Help me! 7 week won't sleep

[january29]

Think I'm the one with the problem I'm so exhausted that I'm getting anxious because my baby doesn't nap much and will fight sleep for hours and then wake quickly. Then I'm too anxious to sleep because I know I'll need to be up again so soon. I've tried lots of things to get her to sleep but she'll fight it. She grunts and passes wind lots in her sleep and that wakes her so sleep never lasts for long. I'm so tired I can't see the wood for the trees. I know she needs more sleep and I can't seem to help her so feel rubbish about this too. All my friends have babies who just sleep what am I doing wrong. Help, when will she sleep better and for longer (4 or 5 hours I mean)

Hi tea!
Safe cosleeping works for her about 85% of the time (unless she's dramatically overtired and laying left tonne whilst feeding laying down just isn't good enough!!!)
Cosleeping doesn't work so well for me however. I only "rest" I don't go into proper deep sleep any more. I had her in with me/us a few times and fed to sleep in the first few weeks. My DH once woke me because my top arm (which I have no idea where to put) was resting on the baby's head/face. He also woke me because he thought I had started to fall forward on to her. I think I was too tired to have her in and now I just can't relax properly which is sad but I'm hoping will get better as she gets older. So until then she's in a Bednest side sleeper which is amazingly strong... it can take my weight as I lay in it next to her and then roll away

Your top arm should be above her head. So her head is at boob height, your too arm curls around her head (or your hand can rest under your head) and then you curl into a c around her with your legs. If you're in this position, you won't roll onto her! The BF link means you'll both be safe because women have evolved to protect their babies.

Space it's like tea said, and also a little like the recovery position if that makes more sense to you? I've definitely had more sleep since co sleeping more. We had a sleepyhead but she could never settle in it! The cat, however, loves it.

Thanks tea - we're much happier now we gave up the nonsense idea of having a bedtime routine for her! I just go with her flow, but make sure she has regular naps in day when she looks tired or starts getting cranky. She's sort of very loosely getting into a routine herself anyway so we'll see where that goes. I know one night she'll sleep longer than 2 hours and that will be a very happy night!

You are largely assuming the OP is the same size and shape as you tea. You maybe don't appreciate that no one position works for everyone. Boob size (amd droopiness) is a significant factor on bf position.

For example to feed from my "bottom boob", I lie flat on my back. To feed from my "top boob", I have to be lying slightly leaning away from baby.

Neither of these positions are sustainable or conducive to sleep.

This is because I've had four children, and my body has changed. I also have a mum friend with a current 9 month old. Said friend is (and always has been) very underweight and flat chested. She breastfeeds, we were chatting about night feeds. She was saying how unsafe feeding lying down was for her with a newborn. She explained that in order to latch baby, she had has to lean right over baby, so her top shoulder is over the top of baby. That's sooo dangerous with the risk of falling asleep. I can completely understand why she only ever say up to breastfeed.

I'd also be very weary about describing any cosleeping position as "you'll both be safe". While NHS and Lullaby Trust don't advise against cosleeping, they are very clear that the safest place for baby is on a seperate mattress to you, in the same room. While I'm not suggesting there is anything unsafe about breastfeeding (according to recommendations), neither would I give any impression that by evolution, your baby will therefore be safe. That's just not true. I'm not bf bashing. Just being particular about SIDS.

While I'm not suggesting there is anything unsafe about breastfeeding cosleeping (according to recommendations)...

The position that tea describes is safe, if positioned this way correctly you can't roll onto the baby. I'm not sure if everyone can feed like this (like you say different body shapes) but if you can it is a safe position. Anecdotally, my sister is VERY slim and flat chested and feeds in the position tea describes no problem. Not saying everyone can but just incase someone was reading with this body shape thinking they wouldn't be able to.
I think what tea meant with the 'both be safe' comment is that studies have shown that by breastfeeding your hormones help you to respond to baby in the night safely.

In the studies, bedsharing is perfectly safe providing you follow the guidelines. The SIDS from bedsharing are overwhelmingly with another risk factor present (not breastfed, baby placed on tummy, smoking, drinking, etc).
This explains it well.
kellymom.com/parenting/nighttime/cosleeping/

Obviously everyone has to make their own decision on what they feel is safest for their baby. Having a young baby is completely exhausting and I think even if you don't intend to bedshare, you should set up the bed safely just incase. At least then if you do end up bringing baby into bed in middle of the night through desperation, then you can do so the safest way possible. Some people have the risk of falling asleep sitting up feeding which is far more dangerous than lying in a safe position with baby.
Everyone's situation is different and you've just got to find what works best for you.

www.askdrsears.com/topics/health-concerns/sleep-problems/co-sleeping-yes-no-sometimes
This is interesting to read in relation to bed sharing.

Please don't perpetuate lies. It doesn't help the breastfeeding advocates or the cosleeping advocates. There are plenty enough good reasons for both without misquoting safety figures.

"In the studies, bedsharing is perfectly safe providing you follow the guidelines"

The opposite is true. Attached is from the Lullaby Trust Evidence Base (feel free to Google). The section on bedsharing and breastfeeding is worth reading too, for a non-biased view on the research.

Going back to the SpaceDinosaur who originally said cosleeping isnt working for her....

The bednest is great. You know that you can turn a normal cotbed into a cosleeper? You can remove one side off any cotbed and it will be sturdy 3-sided. Wedge it up to your bed, then you have a much bigger sidecar space than the Bednest.

You may be able to feed baby in the sidecar cot, extracting yourself afterwards. Or if not, lying in the cot and cudfling up to baby (in the cot) is much easier with a bigger space to cuddle into.

Thank you littledinaco - phrased and referenced much better than I did.

Fate Maybe not everybody can BF lying down in that position but they can all sleep in that position. And I always caveat any of my posts with 'following the safe co-sleeping guidelines'. There are also lots of things that the lullaby trust etc say against dummies and swaddling but these are heavily recommended by some posters. Each person needs to make their own decisions on these things but everybody has a right to know about all the options available. That's all I'm trying to offer.

My baby is also 7 weeks - I am lucky I that she sleeps ok at night but hates napping in the day. Things I've found that help:

Playing white noise - there is a 10 hour YouTube video we leave running over night

When you transfer them to their bed tuck them in tightly with a sheet up to their arm pits and their arms free and a blanket over. Alternatively a grobag so they don't notice the change in temp.

Taking her out in the push chair / sling during the day to get her to nap.

Don't compare their sleep to other babies, and just keep repeating that they will sleep eventually.

Oh and with the wind lots of tummy time during the day is meant to help. And gripe water .

dummies and swaddling

What are you even talking about?

Lullaby Trust recommends the use of dummies to lower SIDS risk.

For swaddled, like cosleeping, they neither advise for or against. They recognise with both swaddling and cosleeping that these carry risk, but that cultural factors are mitigated against these risks.

If you wish to start quoting SIDS recommendations, it's helpful to actually read the recommendations. Understanding then would be even better.

Post was for teaandbiscuitsforme

(Sorry TinyTickler, your posts weren't there when I started typing)

I have read them thanks. Hadn't properly read the evidence base before so thanks for pointing that out.

I was referring to the point with dummy use that 'it is important to ensure that a dummy is not forced on the infant'. Also interesting to note that they specifically include all daytime sleeps when they say an infant is safest in a cot or Moses basket to sleep - no mention at all that it is safe to nap in a bouncy chair, swing etc

I don't mean to be rude, as I'm sure you didn't, but my point still stands that there are different options and everybody makes their own decisions, weighing up the risks as they're relevant to their individual situation.

Back to where we started, to perpetuate the "you'll be safe" line when clearly thst is not true, I'd unhelpful.

However, offering help, support and suggestions on helping mothers cope with baby's sleep needs is exactly the purpose of the Sleep Board. Cosleeping is a part of that. As are suggestions for daytime naps. All good. However SIDS will be a large part of any convetsation on the Sleep board, by its nature. So suggesting something is great, staying it's safe when research does not support that is irresponsible.

You'll see me very regularly advocating dummies. I will tell people this loses SIDS risk.

You'll see me suggesting cosleeping for daytime naps. Or night time sleep. I wouldn't say "you'll be safe". If asked I'd say "here are the safety recommendations..." (or words to that effect). Exactly the same for swaddling, which I also often recommend.

You'll see me suggesting a bouncy chair for daytime naps. You will never find me saying it's perfectly safe, or words to that effect. Because recommendations suggest a flat (seperate) mattress for baby. Same goes for pushchair, sleepyhead, car seat etc etc etc. None are seperate, flat mattresses. So I would suggest them. I wouldn't say "you'll be safe".

This started because I took you to task on "you'll both be safe". I read this kind of thing often and always correct. It's not personal. I've read several of your posts over recent weeks, it's always useful to have a cosleeping, breastfeeding advocates around on the Sleep board. We have ElphabaElephant who posts occasionally on the subject. I have huge respect for that attachment parenting point of view on baby sleep. Your posts and views are very similar.

I have lots of respect for your point of view teaandbiscuitsforme. The Attachment Parenting Ying to my Independant Settling Yang is necessary on here, for balance. That won't stop me pointing out when you are wrong.

Well I apologise for using those words if it makes it seem like I'm recklessly advocating co-sleeping. I understand what you're saying. In most of my posts I'm merely trying to give posters who sound a bit like I used to sound the confidence to follow their instincts if that suits them. But I'll watch how I phrase this!

Never been described as attachment parenting advocate before. Never would have thought that would be me pre-kids!

It might not be full-on attachment parenting, but I mean someone who favours breast feeding to sleep, long term cosleeping, holding baby for naps - all those kind of things.

I know they work and often suggest them. But they aren't my way of doing things, so I end up just playing lip-service amd basing suggestions on stuff I've read rather than first hand experience.

So if there is a mum who seems to favour that kind of route, it's useful to have some "experts" on the subject around. Like yourself.

Just as I know and acknowledge there are lots of natural cosleepers around and I wouldn't be negative about that choice. There are also lots of people who don't want to cosleep and/or want to actively encourage independant sleeping, I would hope the cosleeper here don't discourage that point of view either.

There is zero need for there to be an "us and them" ethos on the Sleep board. Point scoring doesn't help. Both ways to approach baby sleep are right. Plus many different approaches.

I have not at any point attempted to discredit or be sneery about your parenting views on sleep. I'd thank you to extend the same courtesy to me.

Fate I've also never said anything in response to your posts before. I agree with you and your advice in many cases and never post if it's something that I have absolutely no experience of. Your way is just not my way, as you have said. I'm not sure what in my last post suggests that I'm sneering at you? I'm laughing at myself and being the attachment parent - I just meant that I would never have said that it was going to be my style before my kids arrived. Sorry if I've offended .

No worries.

(The sneery remarks were those about actively perservering with not forcing the dummy, bouncy chair, swaddle and whatnot. Not your way. Definitely my way.)

Any way, we are derailing the thread. Friends?

Ha ha, definite derail. Apologies for my defensive response and we're all good?

Thank you everyone for the advice and the caring that you all clearly have :-)

How you doing January?
We did lots of long napping today. Well, she did... I'm hoping it will help tonight!

Hope you're having a good night space! My dd went to bed (after having a huge long cry and lots of cuddles) at 8, woke for long feed at 10 so fed her lying down where we both fell asleep until now Had to sit up for this feed as my back is killing! Hopefully she'll continue to have a good and peaceful night though.

Getting her down at midnight was a slight challenge. But we got there with no leaving to cry (despite my DM's "leave her for 5 min" advice), all calm, lots of cuddles...And she bloody slept from 12.30-4.30. I could run a marathon I feel so energised!!! 😁

Let's see if this luck knocks on to after this feed (yes, our feeds last a while, especially when during the change she manages to poo, then wee, then poo and THEN some in that split second she was sans nappy... it went EVERYWHERE 🙈)

My DS1 was a great sleeper until about 8 weeks, when all hell broke loose. He was behaving pretty much the same as your lo op. He had a LOT of "bottom burps". I found what worked for us was for me to feed him, then give him a nice long warm bath. The bath relaxed him enough to get rid of the gas build up. We also moved his legs around a bit to encourage release - raising his knees up to his tummy one at a time really worked! The more gas we got out, the better he slept. Hope this helps.

We had a great night - she only woke twice. I feel amazing, there is hope! She's 9 weeks old now. Think they have a developmental spurt at around 8 weeks plus vaccinations probably meant their sleep is all over the place (plus they're still very little).

I've been up since 4am. Feeding them napping then feeding. I'm consoling myself with the fact she's growing like a weed at the moment so needs the extra food!