Misery Loves Company...nope. Still not sleeping.

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Long-term sleep deprivation getting you down?

Join us here for and plenty of sympathy.

Ride the mo-fo out or something must be done - the choice is yours.

And remember the First Rule of Sleep Club - do not mention that things are going well or you will PAY.

No, Penguins you don't whinge I just have a habit of making a mental note of those with bona fide non-sleepers, so if I see them dishing out advice, I don't think, 'Yeah? Well what would YOU know?' and get ranty.

Well I would never claim to have it as tough as some. Past 18 months and 2 my older ones have been good. My cousin was 8 before he slept through

Needsweets- I can get quite ranty on this subject. All that stuff like 'put them down drowsy ' and 'leave them for five minutes to self settle ' rely on a basically good sleeper to start with. DD2 especially you would have nuclear meltdown if you tried that. You haven't done anything wrong.

I have tried both paths. DD1 was awake and screaming for two hours every night. plus another 4+ wake ups. We ended up doing cc at 11 months as we felt the two hours of screaming had to stop somehow. It worked, but she woke for the day at 5 am for months afterwards. DD2 woke every 2 hours until about 22 months the suddenly started doing one waking at 5.

Penguins you've summed up exactly how I've found others advice - put them down drowsy only works if DD ill....I can tell when she's tired but never manage to find her drowsy to put in her cot, or if she is looking tired, she can change in a minute!

That's where I remember you from of late, Penguins. You had a particularly splendid rant that I was nodding at vigorously at where you made a similar excellent point, among several others.

You know the thread. The one where some genius said earlier in the piece that her babies slept because she expected them to sleep...

Mumsnet does not provide a stabby-rage-purple-faced emoticon, otherwise I'd have responded with a smattering of those.

You ladies are great! Hope your little ones let you sleep a but last night. The night before mine had me up 6 times, last night he just got up at 12 and 2! My mother's day treat, lol... Happy Mothers Day you all

Needsweets that is a positive treat for Mother's Day! Mine was better as the prolonged wake was done by 1.30 last night instead of between 2-4am the night before. When I used to work nightshifts 4ish seemed to be the worst time to be awake, and it still feels the same!

Oh gosh, yes Elphaba. I do remember that thread. I did rant rather.

I just get so annoyed when the advice to mothers struggling with poor sleep is "it's your fault. You fucked up. You broke them". Even when your child has fallen into habits you need to break (like feeding to sleep every time), that has usually happened because they were a difficult sleeper. With all three of my children, it was basically a choice between helping them sleep and doing something approximating CIO on a newborn.

The more time goes on, the more I think it's largely genetic (I know you've talked about that before). I didn't sleep through until 2.5. Mind you, in my own defence, the last 6-12 months were getting up for a wee. If you take a child that young out of night nappies, what do you expect . I think they were darn lucky I was waking up!

Happy mothers day all. Hope you got some sleep.

A bit late on the uptake here but am watching with anticipation!

Hello ladies and particularly hello to anyone new. I've been a little awol as believe it or not DD2's sleep has been so bad that I've even found it hard reading how most of your DCs are doing as I find myself crying with jealousy, how sad is that on a thread for parents of non sleepers! Would pay serious money right now for DD to wake every 1-2 hours then go back to sleep! Coping with copious chocolate, chocolate you'd approve of my mother's day gift, three bars of green and blacks. Absolutely the only thing I feel I have going for me right now is a genetic predisposition to burn calories at an alarming rate while breastfeeding making it possible, and even necessary, to cope with lack of sleep with lots of food

How is everyone getting on with the various sleep consultants/ill children/teething/de-swaddling etc? Have been thinking of you all and hope some of you got the gift of sleep last night, I got a baby awake for 4.5 hours

Oh dear scotty

To give you something to look forward to, I shall smash the rules of sleep club and let you in on DS2's improvements with Ann so far:

• either DH or I can put him to bed now without any crying
• he's almost consistently doing 2.5-3 hours in his cot from there at the start of the night. If he wakes up before then, he'll often put himself back to sleep, or it'll be a matter of a minute on my part.
• he then comes in with me and he's started doing a three to four hour stretch when he's first in. 'Normal' service of hourly wake-ups resumes after that, but it's nudges in the right direction
• he's done a few naps in his cot from wide-awake to asleep. A couple of days, we've even got two cot naps in. None of these have lasted longer than forty minutes yet (some only twenty) but it's progress!
• he's still in the Swaddle Up, but it's incredibly easy to use and doesn't need re-doing the way the full swaddle with the sheet did, so I'm at peace with it. With the improvements we've had, I feel slightly panicky at the thought of getting rid of it now.

We've still got four weeks to go with Ann (yes, we've officially extended to the six week programme because he's such a tough cookie), so I'm hopeful of yet more improvements.

When do you start with Ann now? She's lovely, very sympathetic and won't expect you to be pulling all-nighters with a screaming baby. She designs it in tiny, manageable chunks in order to optimise your sleep as well.

Oh I'm so pleased it's going well! Any improvement must seem amazing, long may it continue

DD2 has just projectile vomited everywhere which may explain last night!

Well there we go. Look on the bright side: did she avoid your hair or your open mouth? If yes to one/both - result.

Scotty hope the vomiting doesn't become too bad, at least you have some explanation for your particularly bad night.
Elphaba good to hear of the progress, baby steps and all that....

Even better, she threw up while in a full body armour bib in the highchair! We start with Ann this week, can wait!

Oops, meant can't!

Scotty, sorry to hear you are having such a crap time of it . If it makes you feel any better, after my Mother's Day gift of only 3 wake ups on Saturday night, DD1 did the 1 - 3.30 am stretch last night and only went back to sleep once I stuck two fingers up at consistency and all bollocks sleep rules and brought her into our bed (which was what she wanted all along). DD2 then dutifully started yelling about 4.10, just as I was dropping off to sleep. She managed to keep going until 6.30 am. I was then woken by the bin men just after 7. Both kids and OH slept till 8.30 (he had a day off today).

Fucking brilliant. We've recently had a new bed and after last night, DD1 has spent more consecutive hours in it than I have. By a factor of at least 2.

Better go, that'll be DD2 screaming dulcet tones calling me...

Oh chocolate that sounds pants . I don't know about you but it's the not going back to sleep for ages that I find the real killer rather than the number of wake ups so your night sounds awful.

I'm just feeding DD2 then I'm off to crack open my second bar of green and blacks in as many days...

I think Easter is the best time of year for the sleep-deprived. I polished off half a bag of Mini Eggs yesterday. I can hear the rest of the bag calling me from the bread bin where I hid them from DH...with a coffee methinks...

I'm on a large chocolate chip cookie and a cuppa. Thankfully a rather better night last night otherwise would have been seriously grumpy today!

Yes, Scotty I agree its the long ones that really kill me as I struggle to go back to sleep even once they have finally given in. And its pretty much guaranteed that the other will wake as soon as I finally do drop off. I wish DD1 would verbalise her issues a bit more at night. I'd find it slightly easier to deal with if I actually knew what the problem was.

Elph, am looking forward to "helping" DD1 out with her Easter eggs - only for her own good y'know

elph we keep our chocolate in the bread bin too, no bread there at all!

chocolate how old is your DD1? DH and I still sleep in separate rooms so that he can do DD1 if she wakes while I'm in our room with DD2. Cuts down our wakings a bit but it does suck being apart. DD1 has reached peak monster fear age unfortunately and is a genetically early waker but does manage to sttn about half the time, used to be more but DH still has the better deal!

Scotty she's just turned 3 and think is just hitting the nightmare/night terror stage. She now wakes usually once each night screaming. She was doing better, only waking 2/3 times a week but recently its been every flipping night! Its OK if its like last night when it took about 2 minutes of gently patting her back and she was out again. But DD2 now occasionally does a decent stretch and you can guarantee that DD1 will time her wake up for right in the middle thus ensuring I never get to sleep through the whole stretch!

OH has a long commute so only does the night shift at weekends - and TBH he's so fecking useless when woken its generally easier to get up myself. I think the DDs would have starved if he'd be responsible for night feeds!

My DD1 is 3.5 so sadly I think you probably are reaching monsters/nightmares age too chocolate .

OH has just royally fucked up bedtime by having an argument with DD1 over her toothbrush (she was trying to steal DD2s but I had already dealt with it). Ended up with him not letting her clean her teeth (WTAF?!?!?), gigantic mother of all tantrums because she is shattered and him dumping her in bed and shutting the gate on her screaming on the floor. It's just taken me 40 minutes to calm her down enough to go to sleep and now DD2 is still wide awake from all the noise.

So it looks like I'm in for a good night doesn't it? Could bloody murder him. Honestly I swear he's had some sort of lobotomy when it comes to toddlers.

Hopefully DD2 has just about settled as I really need some !

Hope you've had some Chocolate I also have a somewhat useless OH. although he does mean well, he just doesn't really have a clue. In the end I was so fed up of being a prisoner in my own bedroom at night that I decided to go out last Friday and left him in charge of DD at bedtime for the first time ever.

I got home at midnight to find him rocking DD in her swing chair in front of a film in the living room. she was asleep, but it had taken him 2hrs as he hadn't even started trying to get her to sleep until 10pm

she's been a terror the last few nights as well and has developed a strange wailing cry as soon as it gets dark. I think its some sort of punishment for me going out and having fun without her. Already woken up screaming at 9.30 after taking about an hour to settle and now I'm once again sat in a dark room feeding her. Good luck all for tonight!