Tell me I'm doing the right thing. DH not speaking to me.

[SourSweets]

I'm sleep training our 7 month old. I was always against the idea until recently. He eats plenty during the day, he doesn't need feeding.

This is the fifth night. It's gone like this:

First night: awful.
Second night: better
Third night: good
Fourth night: perfect
Fifth night: awful (so far)

DH says he doesn't understand why I don't just pick him up. We have discussed this before starting and he was totally supportive but now we're in it he's finding it hard. So am I. It is hard, I get it. But after an hour of crying the baby has finally gone to sleep, I've asked if DH is ok. He says yes. I say I know it's hard, but I'm not having a one or two or three year old who won't sleep in his cot because he's been taught he doesn't have to. He says fine. I ask if he's in a mood, he says no. He clearly is.

It IS the right thing to do, isn't it? DH says I might aswell leave the room and abandon him if I'm not going to pick him up. I'm still comforting him though, I hand hold, re-dummy, tuck in and stroke. I just don't talk, feed or cuddle.

Has anyone done the same? I'd love to hear tales of success please. Reassure me that I'm not an evil bitch. At this stage we all need a decent night's sleep, the baby included. I'm doing no-one any favours by letting it continue. (Hear the desperation as I try to convince myself?)

Thank you, as always.

I really agree, if you get to the second week and he's crying for long stretches every night, then it's time to re-strategise. Tell your DH that I also felt sick and awful but my DH insisted as nothing else had worked and we were knackered and it really turned parenthood around for us when she started sleeping well around 8 mos. the critics can't live your life for you. The key for me was dd was so much happier when she didn't wake in the night, the next day her behaviour was much better too for not being tired. Still true for her at 3.5, bad night means bad behaviour in the day for us.

I sleep trained my DC in the way you are doing (even younger) and neither needed feeding in the night by seven months. Never co- slept either. Encouraged reliance on teddies and blankets for comfort.
If DH is so against your methods let him do it his own way and you stay tucked up in bed every night.

Kalidasa, that looks like a lot of problems when you lost them like that!

We've sorted b. he only wakes twice in the night now. On night 2 and 3 he woke twice, we dummies him and he went straight back to sleep. On night 4 he woke once and didn't even need the dummy. On nights 1 and 5 he woke twice crying and took a long time to be settled.

DH can settle him if he's in a good mood, but if he's overtired or worked up or ill then he only wants me. I'm fine with that actually.

The dummy thing is a definite problem. Feeding at night I think we have under control as like I say, he doesn't actually feed anyway, just suckles for a bit. Settling in the cot is our main problem. That's why I'm reluctant to take him out of the cot because he'll never learn to settle that way. When he eventually falls to sleep it's with me stroking his forehead, dummy in mouth, firmly tucked in the blanket. I just need to get the length of awake time down.

Sorry for typos. He's napping in my arms now. I usually out him back in the cot to nap to increase the sleep association but I just needed to hold him after last night.

OK, well that does sound like progress really, it's just so hard to focus on the positive after a terrible night! I think you're right to zoom in on the settling-in-the-cot element - we did whatever he needed to start with as long as he stayed in the cot - stroked, dummied, etc. We have also always used "Ewan the Dream Sheep" which is definitely a sleep cue for him. Then once he was settling reasonably well in the cot with intervention, we gradually limited the intervention. Now he goes to sleep reasonably quickly (within half an hour and sometimes a lot faster) with one of us in the room but without any singing/stroking etc, we just sit there in the dark and say "time to go to sleep" over and over! We haven't really gone beyond that point because we both work and actually value a bit of time with him at bedtime, so we don't really mind that we can't just put him to sleep and walk out.

I'm assuming you already have a good bedtime routine etc? That does seem to make a difference even early on. To be honest I think it helps you as much as them as you can tick off the stages to the finish line!

It sounds like you did pretty much exactly what we're doing. I'm also hoping to eventually just sit in the room with him. We do have a bedtime routine, have done since he was about 2 or 3 months old. It works really really well and he goes to sleep with no problems. It's just getting him to stay asleep. Or even if he wakes to go back to sleep quickly.

It's good it hear it is working for you.

Yes the earlier stage was a bit easier for us because actually he had never got used to being lifted up (except for feeds) - we hadn't got into a pattern of him falling asleep in our arms.

I have to say it hasn't completely solved our nightwaking issues though he has improved very slowly since we started in about November. For him it just seems to be a 'weak link' and the first thing to go when there's any other stress. But lots of friends did the same thing and have had very reliably good nights ever since.

I don't think a 7 month old baby is waking on the hour to be fed - a baby that was hungry might wake at 4 having been fed at 11 and then go back to sleep, but this doesn't seem to be what is happening here.

Having read your further posts I think you just need to stick with it.

Also, sometimes when you are trying to teach a child (or an adult) a new behaviour, there can be a last ditch attempt to stick to the old behaviour before they accept the new way of doing things.

(Not in a manipulative way, just an instinctive increase in attempts to keep the old way of doing things before the new habit is formed.)

You do realize though that he doesn't understand that he can't have the same comfort at night as he get's from you during the day.

What you are actually training him to do is realize that he can't have that comfort at night.

I had a terrible time with my first we may have only had one or two wakings a night but she just wouldn't sealt on her own, she'd be awake for hours at a time it is touchier. We did do gradual retreat eventually at 18 months but it never stopped her waking at night. I just wish we had co-slept as that is what we did with DS I think he probably woke up the same but I felt much more rested. Guess what they both finally slept through on there own at 2 1/2 years (a lot younger then some of my friends who didn't co-sleep I may add). I think nothing I did made any differences at all, they needed me at night until that age and still do now if ill or having bad dreams.

Sleep I don't think is anything you can train, you can help improve his sleep so he wake's less but if he still needs you he still needs you and will still wake. It really does seem to be more of a personality thing, you can do lots of things to help but if they still wake they still wake I don't think you can stop it totally unless they are ready.

"What you are actually training him to do is realize that he can't have that comfort at night."

I think that if the comfort he wants is mummy coming to him every hour, and that means mummy can't function during the day (can't safely drive a car, is grumpy and unresponsive, can't hold down the job that clothes and feeds him) he is right.

I agree that individual sleep habits are affected by biology and personality, but, assuming no other health issues, a once an hour waking habit can be changed with gentle sleep training.

OP, take a read of this thread. I posted on it when I was doing Super Nannys controlled crying. A few if us were doing it and compared notes. Good luck.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/1707445-Jo-Frost-Controlled-Timed-Crying-for-9mo-baby

I find to difficult to believe that a young baby under a year in age, has any understanding as to how and why they have attention from their loving parents during the day and at night the same loving parents (for sleep training purposes) choose not to give attention. It must be very confusing for the baby.

Babies don't have any manipulation skills at such a young age, their needs and wants are so entwined.

I had to co sleep with my children, as night time parenting was so easy that way and I wanted my baby to receive the attention he/she needs as and when, not by the clock.

There are so many easier ways to get a child to sleep, that don't require any crying, why take the difficult route. It sounds upsetting all around.

What would happen if you popped baby on the sofa to sleep near you in the evening or in a sling until you go to bed and have them in your bed or a cot in your room. Babies just need to know you are nearby and are looking out for them.

Once they get to 16/18 months they are reaching out in the world and will want to leave your side and won't need the same amount of night time parenting.

I think for a lot of folk they might have tried a lot of other options then resort to controlled crying. For some parents, co sleeping just isn't an option. I did it, and yes it was lovely, but as my dd got bigger and DH got less sleep (a resorted to sofa) we needed it to end before she became too dependant on us. We were lucky that CC worked very quickly for us, and my then 8.5mo has developed into a great sleeper, a great napper and a very happy, contented little girl. There are no signs that she is irrevocably scarred from the 3-4 nights of CC, more so she is a happy girl who sleeps well and has plenty of energy during the day.

Each to their own, and it is an interesting debate and for every piece of well intentioned advice there will always be people who ardently disagree.

OP, do whatever feels right for you!

Sounds like you are doing really well, and really nearly there.

One thing we did was buy a comforter and give it to him every time he slept. He didn't have a dummy so it was something he loved but only ever had at bedtime and nap times. He would stroke it, suck an ear or corner, and that would help him go back to sleep. Also, when we gave it to him, he would know it was time to go to sleep. Even now, he still has his comforter for sleep time, but he tells us he doesn't need him.

One tip though - buy two identical ones! We rotate them every week, so can be washed and also in case of sickness or losing it.

Just something that worked for us, anyway. Good luck for tonight.

It is interesting that I read a lot about co-sleeping and at the other end of the scale CC sleep training. But there is a whole array of other possibilities in between and they are seldom mentioned.

Going with flow and meeting your baby needs is possible without co-sleeping and it is much easier on mother and baby than traditional sleep training.

I am surprised more people don't follow their own instincts, instead of parenting books and gurus, who have no idea what our children need.

Of course if you feel that listening to your child cry during sleep training, is the right for your family, go for it. But to do it because strangers online or in books think that is the right thing to do, sounds crazy to me.

Babies, FFS where have I said I'm only doing it because of books or strangers on the internet? RTFT.

Fairy, thank you. He does have a comforter which helps, I'm hoping that will come in to greater use still when we wean him off the dummy eventually.

Thank you sleepy, glad it worked for you and I'll read your thread when I can.

Signing off for the night now as I don't want to get all worked up.

I think most on here aren't saying it's the absolute right thing to do per se, rather that they did it, and it worked (or not) for them and providing some background as to how they got to that scenario. And I think for many, it is the last resort.

And I guess you could say we're lucky to have lots of resources out there to help us, but there's prob too much and it gets confusing! Hence why folk come on here to canvas opinion.

I mentioned other possibilities, as you didn't seem happy with your current path. But of course you are the parent and know your own child best.

Best of luck with everything, I hope you all get a good night sleep tonight.

Thanks, last night was better. Firstly DH came home, took one look at me and told me to sleep upstairs while he slept downstairs with the baby, so that really helped.

DC woke 5 or 6 times apparently but no crying. He wasn't fed, wasn't picked up and no fuss. But he did need the dummy. So small progress I suppose.

Today I'm going to start weaning him off the dummy during the day time naps, once we can get him off the dummy at night I think it'll be much better.

Thank you again for all support, advice and alternative suggestions.

babies They are getting attention at night. Giving them no attention no matter what is CIO. That's not what OP is doing or what most people do. They're just restricting the amount and type of attention the baby gets.Yes that is confusing for the baby for a while but there are worse things than having a temporarily confused baby. A chronically sleep-deprived one with parents who are losing the plot and having relationship problems because of it (not saying you are OP but most people in this situation do tbh) is a lot worse for them.

The reason people take the 'difficult' route of CCing or gradual retreat or whatever is because the 'easier' methods don't actually work all the time for all babies or families. You know that surely?

DD went to sleep no problem in the evening so popping her on the sofa near me would not have helped in any way. She did not want to sleep in the sling. She was quite happy in her cot, she just woke up all night long. She woke up just as often whether she was in her cot, in our bed or with her cot in our room because her waking had nothing to do with wanting to know we were nearby except insofar as we were her bottle-bringers, dummy-repluggers etc. She wanted her bottle and once she got used to helping herself to water instead she stopped waking us up. Not because she coincidentally developmentally matured and stopped needing the pleasure of our company several times a night.

I know that lots of parenting books say that's what they need but babies don't read the books do they?! She also didn't much enjoy being held or cuddled, gazing into my eyes, facing inwards in the sling, studying my face or lots of other things that the books say they do. She's a totally normal, loving, sometimes cuddly, sociable almost 2 year old now. She's just extremely independent. And not all 2/3/4+ year olds grow out of night waking either as is obvious from these boards. Not even those who've coslept and bf on demand from birth. Because there's a lot more to sleep problems than 'be there for them all night long until they grow out of it'. If only it were that simple.

And babies instincts aren't all they're cracked up to be. When we think we're following our instincts what we're actually usually doing is following a collection of ideas that we've been absorbing from our culture and the people around us since we were born. The very phrase 'night time parenting' was popularised by Sears and carries the associations of his school of parenting advice.

Our instincts aren't accessible to us independently of our language and our reason so appealing to them as though there were some kind of dichotomy between them makes no sense. It's a common false dichotomy in our society because of a dispute between 19th century philosophers, that's all. Appeals to instinct as superior to reason (in the form of expert advice/books) are as unhelpful as appeals to reason as superior to instinct.

The reason I'm saying it here is that our society praises parents (mothers particularly) who follow their instincts. It's applied to mothers particularly is because of the deeply anti-feminist belief that women are closer to their instincts than men and that this is natural and therefore good. Therefore when people claim that they follow their instincts while another mother instead follows expert advice it's a way of claiming superiority as a woman and a mother. It's particularly pernicious because people often find it hard to even articulate why it upsets and offends them because the underlying assumptions run so deep in our culture. But it's a belief system that ultimately damages everyone.

Not much time so quick reply but Sour I think you are doing the right thing. IMO 5-10 wakes a night at 7 months is due to habit and learned sleep associations, not due to hunger or distress. Sleep training will change his learned sleep associations so he can get back to sleep by himself if not actually hungry or in pain.

I have read that there is often a bad night on night 4/5 of sleep training (where they seemm to go backwards), it's like a "last protest" at losing the old way iyswim. Then they get it after that. Hopefully it will be the same for you too.