Jo Frost Controlled Timed Crying for 9mo baby

(136 Posts)
DrGarnettsWinterMixture Wed 13-Mar-13 20:01:17

Has anyone used Jo Frost's method of controlled crying, or anything similar please? Link here www.jofrost.com/controlled-timed-crying-technique-ctct/

We're desperate, and need very clear guidelines to follow-I nearly had a car accident this morning after ages spent getting him to sleep yesterday, then multiple wakings in the night (including screaming for more than 45 minutes-he was clean, dry, warm, not hungry or thirsty and had had some calpol, no signs of teething other than being very upset). He starts the evenings in his cot and ends up in our bed when we go up about ten.

He took an hour to go to sleep tonight, with hysterical screaming when he was put in his cot, and has woken up three times already. He isn't ill, I'm really sure of this, he just wants us to be there while he sleeps.

I thought he would naturally work towards more time in cot, less in our bed and learn to settle himself, but it just seems to be getting worse, and I was so tired this morning I really frightened myself on the motorway-I think I was almost asleep while I was driving and got way closer to someone than I should, then they had to slam on their brakes.

Please help sad

DrGarnettsWinterMixture Wed 13-Mar-13 20:02:37

Forgot to say he has a very good bedtime routine, milk, bath, clean nappy and babygro, then a story and a song. Hasn't needed milk at night for over two months.

nectarini1983 Wed 13-Mar-13 20:57:08

I hear you loud and clear sister! ! Having same problem with my 12 month old son . He starts off in his cot but just wants to sleep in with us....but its got to stop as he grizzles and fidgets all night so none of us sleep! B

Our 3 year old daughter goes to bed like a dream, she would self soothe from a much younger age so never got to these extremes with her. I think it's stemmed from not wanting his crying in the night to wake her up but now I'm worried that if she finds her little brother in our bed every morning that she'll start to feel left out and start playing up too?

I go back to work next week so things have got to change! I know it's our fault for letting it get this bad!!

So if im hijacking your post but was about to post myself when I read yours! maybe we could both try Jo Frost's technique together tomorrow and see how we get on?!?! And anyone else who's in the same boat?

habbibu Wed 13-Mar-13 21:49:44

It's grim, isn't it? Gradual withdrawal was the thing that worked with its - you sit really close the first night, and stay till sound asleep, a wee bit further away the next night, etc etc until you're outside the door. Person not on duty tht night supplies tea and wine.

I did something very similar to Jo's technique, it worked in about 4 days. I did it for naps and bedtime. If he woke during the night we would co-sleep.
At that time, he was having 3 naps a day, so I always made sure the late afternoon nap was a good one so he was 'ready' for bed. For the late afternoon nap we would co-sleep or I'd put him in the sling or buggy and let him sleep 4pm-5pm. Our CC went like this.

Make sure baby is fed, clean nappy, winded etc.
- Say 'night-night daddy' (even when daddy isn't there! Give baby a signal so they know what is coming)
- Take to bedroom, have a cuddle and the same song. put into cot, into sleeping bag and give dummy or teddy if you use one. Say 'it's bedtime now, I'll come and get you soon'.
- Turn off light and leave.
- Baby will cry. Leave for 3 minutes.
- Do a 'check'. Our check involved picking baby up, cuddle, sing song if needed, back into cot with teddy. Always waited until baby was calm before being put back into the cot.
- Leave for 5 minutes
- Baby still crying? Time for another 'check'.
- Repeat for 7 minutes, then every 10 minutes afterwards.

We used to say that if LO cried for more than 30 minutes in total we'd get him up and try again in another hour.

You need to learn the differences between his cries. If your baby is just moaning and grizzling, leave him. If he is screaming his little heart out like his world is ending, ignore the clock and go in. Calm him back down and start again.

Some babies don't like being picked up, it makes them angrier. Other babies don't need a teddy, or a song etc. You know your baby best! Also, try not to let him sleep any more than about 3-4 hours between 7am and 7pm.

The first evening, he cried for about 20 minutes, the second night he cried for about 15 minutes, the 3rd night about 3 minutes (was falling asleep when I went to do the first check!) and on the 4th night he cried for about 30 seconds and slept well.

Also: Get a notebook. Keep track of your baby's sleep patterns for 3 days. See if you can see any patterns. I noticed that when my baby had a good breakfast he woke later than 6am. When you start the 'sleep-training' keep notes again, it helps you to see the progress you're making. Also, write down exactly what your plan is, so it's easy to refer to. Get a stopwatch (on your phone?), I have a count-down timer so it would go off after 3 minutes so I could just get on with the washing up etc and keep myself distracted from the crying.

We did it at 5 months (early I know - serious mental health issues called for it). He is now 10.5 months old, sleeps 10-13 hours straight most nights. Some nights he still wakes, so we co-sleep then.

habbibu Thu 14-Mar-13 14:06:26

Yy to checking cries. Cc was a no go with mine because they screamed up, rather than down, iyswim? Being left, calmed down then left again etc drove them into purple blotchy frenzies, and they work themselves up more and more. So I haven't seen the classic way it works, but that's not to say that some babies might not take to it ok.

DrGarnettsWinterMixture Thu 14-Mar-13 14:26:41

Thanks Visualise, that is great-your checks sound very comforting and reassuring. I've added a stopwatch to my shopping list, and will print off your post to keep us on track!

nectarini, how are you doing? DH and I have decided to go for this (with him in charge and me hiding downstairs, and using Visualise's comfort technique!) but are going to wait for a couple of weeks till we both have some holiday time-if it's awful, it will be good to have the next day(s) off work till we crack it...

habbibu, that is a concern-DS does seem to scream up, but we have to do something, so have decided to give this a two week, absolutely consistent trial and hope it gets us somewhere.

nectarini1983 Thu 14-Mar-13 20:37:59

Well I tried it last night as he woke up at 9 (asleep from 7.30) in his cot so thought id give it a whirl as had dry bum and had a good size dinner and bottle earlier...checked on him after 2, 4, 8, 12 then 16 minutes and 16 minute check he was well away. He did cry quite a lot and kept standing up rattling his cot bars to start with (poor darlin) so had to keep laying him back down which he didn't likebut he gave in eveventually. ...and ended up sleeping with his head at bottom of his cot!

He slept til 2 (which is good as normally he'll be in with us by then fidgeting about like a good un.) I repeated again and by 12 mins he was asleep. He pretty much stayed laying down this time. He slept til 6.30. And wasn't even disturbed by noisy hubby getting up and ready for work at 5.

Tried it tonight after usual bath, bottle, stories, lullabies, cuddles. He was asleep by the 8 min check!!!!!!!

Ill let you know how I get on tonight tomorrow.!

My hubby's letting me get on with it. Im not expecting it to be a breeze but do feel im at least taking control a bit now!

DrGarnettsWinterMixture Fri 15-Mar-13 14:43:51

Wow, that sounds great! Really glad you've got off to such a good start, maybe you'll let me know how it goes tonight?

Quick question-when you do the checks, do you wait till he has settled and is calm again, then leave the room and restart the time?

Good going nectarini!

Sleepyfergus Fri 15-Mar-13 15:52:27

God, I could have written your posts. Dd2 is 8.5mths and co sleeps with me (DH on sofa!). She used to be a model baby, sleeping all the way through but from about 5-6 mths has deteriorated. She'll go down in her cot after usual bath/bf bedtime routine, but is awake 30 mins later. And so on every 30 mins until we give in and DH will take her round the block in the buggy to drop off. Then she can sleep for about 1-2 hours. When she wakes up I take her up to bed with me. She doesn't sleep too badly with me, the odd fidget or bf, on the whole she's pretty still.

We ended up like this as when she started waking we didn't want her cries to wake dd1. They are in sep rooms but next door to one another a d the walls are pretty thin (modern house).

I've been trying to read 'no cry sleep solution' which mentions keeping a sleep diary. I'm trying to find the time to read the bloody thing to see what to do! I like the sound of the routine posted above though. If I can palm dd1 off to the grandparents one weekend, I'm tempted to give it a go. Like a pp, I'm due back at work at beg of April so keen to get it nailed by then <hollow laugh>

If also like to drop the night bf feedings, as it ends up being me doing all the night work, although at least I have the bed! Poor DH on sofa that is too short for him! I guess the key is to get her sleeping in her cot consistently before stopping the feeds. A lot of it is just comfort suckling though, not actual feeding iykwim. She is very clingy to me as a result. Loves her daddy during the day, but only I will do at night else lots of crying!!

Good luck folks, I'll keep on eye on this thread for progress and report back on what we do too. It's nice to know I'm not alone! <sob>

DrGarnetts - if you've waited 3 minutes, gone in and calmed baby, then reset clock to 5 minutes. After each 'check' lengthen the time by 2 minutes (or double the previous time)

If you went in early because baby was screaming then reset to 3 minutes.

Does that make sense?

freelancegirl Fri 15-Mar-13 16:25:44

Watching too as haven't seen Jo Frosts take on it before and also like the way you laid it out too Visualise.

DS is 8 months and hasn't really slept well since about 12 weeks, when for one short week I thought we'd cracked it. We now completely co sleep as it was just too hard to get him back in his cot when we moved it to his own room. I've been thinking of moving the cor back into our room and trying something like the above but not sure whether I should just do it in his own room to save myself repeating the process.

The trouble is that half of me has got used to waking up next to a cute little baby smile. His own cot in his own room now feels like miles away! But it would be wonderful if he could learn to self settle rsrher than feed to brief sleeps. It would also be nice to have an evening bsck as he too wakes up every half hour before we go to bed then on average 2 - 3 short, fed back to sleep wake ups and finally up at 7am.

Please let us know how you get on OP and any others! I'm waiting until after a couple of trips away (and putting it off generally in the vague hope it will solve itself and also as I'll miss him smile )

OneLittleToddleTerror Fri 15-Mar-13 16:34:20

Basically what VisualiseAHouse said. But as she said, every baby is different. Mine can't be left alone for more than 5-7min. By 10min she'd be hysterical. (Basically sobbing so hard you can see her chest heaving, and won't stop even if we picked her up). It's basically recognising and stopping them before they get themselves into a state.

I think it's important to find the maximum limit and it seems none of these website says this. They seem to imply you could double the time forever. DD could go on for hours once she's hysterical.

SleepyFergus - I did the CC first before night weaning, as I was happy to co-sleep and BF on and off throughout the night. The aim of our CC was to get baby into bed without 3 hours of crying/rocking/singing/doing whatever it took to get him to sleep!

Sleepyfergus Fri 15-Mar-13 16:35:27

I too would be lying if I said I wouldn't miss cuddling her, and she does this lovely intense thing of having to have a hand on me (face, chest etc) which is very sweet.

And yes, I too keep hoping that it will just sort itself out!

The trouble is that half of me has got used to waking up next to a cute little baby - haha I'm the same, my LO slept right through (12 hours) for about 2 months, and I really missed waking up next to him! Now, of course, he's gone back to waking up at 4am and we end up co-sleeping smile

OneLittleToddleTerror Fri 15-Mar-13 16:54:09

I coslept until DD was 19 or 20mo. That's why she started being really annoying in bed. Headbutting, moving my arms so she can snuggle up to my chest, poking my face, etc. It's not a problem until it's a problem grin

freelancegirl Fri 15-Mar-13 16:59:18

Co-sleeping was a problem for me at first as DH was against it (annoying how people sometimes can only be aware of one set method touted by the books - ie baby sleeps in cot from 7pm until 7am smile ) but now he is used to it too having been subtley read lots about how positive an experience it can be. I could carry on if i knew one day he would sleep on his own and sleep longer. One day I am sure he will! But do we have to do some sort of (albeit not abandoning them) training.

nectarini1983 Fri 15-Mar-13 19:30:35

Can't believe how many people actually have problems with their baby sleeping. I'm sure in real life people exaggerate what a good sleeper they've got!!!!!

Anyway...my latest. ... little man slept 8.30-3 last night! !!! Amazing 6 hours....normally don't get that much sleep in one hit unless kids have gone to my parents for the night he he! When he woke at 3 I went and did a check and a 'sshhh' stroke and then checked again after 2 mins, he was asleep before had to do 4 min check. He woke up 30 mins later and did same again, he'd settled before 8 min check was due. Hes not full on balling either, more of a moany cry and hes not standing up in cot, stays laying down. He slept til 7.

Tonight. ...usual routine and asleep before 4 min check due!!!

So glad ive tried this. I do miss having a snuggle but desperately need more sleep than have been getting since he was born. And hubby was starting to get narked about being kicked in the back all night and woken constantly with the grizzles then going to work.

Will update tomo with tonight's progress.

Good luck to anyone else going through the same!!

SanityClause Fri 15-Mar-13 19:42:37

What I did was this.

I put DD to bed, said goodnight, then stayed in the room, not interacting with her at all. After a while, I would say, I'm just going out, and I'll be straight back. And that is what I would do.

And when I came back, no interacting again. (I would just sort of faff around a bit.) then, I'd say I'm just going into my room (which was right next door) and I'll be straight back. And that's what I'd do. And then more faffing, and gradually going out for a little longer each time, but always doing exactly what I said I would do.

In he end I would say, I'll just be downstairs and I'll look in on you later, and I would go out.

After a couple of weeks of such faffery, she was going to sleep on her own.

I did similar if she woke in the night.

(I have three DC, but I remember the first one most clearly - maybe she was the one who I had most trouble with!)

seeker Fri 15-Mar-13 19:49:16

If co sleeping works, then why not just keep doing it- there's no law which says th have to be in their own beds, you know. Co sleeping isn't giving in, or failing or anything like that- it's just doing something millions of people throughout the world do.

Whatever gets the most people the most sleep.

TheSecondComing Fri 15-Mar-13 19:59:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker Fri 15-Mar-13 20:04:29

Absolutely, she has had enough- but she is trying not to co sleep.

LynetteScavo England Fri 15-Mar-13 20:09:59

Gradual withdrawal worked with DS1. At 9 months if I tried to leave him in his cot he would immediately be physically sick with anxiety, so it was our only choice.

This whole timing thing sounds horrendous. sad

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