Misery Loves Company...nope. Still not sleeping.

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Long-term sleep deprivation getting you down?

Join us here for and plenty of sympathy.

Ride the mo-fo out or something must be done - the choice is yours.

And remember the First Rule of Sleep Club - do not mention that things are going well or you will PAY.

Hello, we're only moving an hour away, closer to DH job. Still close enough to family. But a move's a move!
DD is one, so I think we're in the midst of separation anxiety too. On the childcare front, having now talked to more friends about worries about her sleep there, those friends who've "been there, done that" all say they think nursery better from the point of view of routine and sleeps as she wouldn't be being trekked out for school and nursery runs and would be surrounded by LOs of her own age. I am increasingly tending to agree, particularly having considered the difficulty when childminder is sick. Spoke to a recommended nursery in the new town and feeling encouraged - want a good 4-6 weeks to get her in the routine before next one arrives which should be do-able if we move next month as solicitor predicts!
Good luck with settling both at nursery and in the new house.

Hi all, sorry to hear people are still having a rubbish time of it. We're back in the grip of snotsville and last night was a particular shocker with both DDs taking it in turn. I think I managed about 45 minutes in my own bed at one point...

Currently sat on DD2s floor hoping she's going to go to sleep at some point soon. She was exhausted this afternoon so had a second nap - which I'm now seriously regretting!

DD1 went to a childminder before DD2 came along and it worked well for the most part. She didn't do any school runs though. I felt happy that DD1 had a dedicated person and it was a bit more chilled than nursery. She took DD and the other little one she looked after out and about to playgroups and parks etc much as I did the other days. It's a case of what works best for you and them I think and sometimes can take a while to figure out.

Elph, sorry to hear about the swaddle traumas, I hope things improve soon! This is why I'm too scared to give up the dummy - sometimes when DD2 wakes I can just pop it back in and she's out like a light. She actually just topples forward and is gone, it's hilarious! Sometimes she even just puts into back in herself and I don't have to do anything. Those are lovely nights with only a couple of wake ups

I'm also struggling with the effects on my brain cells. Mostly I forget words. I spent about 5 minutes describing something today and the other gave me a puzzled look and said "oh you mean 'x'?". I'd forgotten that there was even a word for it! Obviously it might be a funny story if I could just remember what that word was or even what the conversation was about...

Mmm, interesting, I hadn't thought about the sleep routine being a reason to prefer nursery. On what I've seen so far I'm not convinced that being surrounded by peers is much of an advantage at this age (though my DS is that bit younger than your DD), I have heard the 'they'll all sleep at the same time' thing but I suspect that as with so many other sleep tricks, DS will be the exception to the rule!

hello can i join please my ds is 4 months, i appreciate the 4m sleep regression is A Thing but really, we had nothing at all to regress from, hourly wakenings have been fairly standard for a very long time and im definitely getting holes in my brain! There was a couple of weeks of success with a love to dream swaddle (we got to regular 3 hour stretches) but then he started rolling so couldnt use it. I just bought no cry sleep solution, anyone used it?

Not going to lie - there is a shit-ton of crying going on here with this sleep work It's giving me horror flash-backs to all the times I left DS1 to cry. Fuck, I hope it works but I'm not feeling very confident ATM

Fratutcula DS1 napped absolutely fine at nursery and to their schedule. They'd get the bedding bundles out at a set time each day and apparently he'd go to his. Then he'd lie down. Then he'd go to sleep. Would never do anything of the sort for me. Car, pram or on me, only. I went through a brief and lovely phase of him napping in his bed, but it would take so damn long to get him there, and he'd be so comfy once he got there, that they'd end way too late and be way too long.

DS2 is doing his first half-day at nursery tomorrow. They have yet to get him sleeping but he certainly eats fine. After DH takes them in tomorrow morning, I am going to go upstairs, get in MY bed, BY MYSELF, and SLEEP. Can't. Wait.

Hi dairy. Yes - a lot of us have tried NCSS. General consensus, I think, is that it was the only one of the sleep books that we got any positive effects from, but they were generally pretty insignificant effects, really.

Oh Elph that must be awful. This is what I'm dreading when we move on to our next phase this weekend. It just bloody sucks doesn't it. I really hope he settles down soon for you.

Ds seems to have recovered and ate well yesterday which was a relief. Just had to deal with middle of the night poo which was fun! Thankfully rare for him but meant he was awake for an hour.

OK, slightly different scenario, but sleep deprivation linked. My DD has taken to waking at 4 and not returning to sleep, unless on our bedroom floor/ in our bed. I'm a light sleeper and wake up fully when she is wandering around. This has been going on for three weeks and I am shattered. Her age - 11 yrs old. I thought I'd be long out of sleep deprivation by now. Grrrrrrrrrr

We have a childminder as well. More one to one attention was the main reason and we were lucky that DD was the only child there in her first week so settled relatively quickly. However, sleep was also a consideration as I suspected that with so much going on at a nursery DD would be too busy being nosy to sleep! Even at the childminder she has to be rocked or pushed in pram. I hope you find something that works for you Fratercula, knowing they are upset is awful.

Any joy with the swaddle yet Elph?

I can't help with NCSS, dairyfree but would maybe give a bit longer...I know a lot of babies who dramatically improved at around 6 months. That probably feels a long way off now though!

Spring is it nightmare related perhaps? Can she read in bed until she's sleepy again?

Dairy I agree, some babies come out of the 4 month regression though mine didn't. In any case ncss is very gentle so it couldn't hurt to try some of its suggestions in the meantime.

Ah, Spring! I have personal experience of this!

I slept on my mum's floor for 1.5-2 years between the ages of 10-ish and 11-ish. I was recently on another thread where someone's DD is also suddenly wakeful at the age of 10. I'm convinced there's a pre-puberty sleep regression (joy...just when you think it's all over...) linked to a kind of separation anxiety. During this time I was convinced that either mum was going to die suddenly or I was. It was a pretty horrible, scary time, but being in with mum definitely helped and I just got over it in my own time. The difference, though, is that I was an only child and she was a single mum so there was no DH to turf out or siblings to complicate matters. She made it a very fun and cuddly time and it never happened again.

Do you have room for her to sleep on your floor, just until she rides the mo fo out?

Gah, 39 minute nap today!

Elph hope you had a lovely quiet sleep all to yourself!
I've had a bit of a skim through the no-cry sleep solution, there are some helpful points. Although I have to admit that last night DD was just not settling with me in the room, so I left her for 5 min crying, then she settled after a cuddle. Can't bring myself to do any longer crying or to let her cry it out as she gets so worked up I iust think there must be so much adrenaline going round her little body. I stayed up late working and was just too tired to battle with keeping her in her own room for wake-ups so brought her in with me at 11.30. Poor thing, consistency is not my strong point at the moment, rather survival!

40 bastard minutes. My children have ruined my ability to get past one sleep cycle.

Chocolate I don't forget words but I have developed an alarming habit of switching the first letters of two words next to one another, I must sound permanently drunk.

We are moving on to the next stage of the sleep plan as of tonight - fewer props and feeding, so I am bracing myself too for a lot more crying.

Dairy we read NCSS too but it didn't seem to get us very far - partly because she says 'make a plan and stick to it' - well we were in too far gone a state to make a half-decent plan, and constantly doubted it was the right plan anyway. Also her wakeful baby seems to have been a pretty chilled sort, just wanted the comfort of feeding back to sleep every hour. Not like DS who will often be awake for 2 hours in the night, sometimes more than once a night, even when fed, and does a lot of screaming during his wake-ups...

How was DS2's first half-day at nursery Elph? I'm going back shortly to collect DS... he's no doubt been yelling the place down for 3 hours again :(

He was fine. Didn't eat a thing, although drained the bottle of EBM I sent in with him and had two twenty minute naps. Trying to convince myself he fell asleep camly, gently stroking his toy dog...

Elph - to answer your previous pondering... I don't want to risk the curse of the thread (again) by mentioning anything good that may or may not be happening.
I also found the NCSS useful, it did help improve naps a little. Unfortunately, to make any real changes took a bit of crying here.
I hope all the Ann magic starts working soon ladies. And Elph sorry to hear that the first day of nursery was tricky. The hardest day is out of the way at least .

Good luck for tonight Fratercula

thanks for replies about ncss sleep solution, i realise its not a magic bullet but it makes sense to me and it does at least make me feel like im doing something! And its helped me move on from the "im sending him back so he can have a proper mum!" at 4am stage!

i sort of fibbed about ds's sleeping this week, mainly to avoid my sil's smug advice... do you tell the truth when people ask?

God I feel at my wits end this morning. DD2 was up all night coughing and crying. I didn't even make it to my bed until 2.30 and she woke again screaming at 4.20. And that was the end of my night. I actually had a little sob on DD1's floor this am when she woke at 5.50. Literally 8 minutes after I finally snuck out of DD2's room.

Don't know how I'm going to get through today without losing it completely.

Dairy, I'm usually pretty honest although I think I'm in a minority. Pisses me off, I think the world would be a slightly better place if people were just truthful about their child's sleep (or lack thereof).

Oh chocolate what a horrendous night.Have some and crack open the green and blacks. And I agree about being honest about sleep, don't see the point in lying, I want as much sympathy as I can get! Also means I have a real life sleep club too with friends in the same boat.

How are all you sleep planners getting on? Keeping my fingers crossed for everyone.

I have NCSS too but like frat have always been too exhausted to use it to make a coherent plan and stick to it. Hoping that's where Anne will help.

We have used the world's best childminder for DD1 and DD2 will go there too. She's brilliant and DD1 who is shy has thrived in the setting. She's very flexible with naps, some kids in cot, some in buggies, some cuddled to sleep on bed or sofa. I looked at nurseries but couldn't imagine DD1 there, but every child is different and I'm not sure how you pick a childminder without a personal recommendation, my friend was already using ours with her DS. Such a hard decision to make.

And welcome to all the new people, sorry you have to be here too!

Inch-wise progress here, scotty, but all in the right direction and at the right pace for DS. I know from bitter experience that three day miracles are useless in the long term.

Sorry for your horrible night Chocolate Honestly, I would have been committed to an institution by now if I had to manage both DCs during the day the way you do on the lack of sleep we get.

dairy I tell the absolute truth, with a blaze in my eye which says, 'Go on, try telling me it's my fault. JUST FUCKING TRY ME.' and people leave well alone

Hello everyone I haven't had a chance to rtft as DD is yet again doing downward dog and pulling herself up in her cot instead of sleeping -despite being very tired and practically asleep before I tried to put her down currently am leaving her to it whilst I look for some respite on mn.

She was a good sleeper when younger, then it got slowly worse around doing six months. But around 2 weeks ago the not sleeping has gone into overdrive as she came up to the 9 month mark. Two bottom teeth have appeared which is part of the problem, and I think we have also committed the cardinal sin of associating bottle with sleep, which I have been trying to stop for a few days now. Last night she was up for 3 hours just wanting a bottle even though she wasn't hungry (she never finishes a night feed she just uses them to get to sleep) and dh and I nearly had a huge row about it at 2 am. Every time I nearly had her asleep he came out and woke her up I was so

She had a sort of routine, she'd nap for an hour in the morning and again in the afternoon and is always out no later than 8ish. Sometimes with a lunchtime snooze too. We still follow that pattern of sorts except the naps are power naps and she never sleeps properly imo

It doesn't help that our lives are disrupted at the moment because we are living for the foreseeable future with PIL and she is in a room with us. DH and I also swapped places - he was a sahd and now I am back with her. They are nice but they clunk around and then sleeping in the same room as us means she has to content with dh snoring like a train. There is also nowhere in the flat which is dark so she can nap although I have tried to make a tent of sorts over her cot. So bless her she had a lot of upheaval as well. DH also always soothes her at night, even though I tell him to leave her to it. We sometimes put her between us and we sleep whilst she wiggles around. It's desperation really not a sound strategy.

She's a fab baby and so cute. But how the fuck do you get a baby to nap when all they do is stand up and roll around and then hit their heads because they fall over and no matter how you put them down to sleep they just stay awake! Sometimes I put her in our bed and wait for her to conk out due to exhaustion. That seems like not the way to do it.

Sorry that was such a rant. She's so funny and clever and it makes me sad to see dark circles under her eyes because we can't get the sleep thing sorted out. I feel like a shit parent I am so fed up with conflicting advice on the Internet that makes no sense. I will go back and have a read of this thread as I am sure there is lots of good advice. Thank you all.

Thanks for the sympathy Scotty and Elph, how were your nights? Glad to hear DS2 is making some progress Elph, even if it's slow, it's in the right direction.

Thank fuckfully I do work part time otherwise I would have gone batshit crazy by now. Work is my blissful break for a few hours a week.

I don't get how anyone manages to get two children dressed and out of the house before 8.30 am though. We went to a music class this morning and only just made it due to DD1s tantrums over getting dressed and my inability to handle it very well today. The class was at 10.30 am

DD2 is asleep so I'm treating myself to some and sofa time while DD1 watches crap on telly has some quiet time. Ignoring the full dishwasher/sink/washing machine/tumble dryer for now which no doubt I'll regret later!

Made the mistake of reading some other sleep threads last night. Of course there was one where OP's 6 month old who had been STTN 7 - 7 suddenly decided to start waking at 5. Obviously OP and her husband were exhausted and struggling to cope...

OP got very sniffy when some people (rather more gently than I might) suggested that things could actually be much worse... I should really know better than to read these threads as I just get

Chocolate sorry you had such a rubbish night. Glad you're managing to put your feet up for a while. Never a good idea to read the threads of those who are devastated at suddenly losing an hour of sleep after months of uninterrupted nights. They do not have a clue!

Elph glad things are moving in the right direction for you, hopefully it will continue.

Scotty we don't move onto the next stage until tomorrow due to DH's availability so have been coasting for a few days. Tomorrow we start trying to break the feeding to sleep association and I am dreading it. I can only hope it won't be as bad as I expect.

Dairy I don't bother to lie, I can't see the point. So far nobody has given an unsolicited diagnosis, well not to my face anyway!

Living that sounds like a very tough situation and not one with an easy solution. Teething is always a bastard but will pass. It seems like she's also trying to perfect her new standing skills, hopefully that will ease too when the novelty is over? Sorry, no solutions but lots of and sympathy.