Trying to teach self settling - am I doing the right thing?

[Knackeredmum13]

DS is four months old and a really awful sleeper. He either needs feeding or rocking to sleep. He doesn't have a set bedtime as it really varies as to when he will relent and go to sleep. This means that most evenings he is up til very late with DH while I go to bed early to get some sleep before the two hourly night feeds start.

This is taking its toll on DH and I and also on our relationship. He gets home from work, we eat dinner and then I go to bed. We get no time together and we are both tired all of the time.

DH has had enough and wants to start controlled crying. Everyone he works with has apparently done it and their children now sleep through the night. I'm not up for doing CC but I do want to improve DS sleep if we can. The nurse who did his jabs told me that he has no physical need to eat every two hours at night and that I need to be getting him sleeping in his cot. She said if I teach him to self settle he will start sleeping longer at night.

But how do I teach self settling?? I've tried three times this week to put him down for a nap using the sshhh pat technique. The first day it worked and DS was asleep within 20 minutes. The second time he cried for an hour before I gave in and fed him to sleep. I've just tried again for 45 minutes and again have caved and got him up. He gets in such a state, real tears and a cry I've not heard before. He is now grizzling in his bouncy chair.

Should I be doing something differently?

Weaning is advised until 6 months because of gut maturity and isn't actually proven to help sleep.

Isn't advised - obviously

Sorry for crashing in.....what a great thread! I've been torturing myself for weeks about 14 wk ds ability to self settle or sleep/lack of or number night wakings and storing up future problems. The bottom line for us at the moment is getting enough sleep to function, however we do it! They are still so little but its easy to forget when others have a perfect sleeper.

Contrary to what Betty suggests, I wouldn't suggest weaning knackered, unless like her you've been specifically advised to do so by a paediatrician. There's a reason why NHS guidelines say hold off introducing solids until 6 months. I also found that solids made absolutely no difference whatsoever to how well my DD slept (I started her on solids at 6 months, per the guidelines).

Roller this is roughly the trajectory of getting past DD's crappy 4mo sleep regression.

At about 5 mo, I started helping her learn to self-settle to sleep at night. This involved stopping feeding her to sleep (kept lights on for bedtime feed, didn't zip her into sleeping bag until after feed, read story between fed and putting down awake) and doing a version of sshh-pat to help her settle. The first night it took something like 90 minutes of me sshh-patting. She was never full-out crying, more just mantra-crying/ shouting or just chuntering away to herself. I'd ssh-pat if she was getting worked up, then would hide out of sight under her crib, and repeat. We made good progress for about 3 or 4 nights, then she majorly protested for a few nights (hysterical crying as soon as I put her down), so I just fed her to sleep on those two nights and started again. Within about 10 days (from first starting) I could put her down awake and leave the room and she'd fall asleep. At some point during those 10 days I moved from hiding under her crib between ssh-pats to leaving the room and standing by the door, going back in if I needed to help her settle, until it got to the point that I didn't need to go back in. There have been several blips of varying degrees in the 3 or so months since then, but now she consistently falls asleep on her own within about 10 minutes. Some of the blips have been pretty major (e.g. her being ill and unable to sleep other than propped up on my chest all night), but we've so far always managed to go back to self-settling quite quickly (it might take a few nights of me having to do a bit of tummy-rubbing as she falls asleep, or sitting by her cot, or popping back in a few times to help her settle).

Self-settling didn't immediately help her night-wakings though. What helped that was moving her to her own room (at 5.5. months - made a difference straight away, as I think we were disturbing her in the night) and me setting limits on when I would feed her (at about 6 months) and at other wake-ups sending DH in to settle her instead (which he'll do by picking her up and rocking her - we've never had any luck resettling her in her cot if she wakes up in the night, she either needs to be fed or picked up and rocked back to sleep). Now, at nearly 8 mo, she goes down at 7ish, feeds once in the night, and I have to wake her up between 7 & 7.30 in the morning. I'm sure it'll all go tits up soon - the one thing I've learned over the last 8 months is that her sleep progress is not a linear progression.

I have to say that I had a strong 'instinct', when I started the process, that she was ready to start self-settling. Likewise, I had a similar instinct that she could get by on fewer night feeds when I started limiting those at 6 mo. I'm now pretty sure she could be night-weaned entirely, but I can't be bothered to tackle that until after Christmas as doing one feed in the night isn't an issue for me at the moment. So, listen to your instincts on what you think will help the sleep situation, rather than what you 'think' you should be doing, or peer pressure.

Sorry for epic post - hope this is helpful.

NCT people LIE. I have no idea why, probably everybody is like "Oh god my baby wakes up 47 times but everybody else's sleeps through, I'm doing something wrong!" so they say "Oh yes she's sleeping through!" so that nobody will judge them :(

In real terms it's very, very unusual for a four month old baby to sleep through or wake once during the night. There are a few who do so without any training or suggestion but they are rare beasts!

My best tip is to turn the clock away from you. That way you can't see how often they are feeding and you can't obsess over it.

I do agree weaning isn't for everyone, I happen to make a passing comment to our paediatrician that lo seemed to be a hungry baby and waking regularly still and first thing he said was wean at 4 months and def not to use hungry milk!
It worked for us anyway and he loves breakfast and dinnertime now ??

Thanks CityDweller - that is really interesting, especially about the instinct.

YY about people lying. Although, I've reassuringly had the opposite experience - all the mums I know with babies the same age have had similar ups and downs to us - none of them have had those mythical babies that sleep through from 2 seconds old, etc.

And also to not looking at the clock. In the darkest days of DD's sleep I stopped looking at the time and stopped counting the night wake ups. That really did massively help me cope with the situation.

The other thing is that while feeding to sleep may be the bane of your life now, at some points in the future it will come in handy! It was a lifesaver when DD was ill a few weeks ago. Similarly when she went through a weird couple of days of getting hysterical at bedtime a month or so ago (think it was a cognitive leap, or something). I know that I always have that magic bullet that will calm and comfort her. Makes me want to carry on bf forever!

My instinct is definitely that DS would benefit from more sleep. When he wakes up during the day he is obviously still tired but doesn't know how to get back to sleep. He ends up screaming from exhaustion.

We have moved him into his cot tonight so that he has more space. He is currently listening to his musical teddy bear with DH poised ready to go in and do sshh pat if he starts to cry.

I don't think weaning would help as its not really hunger that's waking him most of the time. I'm just feeding as it usually settles him back to sleep quickly.

Honestly if it's not hunger waking him then I wouldn't feed him, have you tried to resettle him without feeding? Stupid question probably lol
What if you put him to bed at 7.30 then give a dreamfeed at 10.30/11pm or will he wake before this time anyway?
If you really do have to feed him keep reducing the feeds - on r they are down to 2/3 oz they will drop them!

once

He is breastfed so its not just about getting food. He nurses for comfort too.

He would be well awake by 10pm I'm afraid.

Anyway he actually went to sleep within 5 minutes of going into his cot. Fingers crossed he will sleep for at least 2 hours now.

If you are happy then I would just continue as you are. if you are suffering from sleep deprivation though I would see if cutting out his night feeds would help. I would cut them out one at a time. instead of feeding offer water and a cuddle and see if he settles. I wouldn't persist with this if he seems really distressed.

Surely this is about yours and your dh's expectations? Of course your relationship is suffering, you have a 4 month old baby! It gets better, but not just yet.
Babies that age don't sleep for long, much of the time. They like to feed and snuggle throughout the night. That's just what they do!

How did it go OP?

We got 3.5 hours from him and then he was up every hour.

Feeling your pain. My nearly 15 wk ds is doing something very similar

As someone who is due to go back to work when my DD is 4 months old, this thread is terrifying me!

OP, my DD was the same, every 2 hours for about 4 weeks. It coincided with her learning to sit up and a few other things. Now she is 7 months and we're back to around 3 wakeups a night.

Sometimes she doesn't go to sleep until 11pm, sometimes she goes down at 8pm, it all depends on her naps. What works for us is we all go up to bed, and then DH and I chat while we're settling her / she's sleeping. I catch up on sleep in the morning, we tend to sleep until 9am at the earliest.

I wish this was just a temporary blip but its been the case forever. Things have even worsened the past few nights and he is waking every hour and a half. He won't settle back to sleep either.

He is even now screaming and moaning all day too. I've no idea what the matter is!

They do say 4-5 months are a really up and down time for babies; teething, regression, their biggest growth spurt plus the 16wk vaccinations could all add up to one very unsettled and grumpy baby :(

Oh joy I've got ages to go before he goes back to my sweet little boy then sob.

This is harder than the newborn stage.

I know how you feel my ds has reflux and had no medication for the first 12 weeks it was a living nightmare I never thought I would sleep again like you up every hour and never settling! And constant screaming! It all does pass though growth spurts last a week to two, vaccination effects 7-10 days, teething obv on and off!
My lo really seemed much more content and settled once I started weaning him, I know that's not the answer for everyone but we've not looked back
And I know it seems like everybody else's baby is so happy, smiley and the worlds best sleepers but it's all lies!
In the grand scheme of things it's only a few weeks and u've come this far, I'm sure you will see a completely different baby in a month or so! You are in no way alone and doing a great job :)

Thanks Betty.

I think DS may actually be suffering due to teething so I'm going to try and see if Bonjela helps.

Exactly what City says. My DS is just 5 months and we've done almost exactly the same. He had the 4 month sleep regression (he really wasn't brill before and wasn't ss) and then about 2 weeks ago once a chest infection had cleared we 'got tough'.

No CC.

We also set 'targets' in the night and also did a dreamfeed. I would encourage you to start a bedtime routine a bit earlier and then give a dreamfeed (we use formula for this altho he's bf) and then say that he's not getting any more boob for say, three hours...then stretch it more and more. You need you OH on board for this (obvs) and so sometimes it's easier to tackle at a weekend.

We had a few tough nights and now he's sleeping through from the 10pm dreamfeed until 6/7am almost every night. We had a wake up the other night as he was cold, but that's it.

I say this to give you hope and not make you dispair. Some people will disagree, but IME (this is my second), sleep DRAMATICALLY improves once they self settle every time they go to sleep. We too (like City) have blips where he simply needs snuggly, booby cuddles , but 90% of the time he's going off on his own.

Oh, and he has a snuggly blanky thing that he uses to snuffle on his face when he's going off.