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Original poster

Catnappers and 'bad sleepers' support thread

525 replies

AwesomeSuperTasty · 06/07/2014 18:05

This is inspired by this napping thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/2123505-Any-advice-for-daytime-naps A user commented that they wanted to start a catnapping thread, but seeing as no one did, I thought I might start a 'support group' for all parents of catnapping babies and generally poor sleepers. (I hope the user who prompted this thought will come forward to claim the credit!)

Anyway, it's really just a place to vent and maybe share experiences.

So, I will start. My 7 month old son still catnaps 30 mins at a time, something he allegedly should have grown out of. He also wakes every 90 minutes at night, and wakes up at 5.30 in the mornings. He self settles to sleep and has an early bed time but can't resettle at night. Basically, since he was born, I've not slept longer than 2 hours at a stretch. I'm sure I'm pretty exhausted but stopped registering it.

I do have some questions for anyone who'd like to share.

  • If you have an older catnapping baby, how long does she/he go between naps?
-Has anyone managed to sucessfully implement some kind of a napping schedule, for babies who sleep only 30 mins?

And please don't tell me to get a sling...or co-sleep Wink

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Original poster
AwesomeSuperTasty · 07/07/2014 17:28

Definitelysometime - yes, we had a screamer too! It's exactly as you describe. There was a period at around 3/4 months old when every single wake up was basically just screaming. The only thing I can say is that it went away on its own, and now instead of screaming its just regular crying.

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Original poster
AwesomeSuperTasty · 07/07/2014 17:31

We only manage 2x30 naps today. Walked forever this afternoon but there was not a whisper of a nap, so came home for early bedtime. DS is already snoozing away but I am not looking forward to the frequent wakings this will now bring...

Minipie- I tried the pram thing too and it worked a couple of times and then nothing.

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Original poster
AwesomeSuperTasty · 07/07/2014 17:33

We only manage 2x30 naps today. Walked forever this afternoon but there was not a whisper of a nap, so came home for early bedtime. DS is already snoozing away but I am not looking forward to the frequent wakings this will now bring...

Minipie- I tried the pram thing too and it worked a couple of times and then nothing.

Also, I am interested in the under tired theory - how did you figure out that you were putting dd down too early for the second nap ?

I think under tired may be the cause of DS's short morning na

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Original poster
AwesomeSuperTasty · 07/07/2014 17:34

Oops.

Short morning nap. But he is clearly tired after two hours awake and falls asleep without any fuss. Not sure if I should experiment with a longer wake time...

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mrsmugoo · 07/07/2014 17:58

He refused a 4th nap despite laying in bed sucking his fingers til his eyes drooped. I thought I had it but suddenly he pinged them open and no amount of settling/guiding fingers back in or re-feeding would get him anywhere near asleep.

So he's now been awake since 3 and is grizzly and horrid!

Original poster
AwesomeSuperTasty · 07/07/2014 18:02

Mrsmugoo, can you do an early bed time?

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smokeandfluff · 07/07/2014 18:13

Best of luck mrs! Mini-when did your dd start napping for 2 hours without the rocking?

mrsmugoo · 07/07/2014 18:13

He'll just wake up earlier and then tomorrow will be all out of whack.

Trying every distraction technique I can think of to 7pm bath time!

highlove · 07/07/2014 19:26

By some miracle we managed four naps today - 2x30 mins and 2x25. For us that's a good day. All four were in the buggy - I've given up on the crib for now till she can get in the habit of just sleeping regularly. I've just today started using one of those snooze shade things and have to say it's helping, so far - first nap today without it took 50 minutes to go off (yes, 50 sodding minutes for a 30 minute nap, FFS) and then the rest of the day we used it - final she went off withing 10 minutes. That's bloody good for us.

So a question - either buggy or sling will mean crying before she actually goes to sleep. In what way is that different to me letting her cry it out? Please tell me it's not the same. (By the way, she didn't cry for 50 minutes earlier - it's just about five minutes before she finally goes off.)

Original poster
AwesomeSuperTasty · 07/07/2014 19:44

Highlove, that's great! The snooze shade is good, isn't it? (Having said that, didn't work for us today :) )

In my understanding, with CIO and CC you leave the baby in the room, so they clearly know that they are alone. Crying in the sling/in your arms, is different because they know they are with you and are supported. That reminds me - there is an article, www.awareparenting.com/cryinginarms.htm about an approach called 'crying in arms', which explains how to support babies who are crying a lot before sleeping. This helped me when my DS was cryiing for 20-40 minutes at a time before bedtime (never figured out why....definitely wasn't overtired back then)

About crying in the pram - also, my understanding is that all babies will fuss and cry to some extent/sometimes before finally falling asleep. In my view, five minutes crying is nothing :) as long as he doesn't look very distressed.

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Original poster
AwesomeSuperTasty · 07/07/2014 19:46

Mrsmugoo, what happens when he has a 4-hour gap between last nap and bedtime, sleeps ok?

I'm also desperate to dispense with the early bedtimes (5.30pm for the last ten days, ffs!) as they result in earlier and earlier wake ups, as you say. But all the recent naps have ended at 1pm or 2pm at the latest! Not sure what to do tbh.

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Inapickle123 · 07/07/2014 20:02

Miserably Marking my place!

DS is 5.5 months and fights sleep like no child I have ever encountered. I don't even have the option of feeding to sleep (believe me, I'd do it in a heartbeat ) as he's also a bottle refuser.

He's never napped for more than 45m at a go-and this is usually after a full scale, hour long meltdown. He can go about 1h30 before he needs to nap (super active-spends his life bouncing/trying to walk) but I'm lucky to get 2 naps (ha!) a day out of him.

Nights are horrific. He's so bloody crabby from refusing sleep during the day that he collapses at 7pm (after meltdown/scream-a-thon bottle refusal) and wakes up 1030/2/4-6(arghhh) and up for the day at 645. The two hour stretch is the absolute worst as he's waking be use he's hungry but won't bloody eat.

We're starting CC next week to try and encourage him to self settle without a dummy (as we can be up 3-5 times a night on top of the wake ups to replace it).

I just need to sleep.

mrsmugoo · 07/07/2014 20:03

To be fair that is what happens most days. It doesn't affect his sleep compared to when he does have a late nap, I just have to contend with a grizzly little monster from about 5:45 til bath time at 7 which chills him out for feeding and bed.

Popalina · 07/07/2014 20:08

Mrs mugoo, she stuffs her whole fist in her mouth but it just doesn't seem to do it for her. She gets frustrated and red in the face. I am sure my son had found his thumb by 3 months. Not sure what to do other than give in and give her the dummy. Currently upstairs settling her to bed for the third time....the usual evening fanfare then.

Awesome - I hope the walk got baby Awesome off to sleep for more than half an hour!

Mini pie, sounds like your diligence paid off. I certainly would spend ages getting my son back to sleep if he did a short nap which wasn't too often but can't sit in a quiet house with a toddler now!

I know if I give DD the dummy she will suddenly be a very easy baby but I am not sure if it will help to lengthen the naps as she will wake up looking for the dummy again and then I can't face being up every half an hour through the night to replace it. I have no dummy experience, it's just what I have heard from friends whose kids were reliant on it for sleeping.

Popalina · 07/07/2014 20:17

Damn sorry, I missed a page of the thread. Ignore my comments peeps! Sorry to hear some have had challenging days. Welcome Inapickle. Sounds like a really tough nut you've got to crack! Wish I knew the solution. I would make millions!

Oh and early bedtimes resulting in early wake ups are a problem consequence of crappy nappers. We have the same issue although she bloomin takes several attempts to go down most days so I suppose it ends up being late. My toddler is up at six and I have an animal to tend to at that time anyway so I don't mind a six am waking but four am is taking the pee!

minipie · 07/07/2014 20:50

I'm trying to remember.... dd is now 20 months so this is a while back.

ok, so it was really gradual that the post lunch nap transitioned from "always wakes after 30 minutes and needs rocking back to sleep" to "pretty much always sleeps for 1.5hrs+ without waking". At 6 months she was probably waking after 30 mins and needing rocking about 90% of the time (but as I say, once rocked, she'd sleep for another 1-2 hrs). at 8 months she probably only woke and needed rocking 30% of the time. by 9/10 months no rocking required.

how did I realise she was under tired. Well getting her to nap had become a real fight (I would have to Velcro the Snoozeshade on the buggy and rock vigorously back and forth as she protested...). She has history of getting overtired so I always assumed it was that and she was sleep fighting. Then one day I decided I couldn't be bothered to fight - tried leaving her awake longer till she was clearly shattered - LO and behold, she went to sleep in seconds and slept much longer.

I think 5/6 months is a real turning point - before that, pushing sleep later/reducing naps will just lead to overtiredness, but after that, it can mean they sleep better.

minipie · 07/07/2014 20:51

Of course it might have all sorted itself naturally without me doing anything!

Original poster
AwesomeSuperTasty · 07/07/2014 20:56

Hmmm, Mrsmugoo, food for thought. Never occurred to me that a late nap may have been the cause of more night wakings (DS has been a serial waker since forever). Now, today he went to sleep at 17.30 as his last nap ended at 1pm. However....he had a bit of a whimper a couple of times so far, but no more of a 'waking'/crying thing he used to do every 2 hours when he did have afternoon naps.

Ok, will report back....

Welcome, inapickle! Let us know how CC goes.

Popalina, I gave ds the dummy for pram naps when he was 3/4 months and it helped settle him but not lengthen the naps. At 5 months he started spitting it out. It was definitely worth a go as an interim measure.

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highlove · 07/07/2014 21:19

Thanks awesome - that's reassuring. Hope you're in for a quiet evening...

smokeandfluff · 07/07/2014 21:42

Thanks mini! Am hoping ds' s midday nap improves, and it sets him up for a happy afternoon! He won't sleep well in the buggy anymore as he prefers to sleep on his front, and I don't want to put him unstrapped into the buggy. Think I'm the same in being over cautious as regards tiredness-ds would have a complete meltdown if he got too tired a few months ago and it would take him Ages to fall asleep. Seems to tolerate long wake times better now.

ROARmeow · 08/07/2014 07:22

great idea for a thread.

Please no one blame yourself for having a bad sleeper, it's their personality, nothing you've caused.

My DC1 was great sleeper, but DC2 not...

DC2 will turn 2 years old next month and still wakes up to 3 times a night, sometimes for approximately an hour.

DC2 gave up her daytime nap totally at 15 months. in a way it's easier as I'm not fighting her trying to trick her to go the eff to sleep when she didn't really want to.

never intended to co-sleep but have been doing that pretty much since the start as otherwise I'd never have energy to look after my DC1 (4 year old) nor DC2.

it is a bit soul crushing at times.

Original poster
AwesomeSuperTasty · 08/07/2014 07:59

Welcome Roar!

Yes, I agree no one should blame themselves, especially since you can see from this thread and others that people really do their best with routines and what not.

Yikes, waking up for an hour at night is hard work! Hope you all got some sleep last night.

By the way, roar, when your 15 month old gave up the naps, how did it work out? Was there lots of crying, etc, or was she mostly ok during the day?

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ROARmeow · 08/07/2014 08:17

when she gave up her naps at 15 months she was fine. No difference at all than from how she'd been during days with a nap.

During her napping months her bedtime was around 7.30pm. since she dropped nap she goes to bed easily at 6.30pm. sleeps like a log until midnight and then fucks about till morning wake up at 6.30am. She comes into our bed and either me or DH goes to spare room.

CC wasn't our style but we tried it at about 12 months. just resulted in her crying and vomiting and also waking her brother up. For us, co-sleeping is the lesser of 2 evils as it's fairer on our DC1

Definitelysometime · 08/07/2014 09:13

Oh awesome, I'm so so glad to hear that the screaming stopped eventually for you. I have to believe there's an end in sight. It's so bad I struggle to go to things in fear of all-out scream a thon.

mrsmugoo · 08/07/2014 10:32

Didn't have the best night.

Down at 7:30 up for a feed at 11:30
Down at 12 up again at 2. Attempted to settle without boob. Nope. Fed again
Down at 3 up again (!) at 5.

I had not got back to sleep since I put him down at 3 (so awake since 2) and so when he was still not asleep by 6 I retreated to the spare room to try to get some more kip.

I peeked in at 8:30 and he was spreadeagled on the bed with DH

He's now down for his first nap. It took a while for his fingers to go in but he got there in the end.

Groundhog Day.