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Sleep

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Original poster

Is it Ok to leave 4 month old to cry to sleep?

80 replies

Cinnamon84 · 14/12/2016 15:16

I've been struggling for ages to get my 4 month ds to nap in the day. (Have written loads of other posts about this)
At night he is rocked to sleep, put in bednest then after breastfeeding he lies down next to me. He sleeps from about 7.30 pm - 7.30am, feeds every 3-5 hours but goes straight back down. This is fine and there doesn't appear to be problems here.

In the day I've tried feeding him, going out in pram, bouncy chair, swaddling, white noise, sitting still, dummy... I just can't get him to nap so I normally resort to holding him and bouncing on yoga ball (normally figits and cries but eventually sleeps) and then lay him down on the bed til he wakes (normally after 45 mins) or I take him out in the sling (yesterday I walked for over 2.5 hours and he slept for 1).

Today he woke at 7.55 and between then and 3 I managed to get him to sleep twice and both times woke after 10 mins. A community nurse came over to try and help and while she was here he constantly tried to fight sleep. She instructed me to put him in his gro bag and leave him in his cot- his shouts and cries eventually turned into full blown screaming, bright red face and sounded like he was choking.

She said babies need to learn to self soothe, which I agree with and that I need to leave him to cry. This doesn't seem right to me but I don't know if I'm being too soft? I know I need to break the cycle of soothing him to sleep but I don't want him to feel like he's ignored when he cries.

I've just started feeding him and he has finally dropped off!

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Original poster

Cinnamon84 · 17/12/2016 03:12

NAughtylittleflea- how did the change happen?
I've kind of taken a break from trying to get him to nap. He looks absolutely exhausted by the end of the day and he's grumpy, but every time I actively tried to get him to sleeep by rocking/bouncing he would end up even more upset and frustrated. I'm just trying feed him more in the day in the hope that he'll fall asleep on me (at least for a bit) and take him out in the sling - it normally takes between 39 mins- 1 hr to sleep and it's ALWAYS for only 45 mins but at least it's something.

I guess I'm trying to achieve the inpossible with trying to get him to self settle- the issue is that he will rarely sleep with me rocking/bouncing/feeding him so don't know why I even tried just leaving him!

OP posts:

Original poster

Cinnamon84 · 17/12/2016 03:14

AndIaskmyself- wow that's amazing. I've got some baby gaviscon but tbh haven't used it as I didn't think that was the issue. Maybe I'll try tomorrow and see if it makes any difference. I'm not sure if he would sleep ok at night if it's reflux?

OP posts:

AndIAskMyself · 17/12/2016 08:08

Well my DS has silent reflux - so gaviscon wouldn't be appropriate because he doesn't posset or vomit ever. I'm not saying your DS has it, but someone suggested it to me and it really made sense for me. She said her child was the same, and slept at night through sheer exhaustion. And since he has been on ranitidine it's like he's a different baby - so easy. A brilliant napped and it means he is jolly right up until the second he goes to bed.

I wouldn't really advise you try gaviscon without speaking to your doc or HV.

But it's worth checking if there isn't an underlying health issue that is preventing your child from being comfortable enough to nap

lockie1983 · 17/12/2016 08:54

Some great advice here OP but all you can do really is trust your instincts about your baby and do what you feel comfortable with.

Anecdotally my DS was the same - don't think he ever napped more than 45 minutes until he was almost a year old. I tried everything, was walking about 4 hours a day with him in a sling or a pram and generally driving myself insane about it.

He only ever napped on me, we rocked him to sleep at night. He dropped his naps before his second birthday but does a solid 12-13 hours at night and self settles at bed time.

This all just happened as he became able to. You know what? I miss rocking him to sleep, I miss him sleeping on me in the day. I wish I had not been so obsessive about getting him to sleep as its gone so quickly. Though I understand how difficult it can be when you are in the thick of it!

I guess some baby's are better at sleeping than others, I don't believe you can "change" that - you need to decide if you think you can.

For what it's worth he's a bright, happy, well adjusted 3.5 year old with no terrible sleep associations it back sleep habits.

Original poster

Cinnamon84 · 18/12/2016 13:54

AndIaskmyself- silent reflux is what the nurse prescribed the infant gaviscon for. He went through a period of being fussy whilst feeding or pulling off and crying- he didn't do this all the time so I assumed it must have been down to something I ate and didn't want to give him medication unnecessarily. Looking into the symptoms of sr we thought we'd try it this morning and he has just slept almost 2 hrs! I wonder if this has been the issue all along and feel so angry with my myself and that bloody community nurse for letting him scream.

OP posts:

AndIAskMyself · 19/12/2016 08:27

That's amazing! But don't feel upset with yourself. I was the same, my DS had been prescribed ranitidine at 6 weeks because he made a really awful gasping sound in his sleep, and the doctor suggested it could be reflux. We were reluctant to give him less for the same reason as you, and we did give him the meds for a couple of weeks and then the noise stopped so, we were advised to take him off the meds.

It was only when another poster suggested it to me, it really made sense. Like I say, it's like he's a completely different baby now.

Fingers crossed that was the issue, and he continues to sleep well on the meds.

WellErrr · 19/12/2016 08:30

I posted on your last thread.

You really need to stop stressing about this. You're getting fixated.

I have a 4 month old too. My third. Sometimes they nap, sometimes they don't. If they're tired, they'll sleep.

And no, you should not be leaving a 4 month old to cry.

I'm trying to be kind - but you seriously need to relax

Original poster

Cinnamon84 · 19/12/2016 10:44

WellErr- thanks for your input here and on the other thread. Ive obviously been struggling so telling me I'm fixated and that I need to "chill. out." is quite condescending.
Yes some babies sleep when they're tired- my baby was having several days where he'd sleep less than 1 hr total in 12 hours and screamed daily which worried me. Since trying medication for silent reflux he's been sleeping so hopefully he's feeling better and I won't need to ask for advice anymore

OP posts:

AndIAskMyself · 19/12/2016 11:17

I agree - it is a little condescending to say the OP is fixated. When you have a baby who you know is tired, and who refuses to sleep and just screams and screams, it's hard not to get fixated. And to say a baby will just magically sleep when they are tired is not always true. As the day progresses they just get more and more grumpy. And even if they sleep well at night, that is little comfort because your waking hours are so fraught. So, yeah, it is hard to 'chill'.

Really hope this works for you OP! Keep me updated!

mimiholls · 19/12/2016 16:35

Categorically untrue to say a baby just sleeps when they're tired. Why would there be a whole board here dedicated to sleep if that were true! An overtired baby is a nightmare. Glad things have improved for you op

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 19/12/2016 17:15

Ds NEVER dropped off to sleep when he was tired, not in the car,cot,buggy or my arms. He always had a cry first and it was a monumental effort to soothe him to sleep.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 19/12/2016 17:16

And yes that was a patronising post of the highest order well

FATEdestiny · 19/12/2016 18:07

I think all WellErrr was trying to say is that stressing and worrying about something you can't do much about will make anyone feel worse than they need to.

Adjusting expectations, and knowing that you aren't doing anything wrong, it's just that your expectations were wrong - is sometimes the single most helpful thing a new mum can hear.

Cinnamon84 - have you tried a swaddle and dummy?

FATEdestiny · 19/12/2016 18:08

Oh, just realised it's a 4 month old so forget the swaddle.

Dummy?

AndIAskMyself · 19/12/2016 19:18

But the OP isn't unnecessarily stressing, she was advised by a health professional to let her 4 month old cry. This instinctively didn't feel right to her, so she asked for advice and opinion.

She is worrying about the napping, because it's stressful, and naps are important to young babies.

I think the OP has previously said that she has tried swaddling, and a dummy, and a bouncy chair, but they haven't worked.

FATEdestiny · 19/12/2016 21:50

Cinnamon84 - how about feeding baby (during the day) while you are both lying on your bed? As in lying down feeding. You then haven't got to worry about trying to put her down or move baby once finished, just leave her there.

Rustler74 · 20/12/2016 08:23

Cinnamon I didn't think for one moment that you were getting fixated about it. I'd probably be equally worried as in your original post, if not more!
Thank you for sharing with us what has helped. That was very useful for me.
G

Original poster

Cinnamon84 · 20/12/2016 13:56

Thanks AndIaskmyself, mimi, dame, Rustler- good to know it's not just this baby that doesn't just drop off once he's tired!

Thanks FATE- yes as mentioned feeding to sleep doesn't work during the day for some reason.

Am taking it easy in terms of trying to get him to sleep anyway and just taking him out in the sling everyday which normally guarantees a 45 min nap.

OP posts:

Thirtyrock39 · 20/12/2016 14:12

I have three children all a lot older now but two were not regularly self settling for day time naps till around 6 months. With my oldest I used to feed her to sleep in our bed at the same time every day (after I'd had lunch) and used to co nap to start - she would often stir after 45 mins (think this is a sleep cycle or something) and I could settle her with quick feed or cuddle , after couple of weeks of this I'd sneak out once she was asleep then after a couple more weeks I'd feed her and put her in cot when asleep then eventually would feed her then put in cot before asleep. I'm sure she was 6 months as I think had started solids ...youngest I had to do a bit of controlled crying for naps at 6 months. Only took a few days . So different options there. It is a sanity saver when they do have regular naps although it dominates things a lot 'I can't do that it's nap time' etc... I needed them to have naps and mine showed real signs of overvtiredness but lots of people don't push the daytime naps it's a personal thing. I think it's probably hard to achieve without some controlled crying though to be honest so the nursery nurse was probably just being a bit blunt but you probably will need to cope with some crying to get them to self settle. 4 months is quite young for this I'd say between 6-9 months is better.

AndIAskMyself · 20/12/2016 14:47

Cinnamon - how has he been on the reflux meds today and yesterday? Has he been better?

Original poster

Cinnamon84 · 21/12/2016 17:21

Hi AndIaskmyself- hes been really constipated today :( he was really straining and crying while pooing- his poos were completely solid and had a tiny bit of blood on them so going back to the nurse tomorrow. We started off initially giving him 2 sachets per feed as instructed by the nurse but have now cut down to 1, so I'm not sure if the constipation is from giving him too much to start or if we should just stop completely. He's been having longer naps in the day (over 1.5 hours instead of 45min or nothing at all) but seems quite unsettled at night. He looked like he was in so much pain earlier so not sure if we should carry on at all.

OP posts:

Original poster

Cinnamon84 · 21/12/2016 17:26

Thirty rock- thanks for sharing that. yes I think at this stage it's ok to do whatever to get him to sleep but maybe try sleep training in a few months.

OP posts:

mimiholls · 21/12/2016 17:29

Constipation is the worst. Have you tried giving 1-2 oz cooled boiled water a day between feeds. If it's really severe my HV recommended some freshly squeezed orange juice on a teaspoon to ease it but you shouldn't do that all the time. Also bicycling legs and massaging tummy gently in clockwise direction (try in warm bath).

AndIAskMyself · 21/12/2016 19:33

I actually discussed with my doc the options and ranitidine and gaviscon were discussed, but I decided gaviscon wasn't appropriate because essentially it works to thicken the feed to stop it coming back up, and my son never vomits, I often see vomit in his mouth, but he seems to swallow it back, which is a symptom of silent reflux. Also, as I breast feed it was also difficult to administer gaviscon as I was told I would need to express and add it to the feed. Ranitidine has been perfect for us - it works to reduce the amount of acid in the stomach, and I just give it to my son using a syringe.

I think it's quite common that gaviscon would cause constipation because of how it works, so it might be worth talking to your doc about other options. I don't think ranitidine is the only other option, but it was convenient for us and worked almost immediately

passremarkable · 21/12/2016 19:41

Cinnamon I think your instincts are right.

Too young.

Also there's a big difference between "crying down" one or two cries out that gradually get quieter, less frequent & less distressed sounding. The baby seems to get more calm and "self soothes".

Versus

"Crying up" what you described in your post. Getting louder, angrier upset. This is not self soothing, and an upset baby won't learn to self soothe.

I think your nurse/HV has failed to recognise the difference between these. I wonder if she/he has just read this and lacks experience??

Only good can come of making young baby feel loved & secure.

Good luck & trust your instincts.

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