Sleepless of Mumsnet - join us if your LO consistently laughs in the face of sleep!

[Purpleboa]

Hi everyone. I thought I'd create this thread when I saw that there were quite a few of us lingering on the 4 month regression thread, with babies that clearly didn't get the memo about things getting better!

I've seen another thread for parents whose children are long term poor sleepers but I think it's been relegated to zombie status. So I hope nobody minds if I start another one! If your LO consistently struggles to sleep, whether it's down to diet, night terrors or just sheer bloody mindedness, please pull up an armchair and join in! I'll supply the espressos, hugs and chocolate, wine and tears served after 4pm.

I'll start: my DD is 25 weeks. She's gorgeous, adorable and the absolute light of my life. Unless it's between the hours of 7pm and 7am! She's struggled with sleep always. I thought things would improve following the 'fourth trimester' but she got a cold, reacted badly to her jabs...and before I knew it we'd cruised into the 4 month regression. Which she's either still in, or she's teething, or developing, or wonder weeking, or fck knows really!

The past two weeks have been particularly painful and I feel I'm reaching the limits of my endurance. I love being her mum, I love spending time with her...but not sleeping makes it oh so very hard.

I have found Mumsnet to be a wonderful source of support during those dark and lonely hours when you feel like you're the only person in the world going through this. So I wanted to give back and support others too.

I'll put the kettle on...

So it took me hours to get him to sleep, I sat holding him for 45 mins then could smell burning. I put him down so gently but he woke up, screaming and grumpy because he was still so tired I burnt the fucking dinner again.

He's ready for bed now

Hope dd is feeling better soon bugaboom.have you got one of them snot suckers? I think they're ace but ds won't let me near him with it. He also hates any nose drops/sprays.

Oh Buga, the peas comment made me proper belly laugh! Just what I needed after being up and down with 20mo DS last night wouldn't settle between 2am and 5am then up for the day at 7am He hasn't done that for a couple of months so was long overdue!

So much for Friday before Christmas! In previous years I'd have been messy drunk with friends or colleagues, full of festive spirit (in both senses!) This year, I've gone to bed early with DD following a blazing argument with DH which neither of us are prepared to back down from. So have had toast for dinner and am now sulking...does anyone else worry that their relationship won't survive this??

Purple I know my relationship won't survive this

Hi zombie - how do you get him to sleep eventually? I really want to tackle cot.naps over Christmas but I honestly think DS2 doesn't known what to do once in the cot as he's just used to falling asleep in the sling. He just thinks it's playtime in the cot...?

Purple feel free to tell me to stfu you sound at the end of your tether.

What are you finding the hardest, is it the breastfeeding as it's all on you, is it just the lack of sleep? Are you going back to work at some point?

If you can get dd to accept a bottle (if that's still what you want to do), you can get some relief. Would you consider a sleep consultant?

One way or another in a couple of years from now you will be counting sleeps until Santa with your dd, and you have a babysitter and go for works drinks.

Christmas with a baby isn't all it's cracked up to be, but it's fab once they get a bit older.

Purple ime the first year with your first is really tough on a relationship not exactly a bed of roses with the second baby but it is better for us. We had evenings just like you described. Luckily ds would take a bottle so I started mixed feeding which helped eased the burden and I could go out with friends. If my first didn't take a bottle I would have really struggled. Would you be happy to suggest to dh that you just go out for a day or an evening and leave a bottle? A friend of mine had some success with this approach but it's not for everyone.
Also agree with pyjama that the first Christmas isn't all its cracked up to be. I remember ours was going through 4 month sleep regression and didn't nap all day. But we dressed him up as an elf and the pictures look like it was the best Christmas ever... it really wasn't. This year though having a three year old excited is really precious.

Starfish literally the only way he will fall asleep is if I am holding him and he is at home my friends put videos and things on Facebook of their babies around ds age falling asleep all over the place and I'm like WTF how do you do that?!?

Two hours to get him to bed tonight I really need a shower but I'm scared as the floor boards are creaky. I feel anxious as I'm just sitting here waiting for his next wake up.

We started weaning, which brought a night of horrible explosions in the nappy department. Think I'm in for the same tonight as she's not been all day (and is usually a 4-6 times a day girl)

Purple, or if you prefer!
Bug has some wise words. The first year is really hard. Sleep deprivation brings out the worst in people. I think BFing is great but it certainly ended up for us that there is a fair old period where there is only one thing (ie person with the boobs) who can settle the baby. I never quite got myself geared up to just leave them to it, but they would have coped for a night. I can see that now, but still not doing that now I have another baby!

My eldest (not yet two) has a fab bedtime routine instigated by my DH. She has been fine when I have been away for work, and would also be fine now to stay away with close family. Time does pass really quickly.
My family are having to remind me that I had difficult times with her sleep too (and probably still will!) as now we're on to number two and it's all starting again.

I know I snap when I'm tired, resent DH for being able to sleep in another room and go out to work, but ultimately it doesn't help.

Hopefully tomorrow you will have both calmed down and he can take your DD for some time to let you sleep, or do something nice like go for a swim / haircut / coffee / glass of wine with friends.

Somehow I missed all the posts in between asking zombie about getting her son to nap - sorry I wasn't ignoring everyone!

6 x peas bug - that is hilarious! Bless her tho hope she feels better soon.

My friend told me it's normal to hate your husband when you have a baby . This time next year it will be magical and just think purple you might even be pregnant again . Amazing what you can wipe from memory.

Oh no fluff. .. you are cmpi too aren't you. What do you think it was that caused a reaction? I'm going to trial wheat tomorrow - hope it will be ok!!

Thanks all for your kind and supportive words. I feel bad for whingeing on when there are people with far worse sleep situations on here!

I think it's just all got too much. I can feel myself returning to the depression I felt in the first few weeks of DD's life. I read that it's common to hit a low around the 6 month mark so I guess it's not surprising. Six months of no sleep has caught up on me! As well as just having no time to myself.

Pyjama, it's the lack of sleep that's killing me really. Yeah, the not taking a bottle thing is a pain, but if she was sleeping more then I'd be much happier with it all. I'm going back to work in May. I really hope she is sleeping better by then!

Yeah, several people have suggested a sleep consultant but we just can't afford it. Plus, I'd be reluctant to do it now because 6 months seems such a changeable age. I'm hoping that once weaning is underway and she gets more mobile, more sleep will happen. But if we're still here at 9 months, well, never say never!

Ha Starfish the thought of being preg next Christmas is slightly horrifying - I'm hoping to have at least one Christmas where I'm not up the duff or breastfeeding! Keep looking at photos of Christmas nights out gone past on Facebook, and mourning my old life.

The HV is coming to see us again on Monday. She'll prob offer help again and I do wonder if I am sliding into PND. But I'm scared that by admitting that, she'll put me on some at risk register. Am I being paranoid??

How's everyone's nights? Usual here. Taken her into bed with me because she has been awake since 1230. Hope you're all having a better time of it!

Me again! It's 4 and she still won't settle properly. I've tried having her sleeping on me but she keeps waking up and crying. She's obviously so tired but can't sleep for long. Does anyone know why this might be??

I'm going to have to sleep train aren't I.

Purple I hope she slept for you after your post no idea why she's doing that but ds is exactly the same and he never wakes up 'happy' he always wakes up crying which makes me sad.

Well it took me 2 hours to get ds to bed last night, then he woke up when I went to bed at 11 until around 1.30, then he slept until 4, then up at 4.40.

At least he will get a few hours now which is an improvement.

I feel like I just spend my days sitting in dark quiet rooms trying to get him to sleep which is no fun for either of us

purple

Sounds like another awful night. Did you and DH make up this am? I don't know what to say except it's totally normal to get pnd - there is no stigma attached to it and the HVs won't make any judgement. If you feel comfortable to I would talk about how you feel to your HV and even the gp. Lack of sleep is an absolute killer as is the utter desperation that goes with it.

It sounds like such a cliché to say babies all get there in their own time but they really just do. It won't help that your nct friends all have babies sleeping thru and you'll be comparing and putting pressure on what yours 'should' be doing.

I have to admit I've had a shock this time as I really didn't think I'd be where I am now with number 2 but it's made me realise they literally are all so different. I was moaning to a friend yesterday about how I needed to 'tackle' his sleep and she just laughed and reminded me he won't play ball if he's not ready. If DS2 had been my first I'd be feeling a lot different to how I am the only thing that keeps me going is the knowledge of how quickly it all goes - though every day is a battle to remember that.

There is so much pressure to have a perfect baby, be a yummy mummy who bakes scones whilst baby is napping but that isn't the reality. All we can do is make the best of a bad situation by trying to remain sane. So if you miss your old life is there something you can do once a week to feel like 'you'? A swim? Meeting friends for coffee? Cinema... timetabling in your 3 hr slot say on a Saturday will give you something to look forward to every week despite being tired etc.

Anyway hope the above is helpful and you aren't thinking oh just fuck off!! . I really feel for you. Only you know how you feel mentally so if you need to act upon it then do so and hopefully you'll get the support you need from the gp or HV xxxx

Oh and purple are you sure you don't need to rule out a medical condition? Silent reflux maybe??

zombie you must be beyond tired. I hope naps go well today.

We had 3 wake ups last night so pretty good. 11, 2 and 4. He's in the carrier now having a snooze. Groundhog day anyone...?!

I've no idea why she won't settle I imagine you've already thought of and googled every possibility. Ds woke up about 5 times and once just stayed up for 1.5 hours wriggling around in his cot. He just seems to be a light sleeper like his dad, ds1 is a deep sleeper like me.

Ag no point suggesting a sleep consultant if you can't afford it, I've no idea of costs and yes it is a changeable age, weaning, sitting up, trying to crawl.

Perhaps hang on in there and think again February time.

Re pnd, it sounds as though if you could just get a decent nights sleep and a break you'd be right as rain. But you certainly wouldn't be put on any at risk register. This time of year doesn't help, with the dark nights and the cold days plus expected to be all jolly with Christmas.

I can remember feeling really down with ds1 at around 6-7 months, it was Autumn, I was struggling with weaning and I remember thinking 'I'm never ever doing this again' yet here I am.

Yes to silent reflux ds has reflux and it's definitely a factor

It was awful here. Awful. She coughed, she woke. I coughed, she woke. All night. I'm trying to be positive. I have a nice morning with friends today. I'm not going to be negative and assume I'm going to be too tired to enjoy. I'm going to drink a bucket of coffee and have a nice day. And buy cough sweets.

Can I join? I've tried to read the whole thread but I'm too tired.

DS is nearly 9 months, actually started off sleeping better than I expected (DD was awful until 3. That's why there's a 5 year age gap) but since about 6 months he's reverted to newborn sleeping, waking hourly, not being put down in the evenings. We have failed miserably at getting him into a cot, I've given up and just have him in with us.

I'm back at work and I'm so bloody tired, hes just got his first tooth through so we had two good nights which were amazing, he only woke 3 times. Then last night he was practically feeding non stop from 1 until 6 when I gave up and got up...

On the bright side dd sleeps now at nearly 6. All night, every night. So I've just got another 4 ish years of this..^sobs^

Welcome you can't scare me (-great name btw!)

Bug, sorry to hear about your bad night.

Thanks all. I'm at my lowest point yet. I've been crying most of this morning. I'm losing my mind. I actually don't want to be here anymore. It's not going to get any better, she's clearly a long term bad sleeper, and call me weak, but the thought of a couple of years of this?? Why did we do this to ourselves??

I've considered silent reflux but she doesn't show the symptoms so I don't know. I'll ask the HV though.

Despite a shit night she's now wide awake and won't even nap. Why???

Oh sweetheart. Is your dh there today? He needs to step up and look after you too. I hope you managed to make up.

Do speak to your health visitor or GP asap, don't worry about being judged, you won't be. Emphasise just how poorly dd is sleeping. Services vary depending where you are but I know here that HV have other staff who can support you a bit more with any issues and you might be able to get some practical support with sleep training if that's the route you want to go down.

Purple I was so where you are right now. I remember being a crying sniffling wreck when my DS was between 4mo up until around 16mo! (Although by 16mo it was def much better). This wasn't nice for my older DS, DH or other family as I was constantly crying at them about how sleep deprived I was with seemingly no end in sight.

DS is now 20mo and I would like to say he sleeps through, but alas he doesn't. But things are so much easier. He naps in cot once a day for 2hrs, self settles alone at bedtime and has since about 15mo (I just dump and run!) Still wakes 2- 3 times but I literally go and tuck him in and am back in bed within 3 minutes (can't send DH as DS screams the house down if it's not me!) I breastfed up until he was 19mo and packed it in without a murmer, although I nightweaned at 10mo as he stopped settling after a feed. Basically, it does get better. My oldest was a shit sleeper too but from about 2yrs old slept 12hrs + and still does at 6yrs old (there is a 5yr age gap between ours due to not wanting the sleep deprivation again!) I haven't sleep trained either of them so it does get better naturally if you can wait that long. There were many times I almost lost it and wanted to do CC but in the end, I couldn't bring myself to. It is my natural instinct to respond to either of my children day and night - if my 6yr old was to shout me in the night I would be there in an instant. (He woke the house up singing a school hymn in his bed at 4am the other day - I went in and told him to shut up as still the middle of the night! He has never done this before, think the Christmas excitement is getting too much for him).

Basically, you are doing great and hang in there. Although it feels like it the sleep deprivation itself won't kill you and unless you have another child(!) You won't ever have to feel like this again. In my darkest days these websites helped -

sarahockwell-smith.com/category/babies/
evolutionaryparenting.com/category/new_sleep/inf_sleep/

And for light relief -

stolensleep.com

P.s It is amazing what you can do while severely sleep deprived, all through my pregnancy and DS's life I've been studying for an English degree. I've written essays after weeks of being woken every hour every night and got marks of 80%+, your brain isn't as frazzled as you might feel!

Thanks both. Yes DH and I have made up - nothing like a meltdown to improve the atmosphere! Am in bed now but way too keyed up to sleep.

He's offering for me to go and stay in a hotel tonight while he looks after DD. Risky, especially as DD still won't take a bottle. The idea being I'll leave a bottle of expressed milk. What do we think? Too risky or should we do it? Too tired to decide if it's a good idea or not!

My DH offered that numerous time but I declined knowing I wouldn't relax and sleep due to worrying that DS might be crying for me!

Having said that, if you think you could sleep then do it. Your DD will be fine with your DH who loves her and will comfort her when she needs it. If she is desperate for milk then she will take the bottle but if she doesn't she won't expire through hunger before you return!