Trying to teach self settling - am I doing the right thing?

[Knackeredmum13]

DS is four months old and a really awful sleeper. He either needs feeding or rocking to sleep. He doesn't have a set bedtime as it really varies as to when he will relent and go to sleep. This means that most evenings he is up til very late with DH while I go to bed early to get some sleep before the two hourly night feeds start.

This is taking its toll on DH and I and also on our relationship. He gets home from work, we eat dinner and then I go to bed. We get no time together and we are both tired all of the time.

DH has had enough and wants to start controlled crying. Everyone he works with has apparently done it and their children now sleep through the night. I'm not up for doing CC but I do want to improve DS sleep if we can. The nurse who did his jabs told me that he has no physical need to eat every two hours at night and that I need to be getting him sleeping in his cot. She said if I teach him to self settle he will start sleeping longer at night.

But how do I teach self settling?? I've tried three times this week to put him down for a nap using the sshhh pat technique. The first day it worked and DS was asleep within 20 minutes. The second time he cried for an hour before I gave in and fed him to sleep. I've just tried again for 45 minutes and again have caved and got him up. He gets in such a state, real tears and a cry I've not heard before. He is now grizzling in his bouncy chair.

Should I be doing something differently?

4 months is too old to do cc, in my opinion. It's also a known age for crappy sleep (google 3 month sleep regression). I got through DD's regression, which lasted nearly 2 months, by feeding whenever she woke up and co-sleeping. Then at 5.5 months I taught her to self-settle. A version of sshh-pat worked for us (more soothing words-tummy rub in our case). I think it's usual to see progress and then for Dc to protest - DD had about 2 nights of being hysterical at bedtime about 3 days into my teaching her to self settle. I just fed her to sleep those nights, but kept trying the self settling routine and on the 3rd night it started working again.

An alternative to sshh-pat is pick-up-put-down. The No Cry Sleep Solution book also has gentle sleep training ideas.

And, finally, self settling didn't immediately improve DD's wake-ups, but did dramatically shorten bedtime routine and eventually paid off in terms of night wakings. Oh - and a fixed bedtime routine at same time each night is also important!

Sorry - should of course say 4mo is too young for cc!

Jesus and 4, not 3 month regression.

Unfortunately this isn't a sleep regression he has always been like this

We have a bedtime routine but he doesn't usually go to sleep after the whole bath, feed routine. He may eventually drop off after ages of being rocked in his bouncer but he wont always stay asleep for very long. DH usually spends his evenings rocking DS in his chair to keep putting him back to sleep. DH wants to be able to put him to bed at a reasonable time.

I agree that I think he is too young for CC. Up til now I've gone to him as soon as he started to cry. At night I've gone to him when I hear him stirring before he has got upset. Maybe that's a failing on my part and I should have waited h til he was crying to feed him.

Really recommend No-Cry SS -- it's a very sympathetic book and made me feel a lot better straight away. My 9mo dd had somehow made it up to 8 wakeups a night, all requiring milk, but with some of the suggestions we've managed to get it down to roughly 11pm, 2.30am and 6am, which is a MASSIVE improvement for us. It's taken about three very tough weeks of bending over into dd's cot in the small hours of the morning, so we're going to leave it there for the moment.

Agreeing on an approach and trying to take more equal turns at dealing with night wakeups (because we really wanted dd to stop needing milk 8 times a night!) also radically improved my relationship with dh..

Ok I'm off to look for it on Amazon!

My DS is now 8 months, and at that age was feeding every two hours. I just accepted that was what he needed, even though I was on my knees with exhaustion. It was not the easy option, but I stuck with it.

I too went to him every time he cried - because I believe that babies cry for a reason. It is there only way of communicating with you.

He now only wakes at 11pm and 4am for milk. He done this all by himself- and believe me I never thought that this would happen! He settles for naps and bedtime without fuss or upset. I believe this is down to him knowing that if he needs me then I will be there. I stay with him/cuddle him until he falls asleep, and I go back in if he cries later on. Often he will self settle before I even get into our bedroom, so I end up not going in!

Lots of people will suggest CC - It's an easier option compared to more gentle approaches (not easier in the sense that it's awful to listen to LO crying, but in the sense that people in RL claim it works after 4/5 nights)

It's not something I agree with. Leaving a baby to cry isn't teaching them to self settle IMO. It just teaches them that no one is coming and they should give up (they cannot possibly tell the difference between 5 minutes and eternity, they have no concept of time)

What are his daytime naps like? Is he overtired?

'DS is four months old and a really awful sleeper'

I'm sorry Op, but babies of four months old and generally up to around a year are usually awful sleepers.

It doesn't mean they are broken and need fixing...your DH has got some daft ideas

I'm really glad you're not up for doing CC. Babies NEED us to be responsive and to pick them up when they are crying. If it was daytime you would - so it's entirely right to continue at night as they don't understand the difference.

You're right to follow your instincts and his. They are there for a reason, they are important.

Please please don't listen to anyone who pressures you to ignore your child's cries. It's obviously really upsetting him and you.

Take care

By the way - you sound like a lovely mum with all the right instincts. Just stick to them - babies DO sleep better in the end, and the more you are there for them, the more they are confident later on that you will be there and will (according to research) cry less.

I have three boys, my youngest is 11mo and still cries at night but only because he is uncomfortable, or worried because I've gone, or too hot or cold or having a bad dream, etc. And sometimes he needs a drink in the night.

That is FINE. I co sleep next to him so never have to go far to be there. I can't imagine leaving him on his own to cry for whatever reason he's crying. I do know it's never just crying for the sake of it - why would he - it hurts to cry.

I hope this comes across in the right way. I can't bear to think of your little one crying for you and you feeling so rotten not going to him, or lifting him up...their little lives as babies are so short and why can't we just cuddle them when they ask us to.

Do what he needs and what YOU feel is the right response to him. You're his mother. You can do that. It's your right and your choice.

He sounds like a perfectly normal sleeper for 4 months old - please don't think that you're doing anything wrong. It's mad to wait until a baby is crying at night before you feed them - just gets everyone more awake and they take much longer to resettle.

You sound like you're doing everything right to me, just keep doing what you're doing, his sleep will get better as he gets older.

Everyone is right , you sound like a wonderful mum. Keep trusting your instincts and do not be pressured by others. Take care OP

The No Cry Sleep Solution has good tips for helping your baby to settle.
Four months is notoriously tricky for sleep though, most babies' sleep goes haywire and/or gets worse around that time.

When he's a little older you can gently encourage him to settle without needing feeding, rocking etc every time.

Look, we all want to respond immediately all the time to every baby but it's not always possible, anyone with twins? Older toddlers?
My sister jumped to every whimper from her son, never encouraged him to settle back to sleep in a cot ... He is 3.5 now and completely ruling the roost, refuses to sleep until after 10pm and up at 5am, often with a 2-3 hour wakeful, shouty time in the middle of the night.
She's due baby no2 soon and has no idea how she's going to cope.

'My sister jumped to every whimper from her son, never encouraged him to settle back to sleep in a cot ... He is 3.5 now and completely ruling the roost, refuses to sleep until after 10pm and up at 5am, often with a 2-3 hour wakeful, shouty time in the middle of the night.
She's due baby no2 soon and has no idea how she's going to cope.'

He's probably a bit unsettled about the new baby - this is also totally normal. Or maybe there are other things going on. I don't think you can blame bad behaviour on her responsiveness to him as a baby.

I have three as I said and none of them has ever 'ruled the roost' in the slightest...I always jumped at every cry, even before it got to a cry in many cases. The quicker you respond, the easier they settle back.

If you leave it you're taking a gamble - yes they may just roll over and go back to sleep but the alternative is that they DO have a physical need and they get more and more awake the longer they are waiting for it to be answered, then you have a confused, sleepy, upset baby on your hands and everyone is probably awake!

Which is why same room sleeping - if not co sleeping - is so effective.

Also - lying down isn't always a comfortable position especially if you're little and have trapped wind - which is really really common.

Just imagine you have a stomach ache in the night and can't roll over to change your position...or don't know what it is...it would be awful.

No wonder babies cry for us. It makes so much sense and as they grow and can self-adjust a bit better they learn to cope with it. Their digestion also improves massively after a short time.

No, he's always been like that! There's nothing wrong with him, she knows he's the boss and always has been.

I agree co-sleeping at four months is a good idea. At that age whatever gets maximum rest for everyone is a good idea.

This thread has been really helpful to me. I coslep with DD (nearly 3 months) and I think Rooners is totally right that doing this and being responsive means she is generally chilled and easy to settle before things escalate once I have sorted whatever the issue is.

But with Xmas coming I will be staying with relatives and am nervous about fending off their criticism. Also other mums are using CC or at least not co sleeping and seem to have longer stretches of sleep. I know from reading various things (Three in a Bed and Sears on attachment parenting) that long sleep periods at a young age isn't necessarily ideal. But it is great to hear this from others and that I'm not setting myself up for trouble! It just feels instinctive to be there and I think OP is right not to ignore that.

Roller you are, from my experience at least, absolutely not setting yourself up for trouble. DD was in a co-sleeper crib from birth - 5.5 months and during her crappy 4-month sleep regression phase (that lasted from 3.5-5.5 months) I properly co-slept a lot of the time and learnt to feed lying down, so I could quickly latch her on to boob when she woke up each of the many times she woke up each night. Co-sleeping was particularly useful when we were travelling too as there was no way I could have got her to sleep in a travel cot at that stage. She now, at 7.5 months old, goes to sleep, on her own, in her cot in her own room by about 7.15 each night, wakes once for a quickish feed, and is then back down until I have to wake her up each morning. I'm sure there will be bad patches ahead, but in no way did that period of co-sleeping and feeding her 6+ times during the night create any long-lasting problems. I'm really glad I just followed my instincts and did what it took to survive that bad patch in a way that maximised rest for me, DD and DH and didn't listen to friends who told me DD was 'playing me'

That's good to hear City. What steps did you take to get her to that point now?

Thanks everyone!

I can't remember who asked but his daytime sleep is hit and miss. He will sleep for about 30 mins a couple of times with longer naps if we are out and about and he is either in the car or being pushed around in his pram.

Last night he went down at 10.30 until 12.30, fed then woke again at 1.30 and I rocked him back to sleep. He fed again at 3.30 and 5.15. After that he slept next to
Me and just dozed a bit. Most of my NCT group say that their babies go down around 7pm and only wake for one feed. All of my DHs colleagues apparently have babies who sleep or slept through too. It's amazing because there are lots of books about babies sleeping problems yet in real life hardly anybody seems to have had any! I think people must forget!?

Yes people definitely seem to forget!

It I'd frustrating when have babies that wake for one feed though. Mine is much more like your baby. Also that sort on napping non- routine too!

And Waiting yes that is a good solution.

My ds is 4months and goes from 8pm till 7/8am (although 5am for past week hoping growth spurt lol) I would honestly advise weaning your lo, I was advised to do this by a paediatrician! He now has abit of fruit cereal in morning and then porridge at dinner, last bottle at 7.30pm then down at 8pm, you will find the longer your lo starts sleeping at night the better at napping he will be in the day
Mine isn't great at self settling either we use a paci but trying to wean him off that with Ewan the dream sheep, you could always try that google him ppl do swear by him!