Questions on CC (controlled crying) - please help

[user1498908155]

Hi Ladies, please please help me

I have a 6 month old boy. He was a champion sleeper till 3 months and then the 4 month regression hit us super hard. I tried all the no-cry sleep techniques but nothing seemed to work. Lately he has been up about 10 times between 8 pm and 6 am. I am like a walking zombie with no energy for anything, and sometimes physically hurting myself in frustration. The day it went to 12 times two days in a row I decided to try CC (disclaimer: if you dont agree with CC, please stay away, I dont want anyone to use this thread to bash me, the method or other moms who are for CC). I have now been doing CC for 2 days but have 2 questions:

1. I am doing CC only for nighttime as I read in few places that I can do it one by one for nighttime and then for naps (for variety of reasons I cant do CC during day for now, and he naps 3-4 hrs across 3 naps during the days). However am not sure if that will confuse my baby as to why mommy is lovingly rocking/feeding me during the day and leaving me to cry at night. Has any of you tried this? any opinions or suggestions?

1. First night went fine with 20 mins crying at bedtime and couple of moanings/short crying at night. Second night started well with 15 mins crying at bedtime and again couple of moanings overnight, but suddenly at 5 am he went hysterical and started to scream. after he cried for 40 mins DH picked him up as we set 30 mins crying threshold for ourselves. Do you think this has undone all my efforts for last two nights or I still have hope? has anyone experienced anything similar? any tips?

Thanks a ton!, and sorry for a long post
from an exhausted mommy

I'm pro-CC (not CIO) but not until at least nine months. Six months is just too young for CC. Talk to your HV.

Fucking hell. Way to go, everyone.

A mum who is self-harming due to sleep deprivation asks for support and advice and gets an absolute roasting and told she is the creepiest, evilest woman around for wanting to find a way to help everyone get more sleep.

Maybe CC won't work for this baby. Maybe he needs PUPD or gradual retreat or something else.

But just being told to suck it up and being told what she has been told on this thread?

Maybe she can't co-sleep. Maybe she has to drive places. Maybe what worked in your life won't work for her, ever considered that?

Ever thought about the correlation between the rise in PND and the message that woman are supposed to turn themselves into sleepless, utterly subservient milk and sleep machines for the first year in a society where there is sadly a lot less support on the doorstep from family?

Sometimes I'm truly ashamed of what I read on MN.

Creepiest = cruellest

This is not the place to project your feelings or get unpleasant. It's someone else's thread. Start your own if you feel so strongly

So much for sisterhood......

I've seen titty do this a lot .
I think she sounds like a nasty judgmental women tbh

Just a few comments on the the ISIS (Infant Sleep Information Source) website which has been mentioned here a few times:

1. ISIS clearly favours attachment parenting and emphasises research supporting this approach. It would have been fine, had this message been made clear on the homepage. Unfortunately, it is not - ISIS tries to present inself as independent and objective website.

1. Specifically on Controlled Crying - the latest study ISIS refers to is Middlemiss et al 2012. The results can be interpreted in a number of different ways, however, ISIS makes a conclusion that "infants who learn to 'self-sooth' are in fact learning to 'give-up' ". This is not obvious from the study inself.

1. ISIS website does not mention the two most recent studies (2016 - Flinders University of Adelaide, 2013 - Temple University, Marsha Weinraub):

www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-25/controlled-crying-babies-not-harmful-flinders-uni-study-finds/7443878
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130102161811.htm

Both of these studies appear to support the hypothesis that controlled crying is not emotionally harmful for babies. However, ISIS chooses to ignore them and instead focuses on outdated research.

I am not sure I can advise the OP on whether CC will work for her baby, however I would definitely not rely on ISIS information as the ultimate truth.

delila, Titty, please read the disclaimer from my original post and dont bother to write anything on this thread please. I could have said this much less politely but here I am saying with a "please"
Last thing I need right now is a lesson on "morals" from you guys

Winter, you're right about not being able to rely on ISIS (or any one source) as the ultimate truth.

It's something that's very difficult to get a definate answer on, all you can do is read as much as you can and make an informed decision based on the information available to you.

This is an interesting summary of that study you linked to, showing it's not quite as clear cut as the media makes out but then no research is completely clear.

www.happyfamilies.com.au/blog/controlled-crying-in-depth-assessment-of-a-recent-study/

OP, we used Supernanny's controlled crying at 6mo with success, he never got very upset and it only took a few nights.

I don't know whether it would work for your baby but there are a variety of methods you can use, and hopefully one of them will help you get more sleep.

User is he in any sort of feeding routine? I'm wondering if you need to up his day feeds, let him feed for longer during the day? Is he having a growth spurt? This might be making things more difficult. Could you express and your DH give him a bottle or do a top up feed?

Has he been looked at for reflux? Babies with silent reflux will wake not just because they are hungry but to sooth the pain of the burning. CC will take ages because they are fighting pain. Maybe worth a trip to the doctor to see if Ranitidine could help. My first had awful silent reflux and it was pure and utter hell. I was so sleep deprived. I didn't bond with him at all. It was torture. You absolutely have my sympathy. I'd also try giving him some formula and seeing if he goes longer. You've made it to six months ebf and that's the most important milestone. Using a bottle will mean it doesn't have to be you who settles him either at night so you can get bigger blocks of sleep.

You have a problem and you're looking for solutions. That alone makes you a good mum. CC is controversial and the data isn't by any means conclusive and by the very nature of it never will be. Ignore those who come only to flame you. Keep looking for solutions. You will find one.

Sleep deprivation is so hard user, I really feel for you. My DS was similar at 6 months as he was still taking on a lot of his daily calories through milk feeds at night (although I did co-sleep and feed lying down which helped maximise sleep for both of us). By 8 months he was on three good meals a day plus maybe 5 breastfeeds and he started sleeping through the night, or only waking once, as he was getting the vast majority of his calories during the day. I also think it's partially a developmental thing as by 10 months he would sometimes half-wake but settle himself back to sleep without intervention. I know it's so hard but there will be light at the end of the tunnel. Just be as kind to yourself as you can in the meantime.

When I think a baby is being treated cruelly I won't "stay away" i honestly could cry for your baby.
Yes other people have said to leave a baby to "only" cry for a few minutes but you've said you'll set it at 30 minutes. Half an hour of a baby sobbing for help.
I'm not "mum bashing " I'm not against a "sisterhood" I am against a baby being treated this way.
My daughter slept dreadfully , if I had to go and deal with my son though and she was crying, even for a few minutes would result on her getting hysterical. I could not face leaving my child on her own to cry when she needs me. But you know what op? Of you want to put yourself above an innocent baby then go for it.

delila, I dont think I need to be polite with you or other people from your gang anymore. Its my baby and I will do whatever I want, you can go and kiss your a**, or indeed cry for my baby if you feel like. From now on I am going to completely ignore you because I REALLY REALLY DONT CARE, you feel free to shout how much ever you want

My other lovely ladies, thank you so much for your advice and support. i really appreciate. Based on all your suggestions I am going to wait for couple more months and then try again when he is grown up a bit. Also, can you please all ignore delila, titty and likes. There is no point getting into an argument with them, and I think the more we react the more they will feel successful in their mission. I am almost dead right now from sleep deprivation but still strong enough to not be impacted by such people/comments... xxx

Good luck User. It WILL get better x

If a mother was at the point of self harming or PND because she was desperately struggling to establish breastfeeding, we would happily (and rightly so) encourage her to use formula even though there is evidence that breastfeeding is better adapted to baby. Happy mum means happy baby and baby being fed appropriate milk is the most important factor. If someone came on here and made her feel guilty for not trying hard enough with breastfeeding they would be rightly flamed for it.

In this case, a mother is self harming due to sleep deprivation and using a method of sleep training. Yes, some may not agree with the method but there is absolutely no scientific evidence to indicate it causes any harm to the baby (raised cortisol levels are not an indicator of harm, cortisol is released in a number of situations, not just stress). For this reason, CC is not cruel. Those of you making her feel guilty with your self-righteousness should be ashamed of yourselves. Co-sleeping does not work for all, some people have to drive and others have to be alert and awake to do their job (life or death decisions, heavy machinery). Some people cope better with sleep deprivation than others and once again, happy mum means happy baby. Babies' brains are developing and to maximise their development, they need restful sleep. There is nothing wrong with finding a solution to teach your baby how to go to sleep.

Delila, if you are so against child cruelty, why don't you volunteer and help charities fight real child cruelty - the kind that is proven to have long term consequences for children such as those exposed to domestic violence etc - instead of spreading nastiness on here?

I say this as someone who has sleep trained using PU/PD and struggles to let my baby cry (I am not against it in the right circumstances).

Good luck OP

OP I think you've made the right decision in waiting a couple of months - in my experience DS will be much more receptive to sleep training at that age, when weaning is established.

In the meantime please talk to your HV or GP about what support there is available for you. Do you have a partner or any family or friends around?

Those saying OP should just deal with the sleep deprivation and that it's part and parcel of having a baby have clearly never been to the depths of desperation

Peace yes I have
Riddles i already do.
Op I'm glad you've decided to stop it for now atleast. I've been there (my youngest is 12months old) and I do know how shattering it is.

Titty and Delila you are dispicable and so completely unempatahatic it astonishes me. you may have different views than the OPs but there are nicer ways to express your opinions than to totally bash someone who is reaching out for help in desperation. Can't you see that?

OP I echo the above post on getting him checked for silent reflux - it was a real problem for us. We used CC on our 6 month and now he's sleeping through he is SO much happier during the day - he wakes smiling and doesn't stop all day, where as previously he had been so tired from the uninterrupted sleep he had been miserable all day. It has changed all our lives.

Please please ignore the people who have nothing better to do than try and inflate their sense of self by squashing others.

Hey OP, de-lurking to say good luck on future sleep endeavours. We had all sorts of strategies to get our kid to sleep. All of them involved crying of some sort! Including breastfeeding / rocking to sleep (waking up & going bananas when I had the temerity to put her down & back to square one). My point is some babies are tricky & crying of some sort is inevitable. Friends that sleep trained their babies out of desperation remain devoted parents of very happy children. Good luck to you in getting some sleep! Ps. I think you're right in not engaging the nay sayers. Really hard to bite my tongue however!

Some vile women in here who should be ashamed of themselves. But just remember OP that they may like to play the great keyboard warrior game to try and feel a bit better about thenselves but guaranteed it is just their mumsnet fake persona. Their real lives will be far from the image they portray online! You do what you need to do for the best of your family and on your behalf I'll end by telling the opinionated bitches to ram it up their arses :)

Please ignore anyone on this thread who suggests you ditch CC OP. Your baby, your choice.

I did CC, stretching a 5 min gap to 15 mins for daytime naps x 3 over the course of 3 days and it had a knock on effect for night time as I think DS just felt happy settling himself in his cot and didn't need me there by day 3.

I was at the end of my rope and my husband was due to travel so we took it in turns (going in for cuddles and putting down) before his trip. I was also EBF and DS was 5 months at the time. (I tried at 3 months but couldn't handle the crying, somehow he seemed more robust at 5 months).

Not sure this helps, of course you could try different methods on CC but for me I found staying in the room made it worse.

Hang in there, you are not damaging your child. Hope it doesn't last too much longer - be as consistent as you can.