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Controlled Crying didn't work - so what now??????

61 replies

Jinty123 · 23/02/2004 05:51

Well, as you all know my dh and I started the CC last week and so far have not seen any real improvement in dd sleeping habits. She has one good day, one bad day, but on the bad days we can't see any real improvement since we started CC.

So last night she had been crying from 12.30pm periodically and at 1.30 I couldn't take it any more. I went in and picked her up (I know, I know the worst thing I could have done) and she clung to me for dear life!! Every time I tried to put her back into the cot, or even moved toward it she would cling even more and get quite distressed.

Eventually I gave in and took her into my bed in the spare room (dh and I sleep separately so that one is on duty and the other gets some sleep). She fell asleep within 5 minutes and didn't rise until 6am when I think her tummy started grumbling

Should I try Attachement Parenting and if so, does anyone know where I can get information on it?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

OP posts:
twiglett · 23/02/2004 09:13

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CountessDracula · 23/02/2004 09:15

Jinty how old is your dd? We tried it at 6 months and it didn't work and again at 8 months and it did

collision · 23/02/2004 09:23

I have to agree with Twiglett. I think you gave up too soon. We did CC with ds and I had to force dh not to go and pick him up. It feels awful but they have to learn to go back to sleep themselves. From your thread I presume she was asleep b4 12.30 but then woke up....is that right? I would have gone in after 5 mins and put her back down and then just gone in periodically without speaking to her and maybe patted her a bit on the back. Ds now sleeps from 7.30pm til 8am. Persevere and it really is worth it.

ps....friend of mine still has her 4yr old in bed with her.....nightmare!!

aloha · 23/02/2004 09:51

My experience was precisely the same as CD's. No good at 6months, easy at 8months.

bloss · 23/02/2004 12:11

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Clayhead · 23/02/2004 12:25

It was after an experience similar to yours that we started co-sleeping with dd (she was about 5 months then, she's 26 months now) and it was the best thing we ever did. I'm angry now that no one (hv, family etc) ever suggested to us that it was an option at the time and we were left for 5 tortuous months to work things out for ourselves. DD went into her own bed at 18 months and now goes to bed qute happily by herself, without ever having used cc.

I have absolutely no problem with cc and can see that it works well for some people but there are other options if it isn't for you. Like Bloss says, some people just aren't cut out for cc and I wish that I'd accepted that for myself much earlier on in dd's life. I went from having severely disrupted nights to having a full night's sleep. With ds, 6 months, I've found it so much easier as I've at least got a variety of options to try and more confidence in following my gut feeling.

You asked for any information, you could try '3 in a Bed' by Deborah Jackson.

I also can't see why picking up your child when she's seriously distressed could be the wrong thing to do, IMHO but then I accept that I'm a soft touch .

Clayhead · 23/02/2004 12:28

Just to add, I felt such a failure for not doing the cc thing and at dd's 8 month check my hv made a point of writing 'Sleeps with parents' across a whole section of dd's red book and berated me for our decision. I can see now though that that is exactly what it was, our decision; we found what suited us and went with it.

Jinty123 · 23/02/2004 13:46

My dd is 10 months and the CC worked at 5 months like a charm, but now doesn't seem to be making a jot of difference.

I appreciate everyone's input and will see what DH says this evening. Perhaps it's just that CC is not for us - I know I'm a big softie and so is my dh, especially as our dd is our first

I also had the impression from the books I've read (Dr Ferber being one of them) that you should see a marked difference within at least 3 days and we've been doing this now for 5 days with no real improvement. But maybe the fact that I'm going through hell is making it seem longer

Thanks again Ladies!

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suedonim · 23/02/2004 17:06

Two days CC was more than enough for us to bear, Jinty. Dd cried for over 3hours, vomited everywhere, was smeared with snot and trembled like a leaf. Next day she was ill-looking, pale, baggy eyed and even clingier than usual. I just did not believe that was good for her and we went back to bed sharing. She eventually slept in her own bed around 2.5yrs of age. I'm sure some/most children don't get worked up into this sort of state and respond easily to CC but mine wasn't one of them. Going with your heart is the best way forward, I think.

If you put attachment parenting into Google, you'll get lots of sites up. Pick and choose what suits you, you don't have to do it all! Best wishes.

bloss · 23/02/2004 21:48

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allatsea · 23/02/2004 21:58

I'm a bit of a baby whisperer fan - we did controlled crying with dd and it worked fine. This time we did pick up/put down with ds. The idea is similar in that you want the child to learn how to settle themselves, but with the BW approach you stay with the child. I found it less heartbreaking than sitting in another room and listening to dd cry, at least I was with ds, patting his back etc etc It worked really well for us and he now usually takes no longer than 5 minutes to settle to sleep, even when overtired
One of Tracey Hogg's (the BW author) mantras is 'if you are as consistent withthe new system as you were with the old, then it will work'. She also says that you have to expect them to cry since you are no longer doing what they are used to. She says that it usually takes 3 days of the new approach for it to work, with a relapse on day 5, then everything's ok again. That was certainly true with us
Hope this hasn't muddled you Jinty, but whatever you choose to do,good luck with it!

miggy · 23/02/2004 22:02

just to add support to you doing whats right for you. DS1 was like suedonims dd, vomit snot tears etc and I gave up on the 4th night when after persevering for 3 hrs on each of the previous nights, I went in and found he had fallen asleep sitting hunched up in the corner with tears running down his face. I just couldnt do it. But lots of people find it really successful and lots of children arent as "hard", I do think all the books make it sound much easier than it is though. Downside is that we have had only about 5 nights in the last 10 yrs with no children in the bed though- so think carefully before you decide

shrub · 23/02/2004 22:07

if you are interested in attachment parenting try 'the continuum concept' by jean lleidloff (spelling?). she went to south america as a student and returned later to observe a tribe of people called 'the yequana" for a year to find out why their babies didn't cry..... a life changing book.

hercules · 23/02/2004 22:22

Jinty, dh and i do attachment parenting although did this before reading about it as it seemed natural for us. Co slept and bf and slinged around for a long time and am doing the same for dd. We didnt do it because of the concept but it suited us and we dont follow a certain book or anything like that.
However as I'm going back to work with dd I cant say that I would never do cc as with ds I was sahm.
DS had no problems getting to sleep on his own without being taught and he went to full time nursery when he was three with no problems.
He's now 8 and very confident and independant.
you should choose what is right for you as a family and perhaps pick and choose from different ideas iyswim.
Let me know if you want to know anymore about attachment parenting.

hercules · 23/02/2004 22:25

btw I dont think it's about being a softie or not, before mumsnet I thought that parents who did cc were harsh but changed my mind now and cos people who do this dont do it to necessarily have an easier life for themselves but so that the whole family and child get some sleep that way.
Although we never had any probs getting full nights sleep by cosleeping.

debra64 · 23/02/2004 22:27

I had to go through this with both of my children when I stopped breastfeeding. They wanted feeding to sleep and feeding again if they awoke in the night. They were both 14 months so probably a lot older than those you are talking about but also more set in their ways and so the habit was harder to break.

I left them crying for 5 minutes, then 10 and then for a maximum of 15. When I went in I did lift them and gave them a cuddle til they calmed down. They tended to calm quickly once lifted and then I put them back down straight away and left the room. I never spoke the whole time - just gave the minimal amount of comfort to calm them down.

It took a week with my youngest child. The first few nights it would take half an hour, both to settle him to bed in the first place and when he woke up at night. Then it lessened to around half of that and by a week he was sleeping through - at least as far as I was concerned, because if he did wake up I wasn't aware of it as he just went back to sleep. I think it may have been this easy with him because he wasn't as much in the habit of feeding to sleep - he would let go of the nipple before he actually dropped off whereas my eldest would wake up as soon as the nipple fell from his mouth!

The eldest boy was the hardest experience with this method. It took a month. For the first three nights it took an hour to settle him each time. When he first went to bed and then twice through the night. He cried until he was sick for each session of the first night and the first session of the second and third night. I stood his cot on an old quilt and had a change of bedclothes ready. When he was sick I went in, did a quick change of bed and nightclothes, cuddled him and calmed him and carried right on with the routine - leaving him with as minimal fuss as possible.

After the first three days he stopped crying til he was sick (at that age I could see he was forcing himself to be sick so I guess he gave up on that one as it didn't work). However, I still had to carry on with the routine for an hour at a time for the rest of that first week. The next three weeks the time he was up got shorter and shorter until after a month he was finally going to sleep without a feed and going back to sleep if he woke up. I really do think it was this hard with him because of the attachment he had to breastfeeding to send him off to sleep.

I also think it may have been harder with my two because I was weaning them off both breastfeeding and waking during the night at once. I had to because it was the fact they expected a breastfeed that kept them awake. At the age they were, your body really doesn't want to continue being woken up during the night and I was finding it really hard to cope, so it had to be done.

It was hard, especially the throwing up part, but it was definitely worth it. I really appreciated the full nights sleep I got when it worked. I did have a relapse with the eldest boy when he was ill for three weeks once and I was so tired dealing with him through the night that I ended up letting him sleep with me for a week. This caused a relapse of a week, including the throwing up again for the first night, which had to be handled again in the same way and was again successful though in a quarter of the time.

My sister had the same problem with her son and couldn't handle this method. He slept with her all the time until he was 5. She never got a decent nights sleep as he was a restless sleeper. It caused problems between her and hubby too for obvious reasons. He's 8 in August and still sleeps with her for quite a lot of the time. This makes me so glad I stuck to my guns!

Good luck with whichever way you go.

Clayhead · 23/02/2004 22:33

Could I just second Hercules, that co-sleeping does not necessarily equal a bad night's sleep; I personally found that I slept fine when co-sleeping, although I can understand that it doesn't work for others.

Co-sleeping is often thought of as what happens when all else fails but it isn't always the case, with ds, it's a positive choice I made, I'm glad to have made and that I enjoy.

Slinky · 23/02/2004 22:40

I did CC with my middle child (my DS1) when he was just over a year old. When he was a baby, I didn't want him to disturb my DD1 (then 2) when he went to bed, so I used to rock him to sleep which was fine.

After a while, he started waking up more and more during the night, only being settled by rocking until I was up about 6-8 times a night with him He was grumpy during the day as was I!!!, so decided to try CC.

I will not lie - it was b**dy hard and it's only successful if you have 100% support of your partner. I started by putting him down, switching some music on, and leaving. He would cry and I would go back in 3/5 mins later. The maximum I left him was 10 minutes - I know some books say 15 mins but I couldn't.

After 3/4 days, marked improvement. After a week, he was sleeping through! Huge success - he was happier during the day/ate better etc as he wasn't so tired. Huge benefits to me obviously!

I didn't need to do CC with my 2 DDs, they were happy to settle themselves from a few months old.

Slinky · 23/02/2004 22:42

Forgot to say - not against co-sleeping either!

Did that with older 2 in the early months, starting from Day 1. However DD2 really didn't like sleeping in our bed and would scream, much happier in her little carrycot.

CountessDracula · 23/02/2004 22:50

Jinty had a thought earlier, if you did it successfully at 5 months, what has happened for it to regress? Illness I suspect - I have to almost do it again after dd is ill as she gets out of the habit.

debra64 · 23/02/2004 23:00

I found that it was easier to let them stay in bed with me sometimes after breastfeeding through the night. I didn't always sleep well though - I was worried they'd fall out or if they were in the middle, suffocate!

I stopped altogether at 14 months, along with the breastfeeding, because they were really getting restless and I wasn't too keen on waking up with a toe up my nose!

My youngest is 4 now and he has had a couple of times where he's crawled in with us through the night. This was when we moved house and he didn't feel happy in his new room, even with his familiar things around him. I let him do it for a few nights (slept quite soundly and didn't disturb us) but after that, gently persuaded him to go back to sleep in his own bed when he woke up. I had to revert to putting music on for him for a few days and then he was back to normal.

debra64 · 23/02/2004 23:02

part of the reason for gently persuading him otherwise was when my other two six year olds found him with us in the morning, they started waking up at night and coming to ask if they could sleep with us too! Five's a bit of a crowd!

Jinty123 · 24/02/2004 06:09

Well, last night dd went to sleep at 8.15pm and only woke at 3.45am. Came into my bed and woke again at 5.45 - so all in all it seems to be ok for the moment. At least we are all getting a LOT more sleep than a couple of days ago.

I'll probably try the CC again in a few months time, but right now hasn't been good for us as there are quite a few other things going on which are putting a bit more pressure and tension on dh and I. I think we both need to be in the right frame of mind to stick it out 100%.

But the fact that dd goes to sleep in her own cot, for at least 80% of the night is a good start.

But it's very interesting to get various perspectives on the whole sleeping topic

OP posts:
GillW · 24/02/2004 10:50

cc didn't work for us - we just ended up with vomit everywhere, a totally hysterical ds and still not asleep even after 7 hours of screaming (and I do mean screaming, not whimpering or ordingry "crying" ) on the 6th night. AND we then had the negative associations of the experience afterwards for weeks that ds would instantly vomit as soon as he was put into his cot and even when that calmed down, then as soon as he was able to climb out of it he simply wouldn't stay in it at all.

I think debra64 is the first person I've seen who has actually claimed any success with cc when you have a serial vomiter - but I guess even I might have stuck with it if it had worked after an hour each time as she said, and improved on the second night. As it was I think we ended up in a worse situation than before we started.

Jinty123 · 25/02/2004 06:35

I must admit, I agree GillW. If we had seen even the slightest improvement after the first 3 days I would have stuck to it without hesitation. But if you see no real improvement all you end up doing is putting undue pressure and stress on yourself, your dh and your LO.

We have had some success at bedtime with cc - my dd cried periodically for 45 minutes last night, but was fast asleep by 8.15pm and only woke again at 4am! Came into my bed for a small bottle and dropped off again until 5.20am. So all in all we are all getting way more sleep than we were a week ago. So right now this is what is working for us. If ever the dynamics change we will try the cc again - luckily dd isn't a vomiter, but she certainly knows how to pull at my heart strings

OP posts: