The Controlled Crying Support Thread

[DetentionGrrrl]

I am starting CC tonight. It goes against all my instincts, but i'm going back to work next month, and i'm pregnant, so DS has to sleep through. Have tried other ways, but he's almost 8mths, and enough is enough!

I am dreading it, i really am.

Please tell me i'm not alone!

The definitions of support I can find quickly:

'give moral or psychological support, aid, or courage to'
'back: be behind; approve of'

now go away and think outside of your box.

Anyway, what I actually logged on to the thread for was to say well done to you all for keeping on going - you're doing great and sounds like you're seeing results.

Also I just wanted to say that it took a few weeks of maye 2-3 mins crying at bed time but after that we never had any crying at all.

Also - Ruth - DS2's last feed is at 6.00pm ish. We found he couldn't make it much past that as he got too hungry. We usually end up putting him to bed at 6.45pm, wake him at 10.30 for a quick top up (he usually only takes 2-3oz) and then straight back to bed. He then sleeps until 7am approx and gurgles happily in his cot until I get him up for his milk at 7.30 - 7.45am. He did go through a patch about 1-2 months ago of waking in the middle of the night. The first few nights I went to him and offered him milk but he wasn't interested so clearly wasn't hungry. We decided after 3 nights to try leaving him to settle himself. He cried on and off for an hour or so the first night, 10 mins for a few nights after and then stopped crying altogether, though he still wakes sometimes in the night (I hear him snuffling) - the difference is now that he settles himself. (He's 5 months btw)

Hope that little case study's of help. Hang in there, it does work and you'll both be happier as a result

Well said liquidclocks - I think you have finally voiced what the rest of us were thinking. We would all rather sanctimonious postings were done elsewhere.

Sounds like you have done really well with your ds and it gives us all encouragement. I was particularly interested to hear that he cried for a bit for a few weeks when being put to bed. We are still at the few minutes grumbling stage with my dd and I was wondering how long it would take before she would go to sleep happily. I now realise that it can take quite a bit more time.

I'm happier, she's happier - kind of a no brainer now but that's not to say the decision was an easy one to make at the time!

For every argument against the book there is a success story. Please go to Amazon and read the reviews. There are some moms who just hated following Ezzo and others who considered it a Godsend.

Different moms must choose for themselves what will work in their household. I firmly believe there is no right or wrong way here. There are instead many shades of gray. And no one can know how it is for another person.

Here are two paragraphs from the book. If they make you feel more relaxed and hopeful, then this method may be for you. If they make you appalled, and angry (that would be you, kisidee ), then it's simply not for you.

"For optimal development, infants need daytime rest ... there may be a brief period of fussing or crying when you put the baby down for a nap. Don't be deterred from doing what is best for the child. Some crying is a normal part of a baby's day and some babies will cry a few minutes in the process of settling themselves to sleep. The future trade-off will be a baby who goes down for a nap without fussing and who wakes up cooing [instead of crying]."

"When settling for a nap, crying for 15-20 minutes is not going to hurt your baby physically or emotionally. Your baby will not lose brain cells, experience a drop in IQ, or have feelings of rejection that will leave him manic-depressive at age 30. You do not undo all the love and care of the waking hours with a few minutes of crying. On the other hand, if you want a fussy baby, never let him cry, and hold, rock, and feed him as soon as he starts to fuss. We guarantee that you will acheive your goal."

I need to mention that Dr. Sears advocates not letting babies cry for more than 30 minutes at a time for multiple times a day because - over time - this WOULD hurt your child - sending stress signals to the brain, causing loss of cells.

However, Dr. Ezzo never talks about periods longer than 1/2 that time. And in our house we used an even shorter period, picking the baby up to check for a burp/comforting him every 10 minutes.

This is our schedule: Feeding at wakeup (5:30-6:00), then 9:00/9:30, then 12:30 or so, then 4:30, then 8:30/9:30. Naps promptly at 10:30, sleeps until 12:30 (is fed at wakeup); naps again at 2:00. Our schedule of necessity changes per day according to what DS1 needs to do and what errands need to be run. It is by no means a strict schedule.

One of the benefits for us has been knowing DS2 is never extremely hungry or tired, since his feedings and naps are spaced relatively evenly, and he sleeps up to 2.5 hours if he needs it, and takes the bottle until he rejects it once he is completly full.

Marls001 how old is your lo?

'they make you appalled, and angry (that would be you, kisidee ), then it's simply not for you. '

clearly you seem to think i get a lot more emotional over what people do in the privacy of their own homes that i do in rl.

frankly my dear, you know very little about me, and very little about Ezzo too.

go on, click on a link and have a read. instead of quoting amazon.

remember even the devil can quote the bible.

Kikisdee - I am so sorry if I offended you. I was trying to make a joke - obviously I'm not very good at it I know you're not trying to intercede in other peoples' lives. I never thought that.

I have read it all. I did so before I started Ezzo with DS1 in 2003.

I am not an Ezzo fan, nor his foe. Just know that the method did seem to work for us.
I am certainly not trying to convince anyone of anything - just help, but only since asked after I shared my story, which I did in order to maybe make others feel better about what they'ere trying to do with cc.

We did it with DS1 from the beginning, and with DS2 really only since a month ago (he's now 6 months). We tried it with DS2 since he was waking up at 2, then 3, then 4 in the morning every night.

Well we have started something haven't we!

Liquidlocks - Thanks for that I will have a look at the night feeds but at the minute she is feeding to sleep ok in the night and as I am not going back to work yet I am going to give her a bit more time (can you tell she is my only child!) I have cracked the waking after 45 minutes by sending DP into her, she takes one look and goes back to sleep - she knows who has the food!

Kiskidee - Thanks for the reference I will read it in my own time, I have also read your other thread musings on sleep I think it is called and have already read some of the info from there.
Unfortunately the co-sleeping part of attachment parenting can not be done in our family for medical reasons but I believe that for those that choose to do it there can be big benefits.

All- In my experience the Mothers who are concerned about the welfare of their families are the ones who log on to sites such as this. As such they tend to be using it as one source of information and many of them seem to be well read on the subjects they have concerns about. I stated that I had not read Babywise and so I will go and read it. As with most Parenting texts I am sure there are some things I will agree with and some I won't. These preferences will not be exactly the same as any other person on this site. I will make my own decision in my own time.

By the way my DD is getting on really well now, if anyone is considering cc and would like to hear my experience of converting to this method having previously being a completely Baby led parent then please ask. All I can say is that since day one she crys LESS than ever before (lots more brain cells being saved now!).

Again this is only my personal view.

Perhaps everyone should read the post that started this thread - DG said - "please tell me I am not alone" Well DG you are not and if you still feel you need to use CC then it is possible to do it without leaving your LO to scream the house down all night.

Wishing everyone a good night!

it isn't that easy to offend me on an internet forum marls. my old hide is too thick for that.

' need to mention that Dr. Sears advocates not letting babies cry for more than 30 minutes at a time for multiple times a day because - over time - this WOULD hurt your child - sending stress signals to the brain, causing loss of cells.

However, Dr. Ezzo never talks about periods longer than 1/2 that time. And in our house we used an even shorter period, picking the baby up to check for a burp/comforting him every 10 minutes. '

but marls, when you make claims like these, i would have ask for links with which to verify both. back to the research based information i requested earlier.

not of course, about the bit that happens in your house. - oops

I don't understand - was just sharing my personal story; the rest is detail, but either use it or don't; just knew it was right for us. "10-15 minutes" is all over the book, and heard Dr. Sears speak on a TV show a while back. Thought I'd throw that Dr. Sears bit in; didn't think I needed a bibliography.

Anyway, I'm out. I'm not invested in this, just trying to lend support. If you want more info just buy the book.

Marls - I hope you read this. Just wanted to let you know that your support is much appreciated. Unfortunately sometimes on these sites there are people who do not agree and instead of leaving the thread and going elsewhere they feel it necessary to upset those who are posting there experiences in good faith such as yourself.
I am sure those that have posted here against CC and various other methods that have been mentioned are posting in good faith most of the time but they are not taking the hint that by stiring up debate they have killed the initial meaning of the whole thing.

I am about to start a new thread and hope you will contribute there.

Best Wishes to you and your DC

Malaleche ? Great to hear about your good night!!

Here; finally ? have compiled from what I?d posted on the ?support? thread of earlier ?
Now that I know I won't feel ridiculed, am posting this at length; my apologies for how long it is.

We did Babywise (an American method; unsure whether same as CC as haven't read the other books but am assuming it is) with DS1 from the beginning, and with DS2 really only since a month ago (he's now 6 months). We tried it with DS2 since he was waking up at 2, 3, 4 in the morning ... 2-3 times, different every night. DH was doing nights by that point b/c DS2 had given me insomnia - if I was woken, I was up for the night.

Here are two central paragraphs from Babywise:

"For optimal development, infants need daytime rest ... there may be a brief period of fussing or crying when you put the baby down for a nap. Don't be deterred from doing what is best for the child. Some crying is a normal part of a baby's day and some babies will cry a few minutes in the process of settling themselves to sleep. The future trade-off will be a baby who goes down for a nap without fussing and who wakes up cooing [instead of crying]."

"When settling for a nap, crying for 15-20 minutes is not going to hurt your baby physically or emotionally. Your baby will not lose brain cells, experience a drop in IQ, or have feelings of rejection that will leave him manic-depressive at age 30. You do not undo all the love and care of the waking hours with a few minutes of crying. On the other hand, if you want a fussy baby, never let him cry, and hold, rock, and feed him as soon as he starts to fuss. We guarantee that you will acheive your goal."

We used 10-minute periods, actually picking the baby up to check for a burp/comforting him every 10 minutes - some methods don?t advocate picking baby up, but we just wanted to make sure it wasn?t gas.

First day of implementing feeding schedule, I wore DS2 around in the Baby Bjorn during that last hour before a feed so he wouldn't become upset. Only two feeds were like this; he began taking full feeds after that.

Naps and sleep time have been made easier as DS2 is in a room where we can?t hear him cry without the baby monitor. This was done at first out of necessity for DS1; unfair to have him be woken up by DS2. So ? the baby is actually in the walk-in closet in our room, a temporary situation but the only area we found that is soundproofed to DS1?s room. When I couldn?t stand it I would just turn the monitor off and then back on 5 min. later. (Of course we still have to plan dressing around the baby ?)

Schedule: Feeding at wakeup (5:30-6:00), then 9:00/9:30, then 12:30 or so, then 4:30, then 8:30/9:30. Naps promptly at 10:30, sleeps until 12:30 (is fed at wakeup); naps again at 2:00. Our schedule of necessity changes per day according to what DS1 needs to do and what errands need to be run. It is by no means a strict schedule.

One of the benefits for us has been knowing that DS2 is never extremely hungry or tired, since his feedings and naps are spaced relatively evenly, and he sleeps up to 2.5 hours if he needs it, and takes the bottle until he rejects it once he is completely full.

The transition as I observed it - in our case - seemed relatively sudden. After about 3-4 days of day scheduling (of naps & feedings, not night scheduling), DS1 began to sleep in the night without waking us at 1,3,4 am - AND he also suddenly had a personality change. He is a much happier baby now - just beaming, where before it was difficult to get 1.5 "okay" hours out of him during the day (and therefore I wasn't able to really enjoy him very much-made me sad).

DS2 now seems so much more content than before. He is definitely doing better overall, whether he's able to get enough sleep now, or likes the consistency, I don't know. It has also made a difference for family scheduling of errands and outings.

Opponents of Babywise/CC have not had the experience of our household - this transition from unhappy baby to happy baby; I cannot come to terms with cc being a completely "bad option" since I am living day-to-day with a (suddenly) much happier baby.

Agree with DaddyJ wholeheartedly.

Please ignore previously sent message. It was NOT intended for this particular thread.

hi there, im new to this thread and indeed new to mumsnet.
have read this whole thread in order to gain a little insite and get a little more balls in the cc department. i have a nearly 6 month old who has for the past three weeks started waking during the night (up to five times a night!). previously she has been sleeping through since about 10weeks.
She is on the boob and has recently (past week) started on a little solids. she is waking wanting boob every time she wakes during the night and i give it thinking she must be in a growth spurt and genuinly hungry. one night after we got to being fed every two hours, i decided she wasnt really hungry and we had just gotten into a bad habit as i know she is capeable of sleeping 12 hours through!
so i talked to her dad about it and got what i thought was his support. only last night at five in the morning after half an hour of absolute screaming and me bawling my eyes out outside her door he convinced me to feed her. after which she went happily back to bed and sleep.
any ideas, support or advice would be great, i have no idea why she is waking but cant cope anymore. it was fine when she was newborn but i have daytime commitments now and cant sleep all day with her like i used to!

Hi taniwha - it would probably be best for you to join the other thread we cc mums (and dads!) have switched to - "Positive experiences and advice on controlled crying". Lots of inspiration here to give you courage x