Catnappers and 'bad sleepers' support thread

[AwesomeSuperTasty]

This is inspired by this napping thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/2123505-Any-advice-for-daytime-naps A user commented that they wanted to start a catnapping thread, but seeing as no one did, I thought I might start a 'support group' for all parents of catnapping babies and generally poor sleepers. (I hope the user who prompted this thought will come forward to claim the credit!)

Anyway, it's really just a place to vent and maybe share experiences.

So, I will start. My 7 month old son still catnaps 30 mins at a time, something he allegedly should have grown out of. He also wakes every 90 minutes at night, and wakes up at 5.30 in the mornings. He self settles to sleep and has an early bed time but can't resettle at night. Basically, since he was born, I've not slept longer than 2 hours at a stretch. I'm sure I'm pretty exhausted but stopped registering it.

I do have some questions for anyone who'd like to share.

• If you have an older catnapping baby, how long does she/he go between naps?

-Has anyone managed to sucessfully implement some kind of a napping schedule, for babies who sleep only 30 mins?

And please don't tell me to get a sling...or co-sleep

Coodle, I know what you mean about having only 90 min to do everything, same here.

Pickle, hope your DS has settled in at nursery.
We are still battling 30 min naps, and 2-hourly wake ups at night. Have decided to do night weaning as some kind of a gentler version of sleep training, or whatever. Starting tonight! Can't bear any more broken nights!

Currently hiding on the floor next to the cot trying some bizarre attempt at self setting! She's laying there with a muslin in each hand, singing and thumping her legs. Been awake for 2hrs 25mins after an hour in the buggy this afternoon (miracle).

Got the white noise on as usual, and tried the hand on chest thing but that made her too excited so now I'm hiding.

I give it three minutes until I give up and rock her to sleep. I'm weak willed and want my dinner!

Oh the leg thumping! DS discovered that early on and was his main source of entertainment for about 5 weeks. He still does it but. It lost its novelty once he learned how to roll/turn over!

Your DC sounds very much like my DS, coddle; through A LOT of trial and error, we realised that the more we intervened, the worse he became. He simply loves to interaction so the constant shhh/hand on tummy/me being in the room etc. just wound him up as he couldn't work out why I wouldn't play with him.

The only thing that has worked is a diet version of CC. Dummy in,his Bears in both hands, Muslin over his face (needs to have his face covered to sleep) and left to it. I thought he'd go ballistic but it turns out that he needed to wind down on his own. First few times he would cry/grizzle for 15m or so (with us going in every 5m to replace dummy/reassure). Now, after a story and a cuddle, he'll go down instantly.

Softly, softly just didn't work for him, he is just too wired to the moon spirited.

DS did another good stretch last night-only up at 4 for a quick resettle. Naps are really odd at the mo; he's only managing 1h 30m after his morning wake up before he needs to nap (and will do 45m only) but then he's doing a 3h stretch and isn't even that grumpy. Early pm nap ranges from 60m to...3 hours! After the 60m mark I Was so convinced that he would wake up in 10m, I didn't bother doing anything.

I could have tidied, had a bath, probably written a bloody novel. Grrrrrr

Awesome, I've got very good at managing to cram lots of things into such a short period of time!

Pickle, aggghhhhh the leg thumping! She does it in the middle of the night too, waking me up... One HV (ugh) said "oh, you're so ~in tune~ with her if every little noise wakes you up!" - er no, she's bloody loud when she gets going. Glad to know she not the only thumper...

Last night did not go well. After singing until 7:45pm she then started crying. I left the room for a few minutes to no avail, then went and sat next to her shhing and patting for 10mins until I broke and picked her up. She was soaked through from sweat and fell asleep immediately over my shoulder. Then she woke up an hour later screaming (another nightmare), but did sleep through until 5:30am...

And to answer your previous question about the Ranitidine: to be fair I don't think she actually has reflux. I think it's always been lactose intolerance but they refused to diagnose her with that despite her Dad having it and, y'know, the EVIDENCE. It was a long battle to get any kind of diagnosis for my miserable, unsettled baby, so we went with the reflux idea for ages until I decided enough was enough. Since the doctors finally listened she's been mostly fine with eating/not being sick. Going to see if reducing her dose makes her any worse as I'd rather not be giving her revolting meds she doesn't need!

But, one piece of good news: MY HUSBAND HAS JUST GOT HER DOWN FOR A NAP FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE JUNE. I could cry with joy.

We're still in crap nap territory here, though she's now dropped the 4th nap. She's ending up in bed by 6.30 because her last nap finishes anytime between 2.30 (very bad day!) and 4pm, depending on her morning wake up time. She's also proving to be rubbish at napping when we're out of the house. She's just too nosey and wants to take it all in!

Still crappy naps here too. A whole 5 min this morning plus it's becoming more d

Oops. More difficult to settle DS for naps. Difficult night too, awake literally every hour screaming. Going to work tomorrow but will sleep in the office I reckon! Co sleeping out of desperation but I seem to get even less sleep that way.

Hi all - been away at a festival with the baby who's been massively put if routine so I've had a challenging few days with him being overtired and not sleeping when he clearly wants to.

This morning he woke at 8 and didn't nap til 11:15 and is still asleep an hour later.

I desperately want to get him back in his routine because he's not really a happy chappy at the moment.

Frankel - the snooze shade is literally my saviour for getting him to nap when out and about. Now he drops off within minutes of it going on.

Mrsmugoo amazing stuff about the festival! Did you camp? Where did your DS sleep? I'd love to be able to do something like this (but probably never will revisit my festival going days!)

Yes we camped - we have a pretty big bell tent and we we're in a special friends and family area because my husband works as part of the organisers so we also had access to proper toilets.

I took the cot mattress and butted it up against our double airbed but I brought DS in with me by 5am both nights because his little hands were like icicles!

We put him in his pjs and snuggled him up in his pushchair and took him out in the evening and he slept on and off til about 10pm when I headed back to the tent and fed and put him down for the night. He only woke for one other feed and slept til about 8am so good as gold!

Mrs-I am so impressed you braved a festival! I struggle to be organised enough to leave the house before midday; can't imagine ever having the wherewithal to do anything nearly as ambitious!!

DS is in teething hell. Won't eat, won't sleep and won't take his sodding dummy. Shattered.

I know pickle, I'm impressed by mrsmugoo as well! And the baby mugoo only woke once!

How long has your soon been teething pickle? Sending you support!

Oh yeah, tiredness starting to catch up with me too. Was in a meeting today and couldn't think of certain words and actually found it difficult to talk?! Felt like I was drunk actually. :/ need to sort out sleeping ASAP. I keep saying it but I never do it!

Teething started around about the 12 week mark but his bottom teeth have been trying to pop through the gum for the last 7-10 days. Well, I think it's that based on the agony of his fangs biting into my fingers; seems a teether isn't remotely as effective as my poor digits.

Problem is that he won't let me anywhere hear his mouth so administering Calpol/ambesol/teething powder is almost impossible. His dummy-his main source of comfort-clearly hurts him so he's just miserable.

He woke up howling last night at about 9pm and was completely inconsolable. After about 40m he let me put a tiny bit of ambesol on his gums and then he passed out instantly.

WHY DOES HE INSIST ON MAKING EVERYTHING A FLIPPIN' BATTLE??!

Not checked in for a while but it's certainly it because I've got a dream sleeper all of a sudden. I'm afraid this is going to be a self-indulgent whine so please bear with me.

Naps have regressed over the last week or so to the point that I think we're pretty much now back to square one. Have had to go back to four naps a day as they're never longer than 30 mins, sometimes less. If she has less than about two hours during the day then she's impossible to get down at bedtime and she will be inconsolable.

After a monumental effort I'd got her going down in her cot brilliantly (if only for short periods!) but she's started to reject it again. Huge meltdown this morning having gone down like a dream but woken five minutes later and I'm currently hiding in the kitchen drinking tea while DH deals with it.

Tears (mine!) most days this week - hasn't been this bad for ages. I'm irrationally stressed about it - I've got this constant tight feeling in my stomach about when/how/if the next nap will happen. I know I'm being unreasonable but just can't seem to go with the flow and accept it. I get so cross about it which is just ridiculous. Do try incredibly hard not to show it but still - she's five months old FFS. Who gets cross with a five month old? Currently feeling like a thoroughly shitty mum.

Sorry. Self-indulgence over.

I hope everyone else is doing better. Mrsmugoo, have you managed to get back on track?

Hi all,

I haven't checked in for ages either. Naps are up and down but now I just don't have time to stress about it. Some days she has four 30 minute naps or less, some days she will go down for a longer nap. Thing is, I don't make near as much effort now. I put her down with her dummy and some music and that's it. No rocking or anything. I can't with a toddler hanging off my leg! If we go out then naps are much harder to come by. I just don't really have time to keep track due and I am really tired so am a lot less stressed than I was. Just more resigned. I have embraced the dummy too. Just had to in the end.

I think as long as she doesn't wake too much at night then when she gets to six months I will reassess as that is when the object permanence kicks in and sleep can go all screwy again. Sigh.

High love - what can I say other than the frustration is exhausting in itself. It's probably a sleep regression. Mine had a week of barely napping. I think it was a developmental leap. Just had to go with it.

Hi all, been so busy that I've not had time to look in. Hope everyone is ok.

Highlove, don't feel bad I am sure you are a wonderful mum!
Fwiw, I also reached a low point around the 5 month mark. It's sort of the time when all the frustration builds up. :( but also, fwiw I found that my own approach to the catnaps and poor sleep went in phases - I was ok about it, then it made me cry every day for a week, then I was ok about it again etc. Sorry, am rambling but I wish I had something useful to say!

Good luck Popalina, hope all is going well!

Pickle, how's it going?

Sleep over here is still elusive. For the first time ever, DS slept two long naps in the day (prob not to be repeated) however instead of making his night sleep better it made it worse! He has been actually wide awake for about 30 mins now, 3 hours after falling asleep. That's really usual.

Right. It's 9pm here and I'm going to head off to sleep (hahhhaa).

Having an utterly utterly shit time here.

Currently camped out in the dark in the bedroom yet again while DS sleeps on the double bed having been fed to sleep. FFS

I'm on my phone and I want to type a proper post about this on my laptop when he wakes - I was going to start a new thread but I think only other Mums of shit catnappers will even remotely relate and I don't want to simply be told he's overtired & put him down earlier or does he have food allergies which seem to be the standard go-to answers on the sleep board!

after having a lovely week of selfsettling for majority of naps last week, this week has been terrible.
I've also had to feed to sleep for most naps.
its even more frustrating when you've had a really good week previously
I feel ur pain mrsmugoo!
oh and of course it was catnaps all round!

Oh bloody hell, sorry to hear everyone is having a rubbish time if it. It's really shitty, isn't it? I really feel this is kind of spoiling what should be such a lovely time.

Mrsmugoo, I think you're right that others don't relate. When I've mentioned it to NCT friends I've felt almost a bit if judging from some, like it's maybe my fault a bit. Might be my paranoia/over-sensitivity about the situation, though. Rationally I know I'm trying really hard, and it's reassuring to come on here and know I'm not alone, but there's still a big part of me that feels like I'm just doing something wrong.

So as for us, yesterday was shite. 2x30 and 2x25 and each one was a battle. Randomly went down fine this morning and did 35 mins in cot. I felt really positive and suggested we go out for lunch. Put her down again on the dot of two hours wake time, nodded off and woke screaming six minutes later. Once again I'm hiding in the kitchen while DH handles it. Lunch out is off.

Hoping everyone has a better day than it looks like we're going to.

Shite week. Baby pickle has been transitioning to nursery and sleep is all over the place. He seems to love it but he starts full time on Tuesday and I've got the guilt. Doesn't help that he's refusing to nap for them at all and they're not feeding him enough, hence him refusing to even try sleeping.

Teething+hunger+new people+new environment=grumpbag DS who won't sleep at all during the day and wakes every hour, on the hour, during the night.

Good job I'm not back to work this week...oh, wait...yes I am.

Seems like its been a crap week for everyone; maybe it's the change in temperature!

So finally found the time to come on here on my laptop and type a proper post. Had a bit of a meltdown at home to DH yesterday but feeling a bit better about things today but here's the situation.

We got back from the little festival last Sunday and I knew it might take DS a little while to get back on his normal schedule but 8 days later and he is still totally haywire and not going down for naps in his cot like he was before. He seems to have forgotten how to self settle in the day time and it's really stressing me out.

I've tried CC again and after about half an hour when he is exhausted he will finally find his fingers to suck and fall asleep, only to wake about 20 minutes later.

Also since we've been back he seems to want to stay awake a lot longer than before (he was a clock work 2 hours awake baby) and so we've only managed 2 sleeps per day most days. It might be a co-incidence and we might just be transitioning to 2 naps a day but if I put him down in the cot and he only sleeps for 20 minutes twice in a day he can't get through to bed time like this and I've had histrionics and had to take him out in the pushchair about 5:30 and let him have an emergency 40 winks. Early bedtime is one thing but I can't put him down at 5:30!

I've tried putting him down after 2 hours regardless of if he looks tired but he simply isn't tired and won't sleep. I'm pretty good at knowing when he's tired now.

So the alternative to this nap time armageddon is bringing him into the double bed and feeding him off to sleep lying down and he has stayed asleep for between 1-2.5 hours. Yesterday afternoon I fed him in the living room, scooped him up and we snuggled into the double bed and he drifted off without being fed to sleep next to me without sucking his fingers and stayed asleep 2 bloody hours! I've taken him in the double bed after one of his 20 minute cot sleeps and managed to feed him back to sleep for over an hour too so I know he is tired but he just can't seem to sleep in the cot!

My DH and other family members just don't get why I am so stressed and keep saying things like "stop being so hung up on routine" and "at least your nights are ok" both of which INFURIATE me because sure, a routine would be nice but it's not the change of routine that's bugging me but the fact he seems to be going through a day time sleep regression that results in either loads of crying/painfully short sleeps/super grumpy and overtired baby OR I resort back to feeding/cuddling to sleep and having to be with him in the bedroom for his sleeps and feeling very low because it's such a such backwards step for me after a lot of hard work to get where we were.

I fed him to sleep and held him in my arms for every single daytime nap up to 3.5. months and co-slept until 4 months so I have done my fair share of "just getting through the day/night" / taking the path of least resistance - we had really got to a good place, even with his short naps where I would spot his tired signs and simply plop him down in his cot in his grobag and within 5 minutes he'd be asleep with no fuss. I could use my 40 minute blocks of freedom to get dressed, tidy up, hang washing, prepare dinner…basically just the bare minimum to be able to feel back in control of my life again.

This new schedule seems to also be resulting in some very late bedtimes - 9:30 some nights which doesn't leave me with an evening. I was putting him down at 7:30 and having 3 hours to myself to cook dinner, watch a bit of TV and wind down but now I'm having to eat on the fly, put him to bed and literally have an hour comatose on the sofa before collapsing into bed.

I feel very low about this - it's all consuming for me, it's not like I have anything else in my life at the moment to distract me from my baby's napping! I'm sure everyone around me thinks I'm being completely mental but it's ME that has to deal with this day in day out - which is why it infuriates me when my DH says at least your nights are ok - sure, I'm getting some 3 hour blocks of sleep but my entire day is stressful and this is somehow OK??

I just wish somebody could help me. Maybe my expectation are too high but I really though at 5 months things would not be this hard.

Oh Mrsmugoo, I'm really sorry to hear this. Apart from your baby being a boy not a girl, I think we're basically the same person!

By five months I also thought things would have settled down. Nobody - DH included - gets why I'm so stressed about it, either. I think most people just don't get that our babies won't just catch up on a missed nap. Our babies don't miss a nap, get over-tired and then sleep for a few hours later. They still only do 25 sodding minutes.

I am driven mad by the not tired/over-tired/hungry/wrong colour bloody socks lines that people trot out. I've tried every bloody variation you can think of and my baby just can't routinely sleep for more than about 35 minutes during the day. I also get the 'sleeps well at night' line. Yes she does, but only if I basically bully a certain amount if sleep into her by day, regularly resulting in tears all round. And even so, she is still constantly, chronically over-tired.

It's definitely dtopping us doing stuff. It worries me hugely how all this is affecting her development. And we're due to go on holiday next month. I basically don't want to go because it will fuck up what pathetic sleep we do get. Dreading it.

So, no sdvice that will help at all. But buckets of empathy and a manly pat on the back/hug, whichever you prefer.

Pinning my hopes that solids will help somehow. Please...

Btw, despite not really getting it, my DH had started muttering about getting a sleep consultant in. In thinking we leave it till after our hols when she'll be seven months.

Any thoughts?

Sorry loads of typos - typing and going 49 other things in my small nap window!