 12-2pm or something like that.

To be honest we had a similar patch when crawling/ standing in cot started. It was pretty grim- every wake up (sometimes hourly) she would ping awake and stand immediately.
It took a lot of sitting next to cot, returning her to lying down, patting to keep her lying down.
The big break through came when we had a few days away and used a travel cot, which meant she couldn't use bars to pull up.
It did get better- I gave up with cot naps for a couple weeks- pushchair/ car.
We came out the other side. As suddenly as it got awful, it got better again. I think trying to maintain habits you want to keep- the important ones- and roll with the rest.

still awake at 7:20 in the evening

Put her to bed!

The screaming and battles you mention in the op are because baby is over tired when going to bed.

Are you waiting for some specific 'tell' before putying her to bed? What is making you wait?

She was in bed (our bed with me in it)....awake and screaming. I started trying at 6:30 thinking she'd be tired given she'd only had one nap. She's just given in now at 8! I started giving her formula at night for the last feed and I wonder if it's bothering her stomach?

I haven't been waiting for anything. We go up every evening at about 6:30 - do the bedtime routine but she wasn't dropping off until 9 most nights and it was driving me mad. I have older kids as well and it's just not practical.

Well 8pm is an improvement at least.

I do think that she could be one of those babies who fights sleep because she's too interested in what's going on. So, you being there to comfort her is actually what's keeping her awake. She sounds very alert!