Tell me I'm doing the right thing. DH not speaking to me.

[SourSweets]

I'm sleep training our 7 month old. I was always against the idea until recently. He eats plenty during the day, he doesn't need feeding.

This is the fifth night. It's gone like this:

First night: awful.
Second night: better
Third night: good
Fourth night: perfect
Fifth night: awful (so far)

DH says he doesn't understand why I don't just pick him up. We have discussed this before starting and he was totally supportive but now we're in it he's finding it hard. So am I. It is hard, I get it. But after an hour of crying the baby has finally gone to sleep, I've asked if DH is ok. He says yes. I say I know it's hard, but I'm not having a one or two or three year old who won't sleep in his cot because he's been taught he doesn't have to. He says fine. I ask if he's in a mood, he says no. He clearly is.

It IS the right thing to do, isn't it? DH says I might aswell leave the room and abandon him if I'm not going to pick him up. I'm still comforting him though, I hand hold, re-dummy, tuck in and stroke. I just don't talk, feed or cuddle.

Has anyone done the same? I'd love to hear tales of success please. Reassure me that I'm not an evil bitch. At this stage we all need a decent night's sleep, the baby included. I'm doing no-one any favours by letting it continue. (Hear the desperation as I try to convince myself?)

Thank you, as always.

Sour, you're right, 5-10 wakings a night isn't sustainable. I don't know anyone who could keep that up for long without losing their minds. We did CC with DD at 17 months so it's a bit different because she could speak and understand us and knew where we were and what was going on. But I did almost lose my mind for those 18 months. We did something like you describe at 7 months and it got her waking down to once or twice a night for a bottle. We decided we could live with that so we left it there until she was older.Co-sleeping didn't help except on the worst nights because she was a noisy sleeper with fists and legs going everywhere. You sound like a very caring mum so don't take implied criticisms too much to heart. It's a sensitive topic at the best of times let alone when you're chronically sleep deprived.

Anyway it sounds to me like it's a suck to sleep association your DS has rather than a need for food or comfort exactly. DD was the same. You say you replug the dummy while you're in there and that when he goes on the boob he used to have a few sucks then fall back asleep. I'd guess that what's happening is he's falling asleep either sucking on boob or dummy. That's why the waking is after each sleep cycle of 1hour-1.5 hours - he needs to suck again at that point and once he's awake he finds it hard to get back to sleep. 7/8 months is around when they develop object permanence so he's remembering that he was sucking something when he fell asleep then it's gone when he half-wakes in the night and that freaks him out enough to fully wake him up each time to look for it.

The first crucial thing with suck to sleep associations is that he either goes to sleep without sucking at the start of the night or that he can replug his own dummy throughout the night when he partially wakes. Or else you wean off the dummy completely which it sounds like you don't want to do. We made sure there was a gap between DD's last bottle at night and sleep. we had bottle, then bath, then bed. We also stuck her dummies on a Sleepytot and sewed it to her sleeping bag. Then we taught her to how to find them and replug them for herself during the night. She had a little nightlight on so she could see but could just feel where it was too. That might help you. She managed that at about 6 months after a few weeks of practice with it.

What also made it easier for us and DD was leaving a bottle/sippy cup of water and a snack in her cot at night. Maybe your DS is too young to be able to do that for himself but it reassured us while sleep training and weaning off the bottle that she wasn't hungry/thirsty. We'd just go in and hand them to her at first, then just remind her where they were and after a while she helped herself. We phased the snack out then once she was reliably sleeping through.

You staying in the room rather than doing CCing where you leave and return at intervals does take longer to work and involve more crying because they can see you there so they keep protesting for longer. But at the same time it's easier for a baby that age I think because they know they're not abandoned, they're just not getting what they want from you. So they're frustrated but not scared.
Hope this isn't stuff you've already tried. Good luck!

Hi you asked for links that may give you more info. I found the following very useful and I like to read it several times a day when I am exhausted from multiple night wake ups / feeds
kellymom.com/bf/normal/comfortnursing/

If your DH can't bear it then he can't bear it.

If someone had forced me to do this with one of my seven month olds against my instinct I would have been more than grumpy.

Your issue isn't whether you are 'right' or whether the baby is well fed enough to sleep through. It's whether you are both, as parents, fully on board and comfortable with sleep training.

he is 7 months old, such a small baby. is he teething?

he need comfort, fine. give him the bloody comfort.

My daughter is just over 2yo and sleeps wonderfully all night long without a peep.

And yet I always fed her on demand when she needed when she asked. teething, illnesses, nightmares, she needs comfort, i give her comfort. and yet I did not spoil her or create any rod as she sleeps all night and I never forced any night weaning.

how do you expect the baby to react? Mummy is there, but mummy isn't talking to them or cuddling? no matter how loving during the day the truth is you are abandoning them in the night when they need it most.

There are gorwn up women who post here and other places how they can't sleep when they OH are away... because they don't like being alone... How do you think a BABY feels?

You waking that much isn't sustainable, you are right, you will end up ill.

But 7 months is too young.

My first instinct would be for you to sleep in another room for a few nights and let DH get up with him. He wakes and cries - DH picks up, you aren't there for food, but he is fully comforted. He'll cry and cry, but will eventually go back to sleep presumably on your DH's shoulder, then he can be put back down.

Worth a try? - seeing as you're now at the point where you're in the zone with it but haven't cracked it yet?

Plus point also is that you would actually end up sleeping through for one or two nights, which will allow you to feel a bit more normal for a start.

It depends on what your definition of night is?
And sleeping through?
If it's just a normal expectation of getting 6 hours sleep, then I think most people understand the want it need for that
But if you want 7-7, 12 hours, then imo 7 months is too early

But hey two of mine never slept well!

Her DH is back on board fideline. It sounds to me like maybe he didn't fully understand what was involved or why they were doing it before they started. The thing about sleep training is that stopping and starting actually makes it harder on the baby in the end. That's something people need to understand before they start. I do think either partner should be allowed to call it off if they discover they really just can't do it but they should fully understand what they're agreeing to first and the consequences of being inconsistent. If her DH didn't understand why she wasn't picking him up, or the difference between leaving the room and staying and comforting then he really didn't understand sleep training. Hopefully he does now.

7 months is far too young for sleep training.

My experience of sleep training my DD - as that's what you've asked for! We did disappearing chair/gradual retreat (whatever you want to call it) at about 8 months. She was waking 4 or 5 times a night and wasn't a happy baby in the day cos she was so tired. We were on our knees and I didn't sleep well when we co-slept.

Within a week she was sleeping better and within a fortnight sleeping through. When that happened she was happier during the days and napped better during the day too. I felt like I'd learnt to interpret her cries better too.

I'm not evangelical about sleep training but I know it was right for us. She was much happier and we just couldn't have continued on that little sleep.

Hope you find the right way for you too OP

Thanks Afrikat. I've read the link, the thing is I'm not expecting my baby to do "all the accommodating" I was happy with him waking 3 times in the night, but more than that is too difficult for me to sustain and still be an enthusiastic, attentive parent during the day.

Yes Polly I do think the dummy is part of the problem. Both DH and I want to wean him off the dummy, but it seems like an impossible task at the moment. I don't know what I should do first, get him off the dummy or get him used to not bring lifted out of his cot a million times a night. I probably should do both, but taking two comforts away at once is just more than I can bear for him.

And yes, the room is warm, stays warm all night. We tried co sleeping. We tried swaddling, we tried dream feeds, we tried just getting on with it and waking with him as often as needed. (That resulted in me passing out during the day through sleep deprivation) this is our last resort.

She is comforting him. She's holding hands, stroking etc. BFing isn't the only form of comfort! It might be DS's ideal form right now but OP needs to balance that with her need to stay sane. Babies can be and are comforted perfectly well in lots of other ways. Though OP talking might help. We used to repeat something like 'it's ok DD it's sleepy time' in a boring sleepy voice. Hearing your voice can help calm him enough to get to sleep and it's easy to phase it out slowly once he can comfort himself better. It's not stimulating for them if it's the same phrase repeated in a calming boring tone.

Sorry, only just seen the other replies.

No, I'm not expecting 12 hours. I feed him when I come to bed at 11ish, and he is up for the day at 7, so that's 8 hours. I would also be happy to wake with him once or twice in between those times, just not every hour.

A lot if you are saying 7 months is too young. Fine, I'm happy to take that into consideration, but what I don't understand is where you are getting this information from? Everything I've read says between 4 and 6 months is old enough to start training. My baby wasn't ready then as he still was hungry, I could tell that. He's not anymore though which is why we started.

My husband is on board and fully understands why we're doing it and how. He was struggling last night but says he wants to continue this morning.

Maybe I do need to rethink staying in the room. I thought I was being kinder but maybe not.

You don't need to wean him off the dummy right now if it's too much. If you teach him to replug it himself then he can comfort himself in his cot making it easier for him to stay there.

I got my information from my baby? Where else would you get it from? A bunch of strangers who don't know you or your baby?

There are a million books on child rearing, all with differing opinions. At the end of the day the author is only giving their opinion, like others on here. I think 7 months is too young for sleep training.*

*I "trained" my daughter to sleep by laying next to her and closing my eyes. Babies copy adults so this method made sense to me. We are blessed with a good sleeper who now, at the age of 4, understands the meaning of the term "weekend lie-in".

Keep going, you've done most of the hard work! We just went through a sleep training programme with Andrea Grace after our 6 month old woke every 1.5 hours since birth. We stopped feeding him in the night and did a week of controlled crying (her method is to go in every 2 mins, reassure, pick up if you want but categorically don't feed). It took 4 nights of 'protest' cries (longest was 1 hours 10 mins) then click he got it! He now consistently sleeps 7pm - 6am!! We are new people!

It is tough but I totally feel we needed to go it and out little boy is much more settled in the day and contented. Just keeping talking to your DH. Mine was similar but we wanted to same thing at the end of the day and got there. Good luck!

Exactly world, I get my information from my baby too which is how I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he doesn't need feeding. I back up this information with articles online and in books and from HCP who say physiologically he is able to go 8 hours without a feed.

He would sleep all night if I stood up and rocked him all night. I can't physically do this.

Thank you Polly, I AM still comforting him. I haven't abandoned him. And of course if he is ill or teething then this all goes out of the window and I pick him up. But he isn't at the moment.

Oh and about the dummy thing we had the same. In the end a friend recommended one of these SleepyTot Large Bunny-Cream by Sleepytot www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006YFRUEO/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_LMditb1C6HHZD

It's been a lifesaver!! He can find it himself so we're not going in all the time. I have reduced his dummy time to only naps now and will probably wean him off it slowly around a year.

We sleep trained dd, we couldn't function without sleep. I was the wobbly one but nothing else except CIO worked. After 5 days you'll cause more problems if you stop than keep going. Then don't mention it to ppl as we even now get nasty comments. I'm sorry, I'm not tough enough to live with lr broken sleep...

What struck me most in one of your posts was this: i can't keep doing it. I can't keep getting up 5-10 times a night.
No, you can't. I had this and I was crazed a suicidal. I remember sitting outside in the garden with a knife in the cold, believing it would be south easier to kill myself, that I could get a rest that way. Don't underestimate what torture sleep deprivation is and how harmful it can be.
If I had my time again, I would have co-slept with DS2, but at the time, DH didn't want to, and because of stupidity on my part, I went along with it.

Maybe time to step away from the thread. Make your own decision. Sleep is an important part of being a good parent - if you aren't getting enough to function then you have to change that.

Do what works for you and ignore everyone else that isn't in your situation.

Good luck - I hope you sort something out soon - sleep deprivation is one of the worst aspects of little children (IME).

seven months old is too young for sleep training imo. He cried for an hour, no way could i have not picked him up, i totally see where your DH is coming from im afraid

world oh yes that method made sense to me too. Unfortunately it did not make sense to DD or to most other non-sleeping babies. She couldn't have given a * how long I pretended to be asleep next to her for. She does her own thing, always has.

That was misleading, I'm sorry. He didn't cry for a full hour, he was awake for an hour and alternating between silence, grizzling and full blown crying. It was still very very hard.

DH has just sent me a very supportive email from work saying that we've had him for 221 nights. He's only cried on 2 of the 5 nights of sleep training, every other time for 219 nights I've immediately taken him into my arms when he's made a sound. I'm not a bad mother for those 2 nights.

I do think he's old enough. I know my baby. I am doing this with good intentions for all of us, it's hard and I don't blame anyone for not doing it, but I don't feel I should be judged for choosing to try.

Cunty, I'm so sorry you had such an awful time. It was feelings like these that have brought me to where I am now. I never in a million years thought id be doing it, but here I am.

Gen, my worry is that if I stop it'll be worse in the long run. The NHS advice I was personally given said that it takes 6 nights. Tonight is the 6th, so I'm going to see how tonight is and take it from there.

Polly I'm so glad you're returning to this thread, thank you.

soursweets I really feel for you, it is ghastly, and so hard to think sensibly about it when you are just so desperate. Maybe try and split the problem up into its parts and then work out what to tackle first? As far as I can see you've got: a) still feeding at night, b) waking lots even when not for a feed, c) will only be settled by you not DH, d) insists on being picked up and won't be soothed in cot, e) reliant on dummy. I think you're right that you can't deal with all of those at once. I think if you are removing night feeds you should keep the dummy for comfort for now. Personally I would focus on c) - to share the load - and d) as a first step towards self-settling, but it probably doesn't matter as long as you start somewhere.