4 month sleep regression- oh.my.god.

[hazel88]

So my DD has just hit the 4 month sleep regression hard. It sucks. It really sucks. for a short while she had been doing 6 hour chunks for the first part of the night followed by 1 or 2 wakings after. On the rare occasion she would just wake up once for a feed then that was it. BLISS. She's now waking up more times than I can count and I'm wondering if she'll ever sleep better again. I know about the 4 month sleep regression inside-out but would really appreciate experiences from others who have either gone through it or are going through it. I need some sanity restored...please?!

Thank you both for your advice re. CC. The thought of DD crying and leaving her breaks my heart,it makes me feel sick thinking about it. I too have had brief moments of feeling suicidal. If we reach 6 months where DD is capable of self-settling and is still waking like this then it will be something I will consider.

Starling did you always go in after several minutes or did you extend it each time? What exactly did you do? it sounds an amazing success and with just 1 night it sounds worth it. Thanks for sharing your experience.

I totally get that Hazel , I was so stressed about the entire thing! I never left him for than 5 mins but I think you are meant to extend it the timings , it may work quicker rage way . It's quite possible we get to six months and sleep naturally improves . Fingers crossed !

did you give it 5 mins each time and then over 3 nights sleep was better? How much better did it get?!

Thanks both. We went in every five minutes the first night. Now on the rare occasions he does fuss when he goes down (maybe once every fortnight) we go in every ten minutes, usually only once because he shuts up before we need to go in again. Sometimes he won't go down when I put him in his cot for his second nap of the day... I go in after ten minutes, and if he's still grizzling after another ten mines, I let him up again and try again in an hour or so.

I know what you mean about finding your baby's cries heartbreaking though :( The first night, my partner had to go in each time while I sat in the car, crying. But it was worth it. And horrible to say, you get a little inured to it - don't get me wrong, if he cries because he's toppled over or if he's upset, I immediately have to rush to comfort him. But if he's grizzling in his bed when he's just gone down for a nap, I find it bearable for a bit at least, because I KNOW he will go to sleep very shortly and I KNOW it's better for him than the broken sleep we were all getting before.

I had the added stress if getting ds in his cot also . I went through a website called baby sleep answers and paid for email support from a sleep consultant called Wendy dean but the website has since closed down. She was an amazing support and talked me through the process . I think it's important that the baby is Def not in pain and eating plenty when starting.

Thankyou both.

Starling, so you had to do it for just the one night and it worked? How many times did your LO wake? Once DD is just over 6 months and her room is finished (and cotton wool is at my bedside) I think we'll try this if her sleep has not improved. She's not refreshed after her sleep and none of us are sleeping. I'll only try it once I'm sure she's not in pain, not hungry etc.

Apparently it can take up to three nights to see an improvement . With us the crying time reduced until we could just put him down without any crying. It's such a nice feeling when they chatting to themselves before settling for the night !

The second and third nights, he cried for less than ten minutes, so we went in to him just the once... And he never woke up in the night, even on the very first night. We had planned to do cc each time he woke, but he didn't! He slept for 10 hours that first night, though now it's usually closer to 9.5 hours.

He did have colic and reflux when he was tiny, so I definitely wouldn't have done it til he was better, and I think we got into very bad habits because we'd do anything to get him to sleep, so even once he wasn't in pain, he was still demanding cuddles every hour. Once he realised he wasn't going to get rocked to sleep ten times a night, he just started sleeping through. I can't explain it other than that!

He used to have two or even three feeds at night too, but once he started sleeping through, he just made up for that during the day. He clearly didn't need them, it was just habit. Crucially, we used to give him his last bottle just before bed so he fed to sleep, and we'd rock him with his dummy in if he wasn't due a feed. We cut that out entirely, feeding him before his bath and story, and taking the dummies off him. We do give him a dummy sometimes if he's grouchy during the day, because the sucking calms him, but we wanted to break the association between suckling and sleeping, so that he could settle himself without us needing to stick the dummy or a bottle in. He likes to chew on his stuffed animal toys in bed, but he can find them himself, so he doesn't need us to help him if he wants something to chew for comfort if he wakes in the night.

We also used to tiptoe around after he gone to bed, but now we don't need to do that. Every day noises don't disturb him at all, whereas before he'd wake just if we walked past his bedroom door.

He has woken a few times when he's moved up to the top of the cot and his motion detector monitor has gone off because he's moved off the sensor pad. He actually only wakes when one of us goes running in to check he's still breathing! Then he might grizzle, but he's always shut up and fine back to sleep by the time we've got back into our room, so literally 30 seconds to a minute of grizzling, and sometimes he doesn't even stir when it goes off!

whoa that's incredible- what a success! Thankyou for sharing. you've made me feel alot better. DD is on her second wake up already and is now feeding

You're welcome! If you are prepared to try sleep training when DD is six months old, at least it's a deadline you can look forward too while you're currently suffering.

I've also got to add, I could not have done it without DP's support. Any of it, because he used to do half the wake ups when DS was very bad, despite working full time.

That's good you had the support there. DD turns 6 months just before August bank hol and DP will be off then so I think we'll try it then if it comes to it.

what did you do when putting your LO down? and what did you do when you went in after a few minutes...cuddling or patting or anything? sorry for all of the questions but I'm intrigued!

Hazel, this is the book I have and used for ds , there are other sleep training methods too . www.amazon.co.uk/Baby-Sleep-System-Wendy-Dean/dp/095581541X

We planned to do it over a weekend but in the event we just snapped and did it midweek! DP did work from home that week though, just in case it went wrong, and to help with the naps as they were a little harder to sort (he still grizzles when he goes down for his naps).

Bedtime routine: at around 6.45 we start feeding him, in the living room rather than his darkened bedroom. He takes his time (usually about 20 minutes) and sometimes he does fall asleep, but I wake him up gently and carry on feeding him. Then his daddy takes him for his bath and I get his room ready. Curtains shut and blind down, nightlight on and white noise thing on. Sleeping bag and pjs ready.

Then daddy brings him in and I dress him (he often cries at this stage because he hates getting dressed) then we put him in his sleeping bag and lie him down and read his story... Sometimes he grizzles through it though, in which case we only do a couple of pages, and sometimes he's cheerful, and then he gets a longer story (because we figure he's grizzling because he's knackered). Then we say 'night night, sleepy time', give him a kiss and leave. Usually we hear nothing at all then til 5.30ish, though occasionally he grizzles for five minutes or sometimes we hear his toys rattling about as we go downstairs - we did tonight. If we do have to go in, we pat him on the back (he likes to sleep on his front or side) and say 'its still sleepy time' and walk straight out again - we don't wait for him to stop crying because he only stops when we leave the room! We never ever pick him up.

I suppose if he were poorly or teething, we might pick him up, but he's had two teeth appear and had a cold since we did the sleep training, and neither stopped him sleeping though!

i should add at I have no idea why it worked so easily. I don't claim credit for it. Something just seemed to click inside him - like he thought, 'Oh ok, bedtime is for sleeping, not cuddling!'

Hey Starling - thank you so much for sharing your success story. It definately gives us hope that things CAN improve. I'm also sorry to hear about your lowest moments.. sleep deprivation is definitely a dangerous thing. Not only on our mental state but physically too! I remember a couple weeks back after a very bad night, I had to go somewhere very early, as I was driving I actually felt drunk.. ofcourse I hadnt been drinking! but it was because I was so excruciatingly tired that I felt physically unable to drive! I came home and cried and thought bloody hell.. what am I going to do?...

It would be great if you could give us some more insight to how exactly you did the CC with your DS. As Hazel asked, things like, when you go back in the room how do you comfort etc etc. Also, its interesting how you say your DS fed 2-3 times a night and then didnt wake for a feed. I wonder if my DD is the same, shes drinking so much at night that the next day she isnt interested.

Sycamore Im pleased to hear you also had success with it. Im incredibly sceptical about this topic, part of me says go for it, what have you got to lose right? But then my instincts kick in and I worry that DD will think im abandoning her or something! The idea of her crying herself to sleep pains me something rotten.

Did you both do the same for naps too? I have got to put an end to napping wherever I can get her to sleep..the sofa, the pushchair, the carseat... each place I know isnt good for her, and she gets disturbed by my eldest anyway!

What I'm worried about is doing the CC through the night, DD1 and DD2 rooms are side by side... I dont want to disturb DD1 too much and also DH who is just down the landing. I guess this cant be avoided though.

We had a chat tonight, this week will be the final week DD is in our room. Im going to mentally prepare myself for sleep training and research til my eyes bleed. DD is coming up to 6 months and is ready.

thanks sycamore and starling.

Mariloulou just for a couple of days are your LOs able to sleep at a grandparents or friends?

I understand how you feel about feeling drunk when you're so tired! I almost fell asleep at the wheel yesterday Please make sure you have your DH to hand when you do try sleep training, I believe it's meant to be pretty intense.

Wishing good night's all round

mari, when we go back in, we literally just pat him on the back, resettle him in the middle of the cot if he'd worked his way to top or bottom, and say, "Shush, it's sleepy time" then walk straight back out again. To be honest, it can be a little heartbreaking, especially when we first started, because his cries always ramp up in intensity as soon as we go in, and even more when we go out :( But then he usually shuts up within another couple of minutes.

We do the same for naps, and started at the same time. His naps aren't perfect - on a good day, he does 1.5 hours in the morning, an hour at lunchtime and 30-40 minutes in e early afternoon. I try not to let him nap after 3pm. He used to always nap on my chest - he refused to nap anywhere else. But after doing the sleep training, he nearly always naps in his cot. Occasionally I'll let him sleep on me if he's had a bad nap day (eg waking up after 40 minutes for each nap and clearly still tired after nap 3). When we go out, I do my best to time his naps to fit in with the time he's in the car or pram, because he zonks out five minutes into any car ride and 30 minutes into a walk. That's a little restrictive, but much better than when he only napped in my arms, for 25 minutes at a time, five times a day.

I was completely in despair before. Completely exhausted after every terrible night with no prospect of the next night being anything but as bad. I doubt I was save to drive a lot of the time, and I used to worry dreadfully about DP on his commute. Because DS would only nap on me, I didn't even get to sleep when he slept, but now if I need a kip, I can get my head down for half an hour at least in e afternoon, and that makes all the difference.

Also, not aiming this at anyone in particular but I've got to say, the idea that DH/DP should get to sleep while mum wake up to ten times a night is bullshit! It's very prevalent that because he goes out to work, he should sleep, but fuck that shit, to be frank. You're looking after both of your most treasured possession, that's quite as important as going to work. If you cope ok and the baby is waking twice a night, fair enough, but if you're being driven to the edge by sleep deprivation and your DP is getting to carry on as though nothing in his life has changed, that's not right, IMO. Luckily for me, my DP agreed, otherwise I really think I would have killed myself, it was that bad.

Good idea Hazel, I think I will book in DD1 with the grandparents atleast for the first 2 nights whilst its intense... What I am struggling with is how to feel ok with the thought of DD falling asleep out of pure exhaustion because of crying.. thats probably a bad way to look at it, but its playing on my mind.

Starling, thanks again, your posts are really helpful. If I could get her to nap in the cot for more than 30mins I would be so happy.
Yes your right... I have had countless arguments with my DH over whos "job" it is to get up during the night. Its a touchy subject... I worry about DH as he part drives during his job.. and I have first hand experienced how dangerous it can be. Now, if Im feeling rough, I dont get in the car. But he has no choice. On occasion I can cat nap whilst DD does, be it only 30mins but thats more than he can do. I understand and agree with you though, but im too tired to argue it with him. He has taken over when I have been at the very brink... but in hindsight, I guess it shouldnt have to get to that.

Up 7 or 8 times last night...3 times before 10.30.

And we're back to Monday where the DP is at work another long week ahead.

We have 7 weeks before we could consider trying sleep training. This week is 6 weeks of shitty sleep...the thought of another 7 makes me feel sick

So sorry hazel. It sounds like our babies are regressing during a regression! Rediculous... you must be exhausted. Was DD feeding at each wake?

Im on week 8 of terrible sleeping. Had about 6 days in that period where things "improved" slightly. Last night was ok.

Could you try lighter methods until DD reaches 6 months hazel? PUPD, shush pat again. It might be worth a shot whilst you are effectively waiting until you start proper sleep training. In that time can your DP book a week off work ready for the sleep training so you can nail it together?

At every given moment today try to rest. Even if you only get 30 minutes to snooze. Its so difficult. I hate dreading each coming night.....

She went to bed at 6.45 after an 8.5oz feed. Then an hour later was up and I put her back down, then about half an hour later up again and she was hungry and took 5oz. Then an hour later and had a soaking nappy. Then only fed once more after that. I ended up laying at the bottom of the bed with her near the fan nearly all night.

Glad your night was a little better, I hope your DD keeps it up!

We both struggle with PU PD during the night as she just won't have it, and I struggle with persisting as I'm so tired. I know it's all about persistence but I feel that if I persist I'll literally be awake all night. I know I really need to though.

We've been weaning for 2 weeks so DD is still mainly tasting rather than eating, but as the day goes on she becomes SO hungry. Yesterday she had 1oz on waking, then a few spoonfuls of porridge, 5oz, a few spoonfuls of sweet potato, 7oz, then became starving around 5 so have her a quarter of a banana followed by the 8.5oz bedtime bottle then shortly after another 5oz. she feeds 4 hourly and I've tried bringing them forward but then she snacks and it throws it all out. She then wants to snack through the night and it becomes a nightmare. I'm hoping as time goes on she'll eat more and become more satisfied. She's had 7oz for her first bottle today. When she was sleeping well she always took a bigger bottle of 8oz at bedtime, although now she's a couple of months older and still takes the same and drains the bottle so she's still hungry and could take more! As of tonight we're going to make bigger bottles for bedtime, probably 10oz.

I don't know why the F she's waking during the night, she's just....awake!!

I understand what you mean about hating dreading each night. We'll be cracking on with finishing DD's room and as soon as it's done we'll be putting her in there. That will make me feel a little better just so we can enjoy being in our bedroom again!

Hope others had a good night.

I think if she was satisfied (even if it does take 10oz) at bedtime then she would be able to sleep a longer period initially, but even when she has done previously it still goes tits up after then. Why oh why do they wake SO much?!

You have a very hungry baby indeed!! My DD has never taken an 8oz bottle! At most she will do 7oz, but I have to encourage it. It has been since I started weaning I guess, she loves her food!

did you try moving the feeds to 3 hourly? I read is best to have them take more milk throughout the day rather then stuffing them just before bed. That's easier said then done though. Ive tried cluster feeding and DD just spits it out or pushes bottle away.

I think the waking is mainly for comfort hazel, growth spurts aside, the clever mites know that waking = a feed = a cuddle.
They must learn to self soothe..however I read an article yesterday that said babies can't learn to self soothe. Thats all a myth and only when they grow and develop more mental capacity do they aquire the skills to soothe :S now I don't know what to believe.

DD slept from 7.40pm - 11.20pm without a single wake which is extremely good for her. Then had just 3oz and rolled herself to her side ( this seems to be her preferred sleeping position ) and fell asleep on her own until 2.50am. I tried putting dummy back in but she seemed more awake so I offered the rest of the bottle and she finished it but wasn't going back off alone so I held and rocked for no more than 5 minutes and she was off again til 5.35am.

that is a VERY GOOD night for us! I would happily take that sort of night for years to come rather then a good night then a bad one. I know tonight will be so different..... I dont understand why she cant settle herself from 3am onwards!