Catnappers and 'bad sleepers' support thread

[AwesomeSuperTasty]

This is inspired by this napping thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/2123505-Any-advice-for-daytime-naps A user commented that they wanted to start a catnapping thread, but seeing as no one did, I thought I might start a 'support group' for all parents of catnapping babies and generally poor sleepers. (I hope the user who prompted this thought will come forward to claim the credit!)

Anyway, it's really just a place to vent and maybe share experiences.

So, I will start. My 7 month old son still catnaps 30 mins at a time, something he allegedly should have grown out of. He also wakes every 90 minutes at night, and wakes up at 5.30 in the mornings. He self settles to sleep and has an early bed time but can't resettle at night. Basically, since he was born, I've not slept longer than 2 hours at a stretch. I'm sure I'm pretty exhausted but stopped registering it.

I do have some questions for anyone who'd like to share.

• If you have an older catnapping baby, how long does she/he go between naps?

-Has anyone managed to sucessfully implement some kind of a napping schedule, for babies who sleep only 30 mins?

And please don't tell me to get a sling...or co-sleep

Mrsmugoo, I could have written your poet about Mil.

awesome - oh the horror! It's soooo hard. I hope you are going somewhere nice.

Awful night of baby running a fever after jabs. Cried at 5 am myself. Toddler woke again too. Got. To shut his door now I think.

We. Will get through this.....

I forgot to post yesterday as we had some visitors but for his lunch time nap DS woke up after 20 minutes so I went in and resettled him and he went back off to sleep for another 40. When he woke up he still seemed sleepy and a bit grizzly so I fed him and let him stay on the boob for a bit of a nuzzle and he fell fast asleep on me for another HOUR!

It was actually really lovely holding his little sleeping body, smelling his hair and skin and reminded me of the first 3 months of his life where all his sleeps we're like this and it made me appreciate all the cuddle time we had.

Today I'm going to try really hard to keep him asleep for longer at lunch time as if he can do a longer lunch time nap as it really made the difference to our afternoon, he was so perky.

Hope the flight goes well, Awesome.

Coming off the back of a bad few nights here. Was lovely to get a break while DS was at my mum's (settled no prob, took his dream feed and a yogurt no prob, 2 dummy wake ups between 1030-5, 20m play at 5am then up for the day at 745-wee monkey) but I found myself waking every few hours to coincide with DS's schedule.

However, he was really out of sorts on Sunday and was running a really high temperature (nudging 39.5 degrees) and gnawing at his hands. Figured it was teething and dosed him with Calpol. He was up every hour or so but was boiling hot.

Last night wasn't great either. Up at 245-330 (although I no longer stay in the room), 445-5 (when he positively inhaled a bottle) and up for the day at 8. He's only managing roughly 1h-115 of awake time before wanting to go to bed (he's there now) so he's clearly not getting quality sleep as es uncomfy. Poor soul. On the upside, he's now going for naps without so much as a whimper of complaint; he's still waking up every 45m but it's quite nice that the battle has stopped.

DS has also just discovered the joy of blowing raspberries. Problem is he's worked out that its a cunning way to avoid eating anything he deems unsuitable. I am covered in discarded porridge and reflux medicine.

Hope everyone had a good night. I'm starting to seriously consider tough love with his dummy. Need sleep.

Mrs-I know war you mean about the cuddles. DS is not a cuddly baby at all but he's just started to snuggle in when we watch peppa pig and it is LOVELY!

Yeah I find it so irritating how she still wants to hold him over her shoulder clutched in like a newborn.

He just has this look of "hey, where's my toys and why is a shoulder the only thing I can see?"

So he grizzles and then she jigs him up and down and pats his bottom which really sets him off - then she thinks there's something "wrong" with him.

He wants to play with toys and play peekaboo now not be manhandled!

He's not 3 weeks old anymore!!

Baby went down with dummy as I had the most shocking bedtime ever with a very overtired toddler. She goes down like a dream with it but don't really want to encourage it for reasons Inapickle mentions. But then if it's not a dummy, what? Rocking, walking etc? Still all sleep props. What is worse!?

Hi all. (Apologies in advance for essay.)

My daughter is 20wks and a champion of the 45min daytime nap! She sleeps well at night for the most part, except when she randomly decides to stay awake for two hours for no particular reason that I can see.

She used to be a brilliant daytime sleeper. When she first started doing the 45min thing she was so unbelievably miserable all the time, then I think her little body got used to it, and she seemed to be a lot happier (coinciding with being put on Aptimal Pepti for lactose intolerance, coupled with the existing ranitidine for reflux). She generally goes for 1.5-2hrs between naps, and this works most of the time, but out of nowhere she'll have a day/couple of days/week where she just can't stand to be awake OR be put to sleep. She has no reliable sleepy signals because she yawns, rubs her eyes, plays with her hair/ears all day long because she's chronically overtired.

I always try to take her out in the buggy for her last nap of the day (hopefully between 4:30 and 5:15, depending on her previous sleep), but most days it takes forever to get her to go. If I dare take her out before the 2hr mark has passed, she won't even attempt to shut her eyes until then, and even THEN she won't go.

And one more thing (possibly the worst thing): NOBODY ELSE CAN SETTLE HER. She will NOT go to sleep for anybody else. My husband has tried and tried but she just screams the place down and is then awake for even longer. We need to work on this as she's heavy and I'm weak :( Right now she doesn't seem that keen on me during the day, probably because she's bored of me and the house. Husband takes the car to work, and we live in the middle of poxy nowhere with nothing to do around us. It's crap but there's not much I can do about that! So I'm stuck inside most of the time with a whingy baby who only wants me for rocking/shhing... Sigh.

All suggestions so far have been wonder weeks (she's technically out of leap 4), sleep regression and a growth spurt. Well, she's been doing this for well over 8wks, so this is an awfully long leap/regression/spurt! She was also doing it when we had cool weather before this heatwave started, but the heat can't be helping at the moment.

Anyway, I'm just glad I found this thread! Reading it made her seem like Rumpelstiltskin - I really feel for those of you who have it a lot worse than me, you have my complete and total respect!

Hi coodlemoodle!

Sorry to hear you're having such a rough time of it. DS is both lactose intolerant and has terrible reflux (on losec as the effectiveness of the ranitidine wore off) so I know exactly how you feel (except that I'm slightly further down the line than you!)

DS was particularly bad nap-wise around the 20 weeks mark. Unfortunately, it hasn't got too much better (still the 45m wonder) but getting him to go to sleep without a full scale meltdown has gotten markedly easier. Saying that, he's had a grand total of 10m nap since 12 today.

Through trial and error we've discovered a routine that sort of works for us and the ball of energy that is DS. Lazy mornings (catching up on sleep he refused to take overnight) followed by a super active afternoon. Can you take your DD swimming? Or to a park for a roll around? Soft play? Anything that involves not being in the house/in the buggy-even going out for a coffee and letting him look around and chat to other people-seems to encourage late afternoon naps and going to sleep at a reasonable hour AND accepting when It is DH's turn to put him to bed (so tired he c
Doesn't have the energy to complain!)

Hi all, just catching up! Hope everyone is getting some rest. We had an adventure of an 8 hour flight which I do not recommend :) everyone says that babies sleep well on planes. Hahaha. Well, DS slept through me taking him out of the cot and into the car seat at 4am, then woke up when we still had almost two hours in the car (that was not the plan). He managed a 15mib pram nap at the airport. Then, on the plane I fed him to sleep twice! Woo hoo!! The poor guy was so tired when we got to our place that he had a meltdown and woke up every 40 mins throughout the night. Until I gave up trying to settle him in the travel cot and cuddled him to sleep for about two hours.

The poor guy is still on uk time so he got up (for the day) at 2am... And bedtime is at 4pm! He's also not self settling as easily. Plus I cannot find a mattress to fit our travel cot as American sizes are all different, obviously, so now DS has to sleep on the travel cot maters which isn't nice.

Anyway, I do not recommend long haul travel with a catnapper, and needless to say we didn't do it for fun (it's a work trip).

How is everyone else doing?

Hi Pickle!

I was sorry to read about your troubles as well, it's just so hard, isn't it? I'm jealous of all those parents with happy, sleepy babies! (Which mine CAN be. Sometimes. Occasionally. Rarely. Never :()

Getting out and about is sometimes better for her but we're a bit stranded right now, and like I say my husband has the car all day, and we live in a 'one bus a day' sort of place. Nothing nearby at all, really. I really need my car back but we're too poor to afford another one at the moment!

I say sometimes because yesterday we went out for the day with my Mum (who would come every day if she could) and she was quite happy in the center of town, looking at all of the people, etc... then she was a nightmare for the rest of the day, up for 2hrs in the night, etc.

A bad day seems to lead to a bad night, which then leads to a good day, then a good night, then back to the bad day and the whole thing starts again. I just can't win and she's been like this since about 12wks!

Just catching up-coming off the back of two horrific nights (refusal to eat dinner or take milk made for wake-ups-every-45min-hell-a-thon) and a strange one last night where DS was tossing and turning all night BUT didn't bother crying out. He went from 11-615 and then back down til 8. What I wouldn't give for some consistency!!

Poor you awesome-sounds rubbish. Before DS was born, DH and I were positive we were going to go away for a weeks holiday abroad thus summer. Funnily enough, I'm still incredibly pale...

Coodlemoodle-I know how tricky it is finding a routine that "suits" as high maintenance babies refuse point blank to follow the ones that are laid out in books. I love routine and have found the "going with the flow" aspect of parenting DS (and his bloody unpredictability) incredibly difficult.

Keeping him entertained-without crossing over into overstimulated-has only just fallen into place over the last 2-3 weeks. He still can't manage past 5pm and regularly melts down as he can't quite stop himself from bouncing/jumping/wriggling long enough to discover whether he is tired or not but it is so much better than it was.

How is the ranitidine working out for you? It was great for DS initially but lost effectiveness around the 14 weeks mark. Unfortunately, we misinterpreted his reflux symptoms as teething, hence he had two full weeks of feeling really terrible whenever we forced him to take a bottle (explains his total aversion to milk, bottles and all liquids now). The first indication that something was wrong was increased daytime irritability and reduced napping. It may be worthwhile keeping an eye on your DD about 30-60m after she feeds to measure whether its just general grumpiness or is reflux related.

Well catnappers - yesterday he pulled a TWO HOUR lunchtime nap out of the bag which only required a bit of a hand on his chest after 35 minutes to transition him.

This morning he did an hour and a quarter with no intervention and he's currently an hour into a sleep with no intervention.

Ground breaking!!

Well done mrsmugoo! Your patience is really paying off. I tried and failed with this sleep transitioning shush patting :(

Pickle, how did you learn when activities were too over stimulating? (Apart from the obvious, loud, flashing, annoying things). I am wondering is DS is OS but I can't seem to keep him at home for quiet time (only pre nap and pre bedtime and playing after getting up). Seems happiest when out and about looking at things, people, cars etc.

We are are now on 3am wake ups :) jet lag means DH and I are also in bed by 7pm so it's not so bad. Right, off to have a glass of wine!

Well done, mrs! That's brilliant progress!!

Awesome-DS is a really vocal baby so his noises can be quite telling. I've found that the higher pitched he gets-and the more grabby-the more over-excited he is.

As you say, it's super easy to tell when the loud/energetic games become too much but you wouldn't think that just having a nosey whilst out in the pram could cause a meltdown but that ends to be our worst culprit (that and coffee shops where EVERYBODY and their aunt comes over for a chat as he starts scanning/making eye contact with people the second we get in the door). As he gradually increases in pitch, I tend to put him in the buggy and -shudder-cover his face with a cloth, while giving him his bears to hold in each hand. He's never been able to sleep without something covering his eyes so this is a makeshift version. He'll fight it. For usually between 20-30m but I figure thats his wind down time.

When we're out and moving and he's clearly had enough but can't stop himself from looking, twisting etc. I drape a light blanket over the top of the buggy so that he can't see anything. I get some really strange looks but I rationalise that even if he doesn't go to sleep , it gives him quiet time to reboot.

Jet lag sounds rough! Hope you get some sleep!!!

Thanks pickle! As it happens I noticed those shrill screams with DS too, so I will keep an eye out to see if it coincides with the times we are out and about.

We are now over our jet lags but DS is now set in some weird schedule where he wakes at 4am on the dot and falls asleep at 4pm. Desparately trying to move bedtime up by a bit every day but no luck.

Hello, sorry I've been MIA, we went on hols for 10 days and sleep has just got worse and worse. My previously good night time sleeper will now only sleep in his cot for progressively shorter spells throughout the night (we get 2 hours, then 1 hour, then 30 mins then 15 mins until I give up and bring him in bed with me where he fidgets/nibbles on boob for the rest of the night).

Daytime naps are as shit as ever. I don't know where it all went wrong and what to do next???!!!!

I'll have a read back through the thread if I ever get 5 minutes rest.

Mrsmugoo I think you are my hero/nap guru!

Sorry to hear others aren't having so much joy. We're not here, either. After randomly starting to pull some proper naps - 90 mins in the buggy at least once a day, one miraculous 1hr45 in cot one lunchtime - things seen to have regressed. Cot naps have slipped from 40 minutes back to our usual 30 on the dot. And same in the buggy. No idea what is different and why the spell is broken but I guess it's my punishment for smugly thinking I might have cracked it. On the plus side I am getting her to nap in the cot at all (and without a battle) so that's progress on a few weeks ago. Still, all very frustrating.

I'm still getting a lot of 30-40 minute sleeps but a few times now after he's woken from a catnap he's been so grumpy after that I've fed him and he's dropped back off to sleep on me for over an hour - he definitely wants to sleep for longer.

This morning he did 40 minutes in the cot from 9:50-10:30 and then another hour on the bed after being fed back to sleep from 10:45-11:45

On the days he's done longer naps we've even managed on 2 naps. I'm hoping he's starting to drop into the 2-3-4 schedule.

Just a quick one as I'm due back at work,

Earth- I found that travelling creates a mini sleep regression, so to speak, but they soon get back on track.

Mrsmugoo, do you find he can make it 3 hours on a catnap as well? I am seeing a 2-3-3-3 pattern at the moment with 3x30 min naps

Hi all

Absolutely exhausted here. DS has discovered the art of rolling over from back to front and has decided that bedtime is the perfect time to work on this life-changing skill. It's quite ingenious; he's shuffling over so he can reach the cot bars and using them as leverage to pull himself over.

Problem is he can't get himself back so the controlled crying is out the window. He screams his head off because he's properly frightened at being face down. I lost count of the number of times I had to roll him over between 4-5.10 then 620-710.

Naps were atrocious. Nothing until almost 1pm ( he was up at 8!), then a 15m and. 90m (with 3x roll backs) all day.

Just had to go in to roll him back over and am off to bed so I can get a few hours sleep before the nightmare begins again. I go back to work in less than 2 weeks-how the hell am I going to manage on no sleep when I'm a zombie now?

Arghhhhh! 2 steps forward, 20 back. I wish there was an emoticon for traumatised...

Pickle, that sounds familiar! Had a similar cot bar issue. Does your DS mind sleeping on his side?

Just started back at work (sleepless, exhausted). It's tough. I keep thinking - maybe I should take a nap in the office? It's my only chance of uninterrupted sleep! Also, I need to invest in a better under eye concealer.

We are in a crazy schedule where DS is waking up at 4am so he's exhausted by 4-5pm which is now his new bedtime. Am actually considering keeping this - at least the jet lag on our return to the UK will be minimal!

Awesome, nope if he catnaps he has to sleep 3 times to make it through to bed time in one piece!

The day we had two naps was a) we woke up super late for the dat at 8:45am b) he did an hour and a quarter first nap c) he did just over 2 hours second and final nap

the combination of longer sleep and then being able to go longer awake because he was more rested was the key.

Who knows is we are moving towards this or if it was just a (lovely) blip.

ds is still a dedicated catnapper. We've not had more than one sleep cycle in a nap for literally months now.
However we are getting somewhere with the self-settling for naps. I tried laying with him on the bed and we had 30 mins of screaming before he gave in. Then I experimented sitting out of sight and he went off MUCH quicker. He's just gone down for 2nd nap and asleep within minutes. He just did abit of singing before he went off which was very cute.
This time a week ago i'd still be there rocking him in the bouncer whilst he protested.
He also did a 10 stretch without waking last night
Now if only he'd have decent length naps! But hey I guess you can't have it all!

Hi everyone, haven't had a chance to catch up with posts but hope all is okay with you & your catnappers!

Mine has a new game, and it only happens at night, either before bed or at 3am. I rock her to sleep, and she goes off quite nicely. Then I put her down AND SHE WAKES UP. She ONLY does this at 7:30pm(ish) or in the middle of the night, never for her crappy naps! Then she's awake for another half an hour or so. It drives me up the wall! I have to go to bed at 9:30pm or I'll be too tired to function the next day (with other 'hey mum let's stay up for two hours at 3am!!!' game), so this means I get a whole 90mins to eat, wash up, sterilise bottles and 'relax' before bed. I know I've only lost half an hour, but every second of those 30mins is precious, as I'm sure you all appreciate... Thankfully my husband makes the dinner nowadays but he takes so long with the washing up it's quicker for me to do it myself (I've seen him spend five minutes on two plates before now, and don't get me started on cutlery).

She also won't drink for me. Daddy? Yes. Nanny? Yes. Mummy? Haha! Half the bottle and then no more. This means her total food consumption in a day is so low that she's starving in the night, waking up more. At the weekend she sleeps well because Daddy does most of the feeds! Uggghhhhhh...

At least she's a bit happier in the day at the moment. That's a blessing!

DS had first days at nursery this week. Toddled off with a complete stranger without as my gas a backwards glance. Ate chicken casserole -with lumps-for them. Still didn't sleep or take a bottle but its so frustrating knowing he's playing me. Evil genius baby.

He only did 2 x 20m naps all day yesterday. He was ready to drop come 7pm and slept til 11 (woke up on his tummy and freaked out) then back down until 6. This is the second time this week he has done a long stretch. Am not as glib to think this could be a significant change; his bottom teeth have started popping through the gum (found out the hard way when DS used my finger as a teether) so I fully anticipate us reverting back to multiple wake ups.

Hope all is well!!