pupd

[zombiemeow]

Anyone who has done pupd give me some advice, I have no idea what I'm doing. Is it as obvious as just picking up and putting down? ????How long has it taken to work for you... If at all? ????I always said I wouldn't do sleep training but I'm absolutely broke ds is almost 10 mo and we're lucky if he sleeps 2-3 hours at night.

Hi! I did when my dd was little. Worked well but she was about 6mo. Link below from the baby whisperer forums was really helpful. Top tip is start with night times as they are generally sleepier then. Also try to follow guidance on nap times (so don't nap too late in the day) as you want him to be tired enough to go to sleep. Anotger tip is to pay attention to the type of cry. The BW talks about all babies having a wah wah mantra cry which means they are trying to get to sleep. Don5jump in too soon with pupd....often dd would do the wind down manyra cry and I wouldn't need to go in to pupd. Stick with it and be consistent and it works.
www.babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=208990.0

Thank you will have a look at the link. ????How long did it take you to see a difference? ????It's a last resort for me, I cry at night now as I dread it so much

At that age it was more a case of just laying DS back down every time he stood up and patting his back/shushing him. I picked him up if he got really upset but laid him back down again as soon as he calmed down so he didn't fall asleep in my arms.

First night probably took an hour, 2nd less, 3rd less and by the 4th I was just patting and shushing him in his cot until he fell asleep. Then I gradually did less patting every night for another few nights until he was going down awake and falling asleep.

I just read that snossige, might have to start again tomorrow night then.????I don't know what he's doing though, he will stand up in his cot and then scream and cry and when I go in he puts his arms up and starts laughing and if I pick him up he laughs and then kisses me ????If I lie him down he usually just carries on screaming, do I just let him scream? I'm such a softie it kills me hearing him cry

Are you leaving the room?

I stayed by the cot. If he's lying down pat his bum rhythmically so he jiggles a bit and shush him. You'll have to judge on the screaming but if he stays lying down I would just keep patting and shushing.

Are you dead set on pupd rather than controlled crying? You know, in hindsight I now think dd (now 5yo!!) would probably have responded quicker to cc as she was very alert and er spirited!!! She was very stimulated by other people's presence so actually I reckon she actually wanted to be left alone (still does!). Something to consider. It took a few nights of taking ages then after about a week she was pretty good at getting herself to sleep. The bw says that there is always a short regression (every few days) but when they get through these they are even better at getting to sleep themselves so take heart!

Ps. I would actually recommend earphones. There are no rules to say that you have to listen yo the crying at full volume (someone will come along in a minute to say how cruel I am I suspect). Dd is a brilliant sleeper and a lovely well adjusted girl. And getting her to learn to sleep was better for everyone.

'Shush pat' is for younger babies - under 4 months I think. PUPD worked well for me when DS was 8m and waking every 2 hours. But you can't just make it up, you have to read about it in detail in the books or on the forum, and then you have to be utterly consistent. Basically, when your DS cries properly, you go in and pick him up, but the second he stops crying in your arms, you put him down again and say your phrase (e.g. 'sleepy time now'). He will at first then immediately start crying again, so you pick him up again, but the second he stops, you put him down again - continue. And don't engage in any other way. And as pp said, don't rush in if he's doing his 'trying to get himself to sleep monotonous cry' which sounds different to full-on crying. The aim is to teach him to settle himself back to sleep in his cot, without needing the 'prop' of whatever it is you used to do (rock, bf, etc).

For me and DS it worked like a dream on the 3rd night, and after a couple of weeks he was sleeping for 9 hours at a time.

Good luck - and read all about it first, then be determined and stick to your guns.

I don't know what he does really he starts crying and I go in and he is usually standing up, I was just lying him down, giving dummy and his muslin that he holds and then leaving the room, I would have to do this a few times in a row then he would settle for a bit before it all starts over. Then I thought maybe pupd would work but that website says its for younger babies.??The other night he was still awake and shattered at 1.30am and I had been up since 4am the previous morning I decided I needed to do cc for both our sakes, but after around 30 mins of crying he got himself in such a state he sounded like he couldn't breathe properly and I got upset. I don't think I'm strong enough to be consistent with cc serious case of pfb

Going through this at the moment with 9mo ds. Firstly, have you checked the usual - room the right temp, dark enough, not teething or otherwise unwell etc etc?

I've got no advice really as ds is waking quite a lot at the moment, despite going to sleep well initially. I'm hoping it's just a phase that will eventually pass.

When he wakes up we go in and lie him back down again, put his dummy in and rock him gently as he lies there for a few seconds. We then go out and close the door and return every 30 seconds or so to repeat that if he's crying (unless it's the type of cry mentioned above and then we'll just leave him to it.) We try not to pick him up unless he's really upset.

It's so bloody draining though. My only other suggestions are to abandon all hope of doing anything productive with your day and nap when your dc does (or at least chill on the sofa for a bit!) and make sure someone takes over at the weekend to give you a lie in!

I don't really know what the cry is that people have mentioned, but I know if I leave him for more than a few mins he turns hysterical and if dh tries to settle him he gets even worse, but if I walk in when dh is settling him he starts laughing. ??He hasn't got any teeth at all yet but I haven't noticed any signs of teething, I've also tried giving him calpol incase he's in any pain. ??I even took him to the Drs as his sleep has just been awful for so long. They said there was nothing physically wrong with him but he could have reflux and they put him on gaviscon but it made him so constipated and didn't make a difference to his sleep so I stopped it. She said the only other thing we can do is 'give him something to calm him down at night' which I definitely won't be doing. I have raised his cot to try and help if it is reflux ????

Sorry about all the ??????Am on the new app and it does it if you leave a gap!

How much sleep is he getting in 24hrs roughly? He sounds seriously chronically overtired.

It's hard to say really, it can vary loads I have problems getting him to sleep and keeping him asleep for naps.??Yesterday he had about an hour in the morning then just under an hour in the afternoon. When he woke from his second nap he was clearly tired rubbing his eyes and yawning. I tried for about 30 mins to get him back to sleep but he was not having any of it he was wriggling away. Then. He went to sleep about 8, he had 2 wake ups between then and 10, one was for around 30 mins. Then probably around every 1.5/2 hours last night, up to 15 mins a time. But last night wasn't that bad compared to how he usually is.??This morning he has had about a 20 min nap and has just fallen asleep again so fingers crossed he will have a good nap.

Have you ruled out any food allergies/intolerances? I read a study carried out on 13 month olds who were classed as insomniacs - once dairy was cut out of their diet they went from sleeping 5hrs in 24hrs to 13hrs! Quite a dramatic difference.

He has cmpi and is under a dietitian/consultant. I see his consultant the start of October so am hoping he might be able to give some advice. Before it was diagnosed he would wake for a feed every 45 minutes round the clock

Ah, OK. Did he have any other symptoms? Do they seem under control? Could have other food intolerances not discovered yet?

They did think he had a possible egg allergy but has tried it and been fine. He was recently changed from nutramigen to neocate to see if that helped with his sleeping but it hasn't how embarrassing that I actually went to the Drs and spoke to the dietitian as my baby doesn't sleep

Wow zombie that's a shocker. I think that first and foremost you need to remember that both of you need sleep, not just you but your DS to develop, be rested and happy.

Daytime routine is important - an overtired baby is more difficult to get to sleep and more wakeful when they are asleep so you need to look to achieve 2 good daytime naps. I would also suggest moving to a by-the-clock routine. Stick with it for a week to see if he adapts. It will mostly feel like it isn't working to begin with but after a while, they usually get the idea.

So;

7am - get up and dressed if not awake already
7.30am - milk
8/8.30 breakfast
11am lunch
11.30 - 1 nap
2pm milk
4pm dinner
4.30 - 5.30 nap
6pm supper
6.30 bath if required
6.45 IN THIS ORDER - pjs, gro bag, milk, book, upstairs, cuddle and bed

Putting to sleep as follows;

Nap time routine - nappy change, gro bag, bedroom, curtains drawn, the same book and then bed

Put him down wide awake and leave him to it for 5 minutes. Go downstairs and keep yourself busy tidying the kitchen etc. Don't hover outside his door. When you go back, listen before you walk in. If he's wailing then go in. Don't take him out of his cot, just say, 'it's okay, it's just time to go to sleep now.' A quick shhh and a rub on the bum and then leave. Settling isn't the purpose of the visit, it's just to let them know you're there.

Then back downstairs for 10 minutes and repeat every 10 minutes. Don't stay for too long and go in too often - it just winds them up if you do that IMO.

If you don't want to leave him to cry, you can do gradual withdrawal where you put them down wide awake but then sit in the room, not making eye contact. This is obviously harder as you have to listen to the crying but you may feel better about not leaving him.

Night wakings;

Upon waking, always give him 5 minutes before running in
At 10 months I wouldn't be offering milk from 7-7, maybe a dreamfeed if he isn't on many solids
Treat night wakings as above - either leaving in intervals or gradual withdrawal

I hope this helps. The biggest thing here is consistency.

Thanks notthe, will try and get him in more of a routine. During the day if I put him in his cot though, even if I put him down fast asleep, he wakes in about 5 minutes and acts wide awake. I have tried leaving him there to fall asleep & trying to settle and get him back in but he won't have it. Should I just leave him until he eventually falls asleep? I have been told by the dietitian that I need to reduce his milk asap as he is still on 5 bottles a day (recently 6 as I have been so tired I have tried feeding to sleep) but if I give him less milk he gets hungry sooner, if I give him more then he won't eat food. If I offer snacks he just screams until he gets his milk. Oh god I make him sound really bad! He really is lovely when he is awake and not tired ??I know he can do it as one night he actually slept from 6-6 then woke up, had breakfast and then had his next bottle around 11. It was a real shocker for me! At the moment he usually has breakfast around 7/7.30 a bottle around 8/8.30, i offer a snack around 10 but he won't have it, bottle at 11, lunch at 12, bottle at 2.30, dinner at 5, bottle at 6.30 then usually one in the night ????

At that age my DS was napping 9.30 until 11ish then 2pm until 3pm with bedtime at 7pm

Honestly, I think you just need to bite the bullet. It's a cycle whereby he doesn't eat much, because he has a lot of milk and it's easier to chow down a bottle than it is to eat! If you stick to a routine for a week or so, he will adjust but the first few days won't be much fun.

With the napping, don't rock him to sleep (or whatever method you usually go for) in the first place. He needs to learn how to go to sleep on his own and to do that he needs to go in his cot, wide awake at nap time and bedtime. I would just leave him until he falls asleep, yes.

Thanks everyone for the advice. ????Will start with a routine tonight and hope for the best

Good luck Zombie! Sometimes when they're in need of a change they adapt quickly.

Thank you. I think I'll start at bedtime, I read somewhere that's the best time to start something different.

Just a few questions if anyone is still about. He was falling asleep at the bottle so I let him finish it and put him straight to bed. As soon as I put him down his eyes sprang open so I went downstairs and started tidying the lounge and he was crying for a few mins. I then went and lay him down and said sleepy time and patted him, but he just grabbed my hand then started to drift off. As soon as I took my hand away he started screaming so I patted him again and said sleepy time and now I'm sat in the corner of his room but he's just staring at me. He isn't screaming though. Is that being too inconsistent?