Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

You travellers are INSANE. Fucking INSANE.

I hear you on naps, Peregrin. You get to mid- morning afternoon and all you want to do is park your exhausted arse on the sofa in front of crap TV and if that means baby sleeping on you, then so be it. I'm fooling myself into thinking I'm 'working on' not feeding to sleep at night time, but naps are just a whole different realm of impossible. I'm also trying to spend time with DS2 in his room from the get go, with the occasional nap in his cot (the longest of which has lasted 17 minutes because it wasn't on me ), but a sofa in front of Netflix is just so much easier when you've had the bulk of your brain cells flattened by broken sleep.

Another reminder as to why you don't want a fourth Dreaming - newborns grow horns and pointy tails from 5pm onwards. Jaysus, the screaming. Ann sent me a 'Happiest Baby on the Block' DVD, the techniques in which do cut the screaming short somewhat, but they're not really compatible with synchronised dinner preparation and toddler-wrangling.

Laters.

Oh, and please don't scare me with exclusion diets Dreaming. DS2 spends large chunks of the day puking and screaming, so I'm already wondering if he has the 'flux. I really should do the right thing and ditch my re-found bliss of morning coffee to see if the caffeine might be affecting it but I'm just weak...so weak...and the mere thought of going onto almond milk makes me well up.

Oh, and please don't scare me with exclusion diets Dreaming. DS2 spends large chunks of the day puking and screaming, so I'm already wondering if he has the 'flux. I really should do the right thing and ditch my re-found bliss of morning coffee to see if the caffeine might be affecting it but I'm just weak...so weak...and the mere thought of going onto almond milk makes me well up.

Still on 3 bloody wake ups. We go to a holiday cottage for a week tomorrow. Oh, deep joy.

I have a cold verging on man flu which is really making me feel rough. Thanks for the reminder elph. I thought it was 4pm onwards though... The dts used to cry, for 6-7 hours a day EACH , mostly 4 PM on but any time they were awake really, vomit, poo, never settle and I was talked into believing it to be mere colic. The benefit of hindsight is wonderful mind.

Fighting escalating here.... beat be off

Dreaming it sounds like you need your DH to take the kids to the cottage and lie in bed all weekend at home (I know.)

The good news here is that I got asked if I would mind giving up my seat at a meeting next week to another colleague. The meeting is taking place in Italy so I grudgingly acquiesced :D I was really not looking forward to leaving DS for over 24 hours and DH was drenched in cold sweat at the thought of having to deal

Also DS has been only waking three times the last few nights! Whoopee! I might actually get a chance to shake this infection.

I wish peregrin I tried to take dd shopping the other day as she's had a growth spurt and outgrown all her trousers and was rung by dh not coping with a hysterical DT the Terrible. He really can be such a toad a lot of the time I doubt they'd even last the journey!

I also know that this is a bad place to complain of 'only' 3 wakeups- why am I so tired?! apart from the man flu of course. Hopefully it's just that.

Packing. We really are going away for a week. DD and dt2 will be sharing a room. No one is going to get any sleep are they?!

elph if you did try any form of torture restricted diet it's only a month 4 measly weeks. If there's no improvement you can add it in again. He could well just be being a baby. They do all seem affected by the witching hour. Newborns are hard. They always sleep blissfully while out in public, when there's help etc etc etc and then when it's a really bad time- bam! How long til the end of the fourth trimester? ! in hours?!

OK...OK...I have just planned week one of a dairy-free, egg-free, soy-free menu in the hopes of combatting the river of shit and screaming. I've been skin-to-skin with white noise blasting in DS2's ear all day just to keep him calm. I tried putting him in the pram for a walk just to break the monotony of being on the sofa all day but it made him worse. I will also jettison my lovely morning coffee. There is not an emoticon to convey my breadth of negative feelings at becoming a soy-free vegan to see if this helps matters. Fortunately, I have some banging vegan cook books, but all I can think of is that freezer full of ante-natally prepared meals, virtually all of them containing dairy, and now I'm going to have to cook from scratch with a wailing baby in a sling Every. Bloody. Night. Roo if you're still lurking - did you say you're a vegan? Help me out here with easy vegan, tofu-free meals that a vegetable-phobic, cheese-loving toddler will eat!

elph very much not a vegan but my latest dairy free discovery is anchovy-zucchini pasta that even DH will eat, despite his loathing of zucchini. Sautée some garlic (plus chilli, optional) in olive oil, add a tin of anchovies, grate in a zucchini or two, cook a bit, done. Serve with pasta. DS1 could have some pesto stirred in for extra yumminess.

Thanks Peregrin but unless anchovies have been recategorised from fish to vegetable, I'll give it a miss

Going to try a cheese-free pesto at some point. DS1 LOVES pesto (which I find bizarre, given his usually unadventurous palate) but there is no such thing as a veggie-friendly lactose-free Parmesan.

I really think I'm starting to out-hippie Hear again now...

So I thought decaf coffee and hazelnut milk would be a nice combination...I thought it would be...

Its worth a try though elph. I know the general rule is a few weeks but I noticed a huge difference in dd in under a week. I seem to remember day 4 being the magic one that spurred me on to continue. It then took another couple of weeks to really clear her out, but once I'd seen the improvement, and got more then 30 mins of sleep in one go, it didn't seem so bad.

We are doing a month of veggie at the moment (just for fun, sorry, I know that's weird), which really means vegan as dh doesn't like dairy. However, dd will eat a lot of veggies so it's not to much of a bother for us. Happy to share meal plans, well what I have of one at least.

We had dhal with random veg and coconut cream last night. Lunch today was chickpeas with onions, cabbage and green beans in a tomato sauce/stew/soup (depending on your definition of soup). Crisp breads and hummus on the side.

I haven't decided on tonight, might just be nut cutlets with stuff. I think I might do a lentil and nut roast tomorrow. Slow cooker bean chili will be on the menu at least a couple of times during the week I imagine.

Ummmm... That's all my planning so far. Like the pesto idea! Might do some with roast veg.

How about cous cous? That's pretty good with some dried fruit and sneaky veg in.

Just popped in to say that Colief worked wonders on my baby when he screamed all day. Worth a go maybe?

I gave up everything because the GP suggested it, and it made no difference, in the end it was due to a tongue and lip tie.

I was going to suggest spag bol made with quorn, but I have a feeling that it may have egg in it.

I made a big pot of veggie soup, with butternut, sweet potato, swede, carrots, a couple of spuds, and blended it. Did us 3 meals and saved thinking about dinner on those days.

Cottage pie made with lentils instead of mince?
Lentil and veggie-sausage stew? (in slow-cooker)
Ratatouille with rice or pasta?
Proper Moroccan style couscous (like a big veg and chickpea stew, served next to the cous-cous itself)

If you don't know how to use the hazel milk up, I think it makes really nice porridge, so does almond milk. I still buy it for that because I actually prefer it to normal milk. (yes I'm weird.)

And I really missed chocolate.
So I used almond milk and Green and Blacks cocoa powder to make a mega chocolately rice pudding...yum! Same principle also worked well to make chocolate tapioca pudding.

Sadly, yes. Quorn has egg.

I did try Infacol with DS1's screaming but it did nothing so I never bothered trying Colief.

TBH, it's the continuous pooing, rather than the screaming, that's making me smell a rat about CMPI. Eight poos a day (at least) is ridonkulous. The night time vomiting has alleviated somewhat by putting books under the head of his cot which also makes me wonder about mild reflux, as does the fact that he much prefers being upright in the sling to being flat in the pram. My lovely BfN support worker has referred me to their lactation consultant for a reflux assessment, and she can prescribe as well which is handy. I'll discuss CMPI with her as well to see if it's worth continuing this exclusion diet hell. Posterior tongue tie was snipped on Tuesday, only change being a worsening in his latch, especially at night - 15 attempts or more (no exaggeration) needed to get him to stay on, which combined with 6-8 feeds a night plus repeated nappy changes is a frickin bear to say the least.

Recipe ideas are good, thanks I'll keep those in mind for next week.

Ah, but infacol did nothing for us either. Colief is the enzyme that breaks down lactose, so it can help their digestion a bit. Infacol is... something else. I've no idea what!!

Is it worth checking for a lip tie? This continued to cause us grief long after the tongue tie was snipped. Until we had it sorted privately at 3 months.
The lactation consultant should be able to help with latch issues. But in the meantime you could try googling "suck training" - if he needs to relearn a good latch it might help. If you can't find anything on google I have a document I could let you have.

Elph sounds bloody tough, think I've managed to block out a lot of the hellish newborn weeks already. Am a mistress of denial...

8+ poos a day was completely normal for DD1 and she didn't have any intolerance issues. I wondered about DD2 having silent reflux or some intolerance because she was so much more unsettled and hated being on her back. My BF counsellor told me to look for frothy or greenish poos which she didn't have. Looking back now, I think she just had colicky type digestive issues and was uncomfortable most of the time - hence refusing to sleep until 2am and then only sleeping on my chest.

She is a different baby now, happy and giggly most of the time and sleeps in her cot the majority of the time still doesn't sleep through the night of bloody course

We had two nights last week where DD2 slept 5 hours straight from 12 to 5 am. Sadly DD1 woke up screaming three times each night it's a fucking conspiracy I tell you. Since then DD2 been back to several wake ups.

Can't really help much with vegan menus I'm afraid! Committed carnivores here and DD1 is a dairy-holic... Quesadillas with beans and hidden veg and dairy free cheese (what is that stuff made from?!)?

Quirky cooking is a great foodie blog for all sorts of exclusions though if that helps any.

Good luck for the week away Dreaming!

ellie Thanks for suggesting suck training - I found a good page, thanks. No lip tie, so that's not an issue.

Chocolate I'm not dead set convinced it's intolerance or reflux related - I'm mainly hoping it's not because this elimination diet crap is depressing. But DS1 was the same way (a mega-pooer, although I can't remember when he stopped pooing at night) and had lactose intolerance confirmed when he was 18 months or so. I've often wondered if he therefore had an early mild CMPI which lead to his horrible sleep. This is mainly a tortuous exercise in nipping anything in the bud!

elph my boys both did 8 ish poos a day each as new babies. DT2 is cmpi but he is constipated with it- the constipation was from a bit older though. So different from my DD. she, from the age of 5 or 6 weeks til weaning, pooed every 10 days. I only changed 3 pooey nappies a month but my goodness, no nappy is a match for a 10 day poonami! Now, today in fact DT1 did 5 poos. DT2 did 1. Both refuse to contemplate potty training... As DD uses the toilet and I only have to wipe her she can do as many as she likes! she's more frequent these days though obviously

I'm never going away again. Tag team children. I'd had just over 2 hours sleep by 5am. Not really DD fault, she was upset as she fell out of bed. Still a loud wake up though. And we had a 3rd bed guard with us for dh odd packing reasons and as they were high singles I had suggested she have it on but she said no need. She is after all 4 in 2 more sleeps. Yet at 4 am there was the "thump" . sigh. Never going away again

elph do you remember how unsure I was about the dts though in the early days? DT the T at least? I remember asking you lot about back arching and you telling me it was normal. Which I agree it is but once his reflux was properly heavily, not crap GP low doses medicated it was so obvious as the wishy washy (I thought) back arching, poor sleep, vomiting, bouts of diarrhoea but not with a really set and definite pattern etc etc all disappeared or reduced drastically. I'll sit on the fence with it

And though I can't competent newborn sleep, it's official. Going away has cocked it all up. DT the Terrible has officially given up sleeping again.

*compete with

*compete with