Questions on CC (controlled crying) - please help

[user1498908155]

Hi Ladies, please please help me

I have a 6 month old boy. He was a champion sleeper till 3 months and then the 4 month regression hit us super hard. I tried all the no-cry sleep techniques but nothing seemed to work. Lately he has been up about 10 times between 8 pm and 6 am. I am like a walking zombie with no energy for anything, and sometimes physically hurting myself in frustration. The day it went to 12 times two days in a row I decided to try CC (disclaimer: if you dont agree with CC, please stay away, I dont want anyone to use this thread to bash me, the method or other moms who are for CC). I have now been doing CC for 2 days but have 2 questions:

1. I am doing CC only for nighttime as I read in few places that I can do it one by one for nighttime and then for naps (for variety of reasons I cant do CC during day for now, and he naps 3-4 hrs across 3 naps during the days). However am not sure if that will confuse my baby as to why mommy is lovingly rocking/feeding me during the day and leaving me to cry at night. Has any of you tried this? any opinions or suggestions?

1. First night went fine with 20 mins crying at bedtime and couple of moanings/short crying at night. Second night started well with 15 mins crying at bedtime and again couple of moanings overnight, but suddenly at 5 am he went hysterical and started to scream. after he cried for 40 mins DH picked him up as we set 30 mins crying threshold for ourselves. Do you think this has undone all my efforts for last two nights or I still have hope? has anyone experienced anything similar? any tips?

Thanks a ton!, and sorry for a long post
from an exhausted mommy

I wish someone had said what Delia has Saud to Op, to me @4-5m when I did pick up-put down. It worked and quickly tho I remember three long sessions :( but I absolutely regret it now and regularly think of it 5y later but am glad at least I was with my ds throughout.

OR if you can co-sleeping really helped me with a bad sleeper for a long time but I can't do that anymore sadly

BTW, at 6 months I was caring for my DD 132 hours a week completely on my own (DH working away apart from 36 hours per week and no family within 5,000 miles). I was exclusively expressing - waking every 3 hours through the night to express whether DD woke or not. I was running a business and looking after 2 houses. I still didn't leave my baby to cry.

Perhaps you should be looking for other ways to cope rather than making your child carry the can.

mikado1 I have a similar regret many years later and think about it often. At the time I thought I was 'teaching' my baby to sleep and doing what was best for them but actually feel awful I sleep trained. I've read lots since then though and didn't do it with my other DC.

Op I was like you (again) 1.5 y ago... tbh it took a few months but my record 12 feeds a night didn't continue. Second time round I accepted it with plenty of moaning to anyone who'd listen and it finally passed/I got used to it/got to bed early. I know the he'll of sleep deprivation honestly, but you'll never regret going to your lo and comforting them. It is Normal.

There is evidence that sleep training (various methods) does work in the short term but not in the long term.
None of the studies that have been done have found an effect lasting 6 months or more after the sleep training methods was originally used, and found to 'improve' babies sleep. This means that the initial improvement, or 'benefit' of using the method disappeared, and outcomes were the same for the group of babies who had been 'sleep trained' as for those in the control group who had not
www.isisonline.org.uk/how_babies_sleep/sleep_training/research_evidence/

Taken from ISIS
A recent study ( Middlemiss et al ) demonstrated that mothers and babies undergoing a controlled-crying intervention started out with matching, synchronous, hormonal stress responses (babies cried at bed-time, their stress hormone levels increased, and their mothers' stress hormone levels also increased). After three days, babies had ceased to cry at night, and mothers' stress hormone levels dropped, however babies levels - despite the fact they were no longer crying - remained high. This suggests that the babies behaviour had adapted to being alone for sleep, but that their physiology had not. The response of the babies in this study lends support to the theory that babies who undergo sleep training via extinction may be learning to 'give up' rather than to 'settle' -- outwardly the two behaviours appear the same, but inwardly the babies physiology is very different. As well as being physically separated from their mothers, the sleep trained babies were no longer in physical synchrony with their mothers as their mutual stress response link (maintained by infant crying) had been broken.

Ditto LittleTwoFeet to all. I was brainwashed by the baby whidperer and it all sounded gentle which I wanted to be. In fact it made mine and I'm sure his, much harder. Op I took ds2 into bed around that age till 9m when a change was needed again.

What mikado1 says is so true, if you can accept the night feeds/find ways of coping, you'll get through it. You'll never regret knowing you were always there to comfort them.

Co-sleeping and feeding lying down can help.

Going to bed when they do and knowing even if you've got broken sleep, at least you're laying in bed for 12 hours or whatever and getting 12 hours of 'rest' (even if it doesn't feel v. restful).

Get DH to get up every morning with baby. You might only get an hour but that can make a massive difference.

Go to bed for baby's naps, again even if you don't sleep, just laying down resting can help.

The other thing you said is you're only feeding baby twice a night, if that's been for a while, baby could be waking up as they are hungry. A lot of breastfed babies feed a lot through the night at that age and often go through phases where they want to feed all the time.
I fed on every waking and they sort of cluster fed/fed maybe every hour from bed until maybe 11/12ish then had a good sleep. I think if I would have tried to settle without feeding, they would have ended up sleeping worse. Although I know it's hard not to think 'they can't want feeding AGAIN!'
I also think, they end up having a more restful sleep as they are not fully waking and have to be settled, you can just feed and get them to go back to sleep. They then learn to sleep better as sleep becomes something lovely and comforting to do, not something stressful.

Well it has worked for me, have a really happy, settled and well adjusted child who has slept through the the night since thanks. Now 2.5 and his great sleep habits are still going strong, don't think it has effected him negatively in anyway in fact it has only been positive for him and the entire household since. The OP didn't ask for your opinion on whether you agreed with it or not she has asked very specifically for help with CC.

Keep the dummy! It's a pain in the ass going a few times during the night in to reinsert it before they are old enough to do this themselves, but it's so easy when you do go in - just pop the dummy back in their mouth then everyone is straight beck to sleep!

Sleep training is brill!

Now 2.5 and his great sleep habits are still going strong, don't think it has effected him negatively in anyway in fact it has only been positive for him

So far.

I have a 15 year old who I went to every time he cried who co slept and who I comforted non stop and guess what he can't settle himself to fucking sleep. He's just gone up now asking me if I'll come up to check he's asleep before I go to sleep, he will also fall asleep with his music on as he can't self settle. He is NOT a happy child at bedtime. In contrast my 6 month old baby and 5 year old son will sleep from 7pm to 6am without any issues as I have learnt them to settle themselves to sleep.!!!!!

Op, I'm sure you're helped enormously by hearing about the heroics of other mums on here, just what you were after eh?!
I did cc with my eldest and can honestly say it was exactly the right thing for her and wouldn't change a thing so I am absolutely not judging you - however she was 20 months old at the time and had decided she didnt like bedtime. For me (and I honestly don't care what anyone else says or thinks) I wasn't prepared to have a toddler deciding when she was going to bed. She understood why we weren't getting her out of bed and giving her a cuddle and for me this made the extremely difficult job of hearing your baby cry a bit more bearable. Since then (and it only took 5 nights of crying - 40 mins, 20mins and 3x5 mins) she has gone to bed very well and slept through almost every night, illness, obviously excepting. My caveat to this is that my little one is now 15 months and I am up every night for around about 4-5 hours spread over anything from 4-8 get-ups. It's exhausting of course but I feel she's still too little to leave crying for any length of time at the moment. I may well do cc with her but just not yet, the understanding aspect of it was all important for me.
I'm sure you are doing your best for your child and everyone's ideas and opinions are different, I hope you have better nights ahead.

My 6 year old puts herself to bed and stays there

the vast majority of nights until morning.

She learned to self settle at the right time for her, not when it was most convenient to me.

40andFat I have the opposite, my eldest who I 'sleep trained' and did all the self settling teaching thing with is the worst sleeper out of them all. (Not necessarily a bad sleeper but definately the worst one).

Younger two who co-slept, etc, no sleep training, learned to self settle themselves of their own accord when they were developmentally ready are far better sleepers.

All purely anecdotal though.

To be fair maybe my 15yr old would have always been a crap sleeper but I really don't think I helped him to learn properly how to get to sleep. He was a whiny mardy baby and I took the easier option.
With my other too I haven't done CC just followed a routine and from an early age and not gone to every little cry and just tried harder. I would have never left them if I thought they were hungry but to self settle I will leave them never till screaming point but 5-10 mins and they go back to sleep.

some of the responses on here are so infuriating. Well done Titty for flying to the moon and back on your own hot air and still not letting your baby cry. What happens if you're so sleep deprived you are a danger to drive? What about being so completely deprived of energy that you can't actually enjoy your child? Great that you can do all those super duper things and still not let your baby cry but have you ever considered that each person is, well, different?! That we all cope with stress and tiredness differently?

Absolutely fine to cope with the stress differently but not to "cope " to the detriment of your child's wellbeing.
My daughter is like the ops child and would not settle after 5 minutes of crying. There is no way I would leave my child to sob for 40 minutes whether I was stressed or exhausted. And I can say that because I've been there twice.

OP, whatever gets you through.

CC is about reassurance. You HAVE to be patient. Leave slightly longer gaps. It's kinder all round.

I used CC for DC1. He seems unscathed and is perfectly able to self-settle. But then he's doing his GCSEs next year and I can't see he was harmed in any way.

I have four DCs in five years. DC4 was fed on demand, co-sleeper, baby worn. At 9 years old she's still happiest when she's near me for comfort.

Other mothers making you feel like you are doing it all wrong, that you are 'cruel' aren't you. Maybe they can function on years of no sleep, bloody good for them.

Leave slightly longer gaps. It's kinder all round.

Longer than 30 mins? Who is that kind to, exactly?

Another fan of cc here, but I find they need to be well established on solids and have dropped any night feeds for it to work. Also echo getting rid of the dummy. Perhaps try again in a month or so, which I know is not what you want to hear. Xxx

No, a minute, two minutes...its gradual. Controlled if you like. Clues in the name.

Well done Titty for flying to the moon and back on your own hot air and still not letting your baby cry.

Thank you.

What happens if you're so sleep deprived you are a danger to drive?

Then don't fucking drive.

What about being so completely deprived of energy that you can't actually enjoy your child?

What's enjoyable about making them cry for prolonged periods of time?

Great that you can do all those super duper things and still not let your baby cry but have you ever considered that each person is, well, different?! That we all cope with stress and tiredness differently?

Stress is bad for adults. An adult inflicting stress on a small baby whose brain is developing and learning more than it will at any other time in that human's life? On what level does that make any sense at all?

The OP has a partner. There is no reason for her to be on her knees with tiredness. What's stopping her from resting throughout the day?

I love my sleep and struggle to do anything without it. I taught my DD to sleep by sleeping with her. Not by ignoring her.

No, a minute, two minutes...its gradual. Controlled if you like. Clues in the name.

Read the OP. She's set a 30 minute threshold and let her baby cry for 40 minutes. Romanian orphanages were kinder.