Another sleep regression crisis

[gladders83]

Hi everyone, first-time dad to a 4-month old girl here. I wish my wife and I had been warned that sleep regression exists - we had no idea, and were completely unprepared!

My little girl started her regression in the first days of December '16 and there's no end in sight. Rather than the typical sleeping in two-hour spats, she's moved into a worse stage.

Currently, she simply refuses to nap during the daytime unless held. If held, she can sleep on you for upwards of an hour at a time. But the moment you put her down, guaranteed, she wakes up, no matter how deeply sleeping and no matter how frequently we persist in it.

She does manage to go to sleep for bedtime at about 8.30-9 every night following a bath, feed and stories (although not without an almighty fight beforehand), and that sleep usually lasts until about 1am. Then she wakes and my wife feeds, but by about 2.30am she wakes me up to take over.

So take over I do. I hold her on my left shoulder, as it's the only part of me that she can relax on, apparently - right shoulder and other positions just cause frenetic squirming, to the point at which I now have RSI in my left elbow from holding it in the same position for hours on end.

I hold her, and she dozes on my shoulder - ever so lightly - so that whenever I feel she may have finally gone back into deep sleep, TWITCH, no, she's still awake, but just lightly dozing.

That light dozing goes on for hours. She seems to never return to a deep sleep, so I end up staying awake for that whole time.

Tonight, my wife tried to give her a top up at 3.30am, and our baby proceeded to doze and stop nursing. We decided to change her nappy to wake her up, and she wets herself the second I remove the nappy, requiring a complete clothes change, which woke her up. Back on the boob, she refuses to feed.

So my wife needs to pump and I take baby into the living room to give her some space and I brace myself for another few hours of being awake. Baby is now fully awake and refusing to go down, and my wife is going to try co-sleeping, which basically means baby sleeps but my wife doesn't.

I get the assurances that this will pass, but it's absolutely exasperating. It's getting to the point where I entertain the idea of simply letting her wake up by leaving her alone so I can at least get some company, but I know that won't help at all. My wife is taking the worst brunt as she has to nurse, but while I can manage on little sleep my wife is super-dependent on decent sleep.

Help.

"attachment issues"

Attachment issues? She is 4minths old. She is completely and totally dependant on her parents for every single aspect of her well being, her comfort and every possible need she has - she is reliant on you for EVERYTHING.

These are not attachment issues. It's called being a parent.

I realise you are having a very hard time of it, but it's time to pull your Big Boy pants on here and just crack on. Baby does not need pick up put down. She needs YOU. Not because she has "attachment issues", but just because she needs her Mum and Dad for everything.

Your baby needs about 16-18 hours sleep in 24 hours. If you are struggling - consider how your baby is. Please don't make attempts to sleep train your baby who clearly sounds very distressed. You need to man up.

Rather than trying to make your baby got with your expectations, you need to start making changes that you might not be what you want or prefer, but are necessary for the needs of your baby.

"Rather than trying to make your baby got fit* with your expectations..."

As I said, it can take 6 weeks for the dairy to be fully gone. It needs to completely leave the mum's system, then the baby's. It took about 3 weeks for it to START improving for us. Also, Go back and get more or different reflux meds. There are lots of different types. Sleep in shifts and let the baby sleep in a carrier (strictly supervised), much better for your back than holding on your shoulder. My dd would only go outwards facing, screamed if put inwards.

Did you join the cmpa support group?

Well said (If a splash ummmm direct ) FATE

It might have been discussed before, but might putting her in a sling save your arm a little?

My DP has spinal stenosis with peripheral neuropathy and carpal tunnel as part of the symptoms- he finds holding DS (same age as yours) v difficult sometimes, but sling is okay ??

Hello OP. I hve been where you are now and it won't last forever. It does feel like it will, but it won't.

My baby at 4 months went from a fairly good sleeper to one who wouldn't sleep anywhere other than on me. What helped was very gradually getting her to settle in slightly different positions so that eventually she would sleep next to me with my arms round her on our bed. We did naps like this for months. It's limiting but if it's your only child and it works then it's do-able.

We used lots of sleep cues for bed and nap time: white noise, baby sleeping bag, dark room etc. We still use the sleep cues a year later and she now settles herself in the cot for the most part. I never thought I'd see the day.

I also wondered: If your wife can't co-sleep, perhaps you could try it? Wishing you all the very very best.

Forgot to say, my baby also had CMPA. Hope you see some improvement soon.

Yes yes FATE.

Please listen to her, OP.

Attachment issues?

Sleep training a 4 month old?

Yeah, that's not gonna work. You're just upsetting her.

I have a 4 month old. She wakes about 5/6 times a night. We were up for the day at 6.20 this morning, which means of course 1st nap of the day has just started now at 7.20.

I don't consider it a regression. I don't expect her to sleep more than 2 hours at a time. Many breastfed babies dont. It's the reason people end up giving formula!

I have a sidecar cot made up from one we had, with the side taken off. I feed to sleep every time. Then I slide back to my side. But still, two hours later on the dot, she wakes again. I wonder if you are expecting more sleep than is realistic. It's normal for 4 month old babies to only settle on the boob. It's normal for them to feed all night.

It's hellish, really. I'm so tired I had to change her nappy on the floor this morning as I couldn't stand up with exhaustion. But it's my second, not my first, and so I know it will pass.

I remember with my first trying pick up put down. You get desperate, you'll try anything! Of course it didn't work - it doesn't, in small babies.

My first had CMPA too. It takes more than a week to be eliminated by the way, I'm not sure who told you a week but thats bollocks.

I would try the sidecar cot and "co sleeping" at arms length. It's honestly the only thing helping me get any sleep at all. I latch on sitting up, lie down (sort of) in the sidecar cot with baby attached, and about 15 mins later I can detach using a wet finger and slide back.

Oh and I don't change nappies during the night unless it's a stinky one. I use the Pampers baby dry and they last all night. I'm not risking a full wake up unless it's a poo.

Could you try the sidecar set up?

Sorry OP just seen that you have been given ranitidine!

Still I would go to the GP and ask about weaning as the milk is still thin and so will come up a lot easier. Just because she isn't spitting up it doesn't necessarily mean the acid isn't still coming up into her oesophagus and causing her great pain

Excuse me, but I was informed that you could sleep-train from 4 months, I've known parents who have done and they insist their kids benefited from it. My stepsister did cry-it-out with her three children, although we thought that was extreme and opted for PU/PD as a compromise.

I get what you're saying about reflux but if she was in such pain surely she'd be miserable and crying whenever we put her down during the day? The fact that she's only grumpy when not held (doesn't matter which position, as long as she's held she's happy), and if she's awake but not tired she is happy, it just screams bad sleep habits rather than simply reflux to me.

And the 'attachment issues' was a simpler way of describing her tendency to want to stay held while sleeping. It wasn't a comment on her rightful wanting to stay close to her parents.

We can't fit a sidecar. It's not even possible physically to try.

I have tried sleeping on the floor with her with the heating on and she still dislikes it, as do both parents.

It's reflux. REFLUX.

how much zantac is she on and what is her weight. Even if letting a baby cry wasn't cruel, how is it going to help when you are in the same room listening to it? .
She needs to be held, get a sling and ride it out.

It's complete shit but doesn't last forever. She might need more zantac?? I know you are exhausted but we are trying to help you. I hope things improve soon.

She naps okay in the day now then? (At least that's something!) I was confused because in the original post you said she only sleeps when held in the day. If she goes down in the day now and you can get some sleep in, do that and make the most of it! At least you'll be able to function with a few naps if nothing else :/

I know sleep regressions can be horrendous for some parents but I've not yet heard of a baby that literally cannot be comforted by anything which is why I was sure it had to be some medical issue and reflux can be awful for babies obviously.

I honestly can't think of anything else to suggest that others or myself haven't. Would she sleep in he pram after a walk and you could leave her to nap for a while in the carrycot? Or a ride in the car? You'd think a sling would work if she wants her mom or dad but you said she's not keen on it if I remember?

If nothing the doctor is doing is helping then you'll have to keep going and insisting that something is wrong. It just doesn't sound like the typical sleep regression to me. Normally they have issues dropping off and they can be a nightmare to get off but this is the worst I've heard where nothing is comforting LO.

We have the Mothercare Apsley cot which is basically the smallest one on the market.

79 x 64.2 x 124 cm

It's squashed right up to the radiator and we still had to shove the bed over an inch.

So if you can't fit 64.2cm then it really is no go, but you might just fit it at a pinch. Worth a measure.

Sorry you're all having such a rough time.

Until he was around 8 weeks old my DS would only sleep in the sling or when being held. I understand this is extremely common for newborns but it doesn't make life easy for the parents who are at risk of doing something dangerous because they're so sleep-deprived.

For us, the most important thing was getting daytime sleep no matter how - at first this involved a sling, bouncy ball, constant jiggling, constant walking, and a dummy (holding it in until he took it). He seemed to wriggle and scream with pain whenever he was put down. Consequently he was strapped to me almost 24/7 and my shoulder, back and knees are now ruined. He would wake up when I sat down so I was almost constantly on the go. It was relentless. I just didn't understand what people on here meant when they talked about babies "going down for a nap in the day" or "my routine is this...". It felt like it would never happen but it did eventually.

What helped me at first was to get a swinging chair. The upright position and constant motion helped him settle. It took him a few attempts to take to it and I first had to leave my hand on him, then sit near him so he could see me. Now I can just pop him in and leave him. It was amazing to see him asleep without being held! Once he had got the hang of napping in the swing in the day things got much better because he wasn't overtired. From then we were gradually able to move on to sleeping in the cot, with the aid of a Sleepyhead, dummy, Miracle Blanket and white noise. We also visited a cranial osteopath out of desperation and it might have been a massive coincidence but he seemed to sleep better after then.

He is now 4 months and will nap in his cot although only for 20-45 minutes. Thankfully he sleeps well at night, but only since I made sure he naps every 1.5-2 hours in the day. What has helped the most is learning how long he can be awake for and doing something to try to get him to nap 10 minutes before then. It's really not easy and took a lot of time and effort to get to this stage. I spent 1-2 weeks in the house focusing on getting him to nap. It was exhausting but worth it now (until it all changes again).

If it's looking like he's not going to nap in his cot I'll take him out in the pram 10-15 minutes before his nap is due. Sometimes I take some headphones with me to "escape". I felt bad about this at first but it helped my sanity. Eventually he drops off but I might have to cover the pram with a plain muslin to stop him looking getting overstimulated. Babies are so interested in everything around them at this age they fight the urge to sleep very hard.

People who are saying you just need to deal with this are right but it doesn't make it any easier. Sleep deprivation and a constantly crying baby are really tough things to deal with. Please get help from anyone you can - relatives, friends, sleep consultants. Do what you can to survive. Good luck!

just screams bad sleep habits

Screams poor understanding of baby sleep to me. I will put good money on you making your child's sleep issues, attachment issues, bad habits, or whatever you want to call then worse (a lot LOT worse) with what you are doing.

Far too many people trying to turn normal sleep behaviour into a medical problem.

In many ways nearly as bad as the op turning normal sleep behaviour into "bad habits".

Newborn baby who is:

• not fed to sleep and left there
• not given a dummy to comfort suck
• moved at every attempt of sleep
• cannot cosleep because doesn't suit parents
• cannot have cosleeper crib/cot because of space
• is expected just lie down and go to sleep, like an adult would (without any parebtal or independant comfort, you're about 4 years too early in your expectations here)
• Cries for over an hour (which in itself will give wind) while being put down, with no comfort, and being expected to sleep.

... this is all happening and sane posters here are saying the problem is something medical. Really? That's the best you can offer? I'm annoyed at some of the people on this thread, not just the OP.

OP is desperate to hear there must be something wrong with his baby. In fact he's not dealing with NORMAL BABY SLEEP in a very effective way so is reaping the consequences of that.

It might be a medical issue. Eliminating the basics are necessary first though. Baby's needs are simple. Light sleeping usually is caused by

• Hunger. Is baby fed enough? Frequently enough?
• Lack sleep resulting in over tired exhaustion. Baby needs about 10-12h over night and about 4-6h of daytime sleep, often in lots of short 30-45 minute naps.
• Lack of effective help getting to sleep.

I am militant about daytime naps. First nap is exactly one hour after waking in the morning.

Other naps are exactly 1.5 hrs after waking from the previous nap. So she is never awake longer than 1.5 hrs. I have an app on my phone - there are loads of them.

I wish I'd known that with my first. We thought he just didn't need to sleep more than every 2/2.5 hrs cos he was so alert. In hindsight, he was overtired a lot of the time and he screamed the place down.

Sorry your getting a hard time op here,
The sleep board is a harsh place.
If your not happy to survive on two hours sleep a night your get belittled .
I hope your ok.
It will get better.

No, she's not really sleeping in the day still. She'll nod off for 10 minutes if at all after a good long rock to sleep, but then wants to be held. She's getting the medicine twice or three times a day, as specified on the bottle, and seems to have an effect on her spitting up, which is lessened.

Her weight, I can't remember. It's been a few weeks since she was weight, but about 6 kilos, I think?

She rarely sleeps in the buggy for the same reason, she wakes and wants to be held. We've also noticed that on the rare occasions she does go down in the buggy, she'll stay down until we get home. The moment she hears the lift say 'doors opening', she snaps awake, because she knows it's nearly hometime.

She can be settled - by being held. She's an incredibly light sleeper. She'll doze ON YOU quite happily, but the moment you even entertain taking her off she'll twitch and squirm. She won't scream immediately but she'll simply snap awake and lie there. But if you give her a hug and then start putting her down awake, she'll get visibly upset (i.e. pick-up/put down). It seems pretty much like a dislike of not getting her way (i.e. being held), not simply reflux (which ought to manifest itself as being upset when put down all the time, surely?)

Yeah, and we can't fit that in. Our flat is that small. We are moving precisely for this reason!

In terms of getting baby to nap (cos I can hear you thinking it's not that easy) I use the dummy but I put camomile syrup on the end of it. Puts them out like a light.

Oh and I have to hold her for all naps. That is normal for this age. No getting around it. If I tried to put her down, she'd waken usually.

I spend a lot of time watching TV with baby napping on me. It's the reason for maternity leave.

Only in the States, where they have no maternity leave, are they militant about sleep training. So they will say you can sleep train early. American forums are full of sleep training and pumping and all that as they have no choice. But that's a man made issue which is pretty unnatural, and expects far too much of a tiny baby.

And fate she has been diagnosed with a medical issue,
A dairy allergy.

Have you got a sling library near you? You / your wife could wear the baby during the day so she naps and you can do still do things? Both of mine slept like this in the early days. Connecta's are good but the sling library will have lots you can borrow and try out before committing to any expense.