Controlled Crying didn't work - so what now??????

[Jinty123]

Well, as you all know my dh and I started the CC last week and so far have not seen any real improvement in dd sleeping habits. She has one good day, one bad day, but on the bad days we can't see any real improvement since we started CC.

So last night she had been crying from 12.30pm periodically and at 1.30 I couldn't take it any more. I went in and picked her up (I know, I know the worst thing I could have done) and she clung to me for dear life!! Every time I tried to put her back into the cot, or even moved toward it she would cling even more and get quite distressed.

Eventually I gave in and took her into my bed in the spare room (dh and I sleep separately so that one is on duty and the other gets some sleep). She fell asleep within 5 minutes and didn't rise until 6am when I think her tummy started grumbling

Should I try Attachement Parenting and if so, does anyone know where I can get information on it?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Message withdrawn

have you tried just holding her hand in the cot so she knows your there and if she wakes up in the middle of the night go in and just hold her hand and talk to her if that dont work i found a trick my mil down worked a treat tape your voice either reasuring her or singing a lulaby and every time she wakes up crying go in put the tape on and leave the room sometimes they just need the reasurance that your there hope it gets easier

Hi! Debra64, I'm doing more or less the same thing with my ds 13 mos. I plan to give up that last breastfeed before bed this weekend, we will both miss it I worry though that he'll wake hungry in the night if he doesn't have milk just before sleep... he has his tea about 5 or 6 and usually goes down about 8 after the bfeed. He's not keen on milk in a cup but likes water, juice etc. Any recommendations for snacks before bed? By the way Jinty Dr. Sears is the big attachment parenting guy, recommends co-sleeping etc. I tried his method of not feeding but still taking him into bed & cuddling at night, it didn't really work for me though.

Second daughter is 5 weeks and CC seems to work, but with her and first, the one thing that's always worried us is that the claim "it only takes a few days" is wrong. It has taken more than a week noth times to see any real results, and after that the progress is slow with a 15 min crying down period persisting on and off for several more weeks.

We don't do the goin in 5,10,15 part because we rationalise that this makes it easier (maybe) for the parents but actually prolongs things for the baby. On the unfortunate occasions where crying has gone on 45 minutes and doesn;t seem to be abating, we have aborted and given a top up feed.

As I said, it seems to be working - we have not had to visit daughter2 after 7pm bedtime for a week, with the exception of on enight when she threw up her pre-bedtime feed (because of a cold and mucus I think) and we were pretty sure she wouldn't settle straight away, so topped her up.

But I find the reality of this is that it can certainly take a while. Trouble is - when you read the books that say "Don't go in - you'll reach exactly the wrong thing" at the same time as saying "It should only take 15-30 minutes and will be gone in a few days", then you're basically stumped aren't you?

I wouldn't do CC myself but I understand why some people feel it's necessary for their family and their wellbeing. What I don't understand, however, is why you would do CC with a baby as young as 5 weeks. Ferber, who wrote the book on which the concept of CC is based, wrote that CC shouldn't be done before the baby is ONE YEAR old! 5 weeks is WAY too young IMO. The poor little mite has only just come out and has no idea about the world around him/her, he/she just needs mummy and daddy to be there, to build up trust and a loving relationship! I'm sorry if I upset anybody, but it really upsets me thinking of such a tiny baby crying for their mummy...

havent read this whole thread so apologies if im wrong but.... omg contrlled crying for a 5 wk old?????

message withdrawn

dont think its a typo cos is on another thread too

Maybe there's a misunderstanding here, and maybe I shouldn't say CC - of course dd2 needs to feed during the night and we are in no way trying to get her off that, or any feeds. What I am talking about is teaching her to go to sleep by herself when I know she -doesn't- need food. I don't believe babies are too young to learn this. The alternative is (i) to let her set her own routine, which from experience of dd1 results in typical "colicky" behaviour in the evening, or (ii) feed or soothe her to sleep every night, which will create a problem down the road.

Last night she fed then went to bed at 7pm and was quiet by 7.15. Are people saying this is cruel??

I'm sorry but this has depressed me.

What the hell is wrong with soothing a 5 week old baby top sleep?

I'm sorry, but I think for a 5 week old baby 15 minutes of crying IS cruel. At this age, and for many more weeks, I held both dd1 and dd2 and cuddled them until they were asleep. You can sort out any perceived 'problems' when they reach six months, if you must, but at 5 weeks old they have barely left your tummy, where they were looked after and cared for, without crying, 24/7. I really feel so sad thinking of such a tiny baby crying for 15 minutes... just because she wants a cuddle!

Actually it was also up to 45 minutes- that's what upset me so much at 5 weeks.

I was very gentle with dd at just 5 weeks old. I don't personally think there's anything wrong with soothing such a young baby to sleep whether it's by a nipple or a cuddle or both. I don't think they are capable of learning 'bad habits' (or good ones for that matter) at that age so I just wouldn't worry. If anything, not being v. kind to them at that age is likely to cause a problem in my opinion because they won't get to feel secure deep in themselves.

BUT if, inkstigmata, what you mean is that she didn't cry (i.e. really upset screamy crying) but kind of shuffled and grumbled, then I found my dd would do that, sometimes even when being held, on her way to sleep. Real crying I think should always be responded to, but there can be a sort of 'cry' which I came to learn was dd's way of going to sleep which was a totally different thing.

Hmmm, I see little point in an "It's cruel, they are too young to learn anything" versus the opposite argument. I'm not about to populate every thread on co-sleeping and feeding to sleep with posts all about why I think it's wrong. Sure anyone's entitled to an opinion that leaving babies to settle (yes, cry) is not right, but those of us that have experience that they learn valuable skills that way, already know about these opinions.

I think I'd prefer to just leave this alone now. Thanks

Rather than focusing on whether it is cruel to let a baby cry or not - I am more interested in how we teach them. If a baby is able to understand attention and non-attention via comfort.
A child that is comforted and not distressed, I believe, develops better communication skills and trust for things like reading cues, happiness and security.
Life has enough hard knocks and teaching a child love by responsiveness is for me logic.
I have met several people who have bf their babies to sleep until they are older and this has not created problems. Teaching your baby to go to sleep without crying - being there if need be again seems like logic to me.
Sometimes a little comfort can go a long way.

you have not populated the co-sleeping threads but have been mighty busy on the CC ones Inkstigmata.

You are new to Mumsnet I think
or perhaps just temporarily re-named..?.

I saw one of your posts last night on an older thread diary of CC which you had rekindled. I did not write anything, but went away discomforted by what you wrote and am therefore not suprised that people have responded the way they have.
Whilst we are all allowed our opinions your coverage in a short space of time on similar threads appears to asking for an argument!

I agree papillion. Only posted on cc threads with comments bound to upset people including myself. Must be a different name or someone trying to start an argument.

I was just thinking of you (while in the bath actually)
I compared the times of the name with another day - and there were quite similar associations - I will say no more, except that the thread coverage concerned me.
Something to watch out for in future so that such instigators can be ignored!

Thanks p

whoops ...I meant another name not day which is what really concerned me..

OK, now I wish I?d never posted here. But:

You are new to Mumsnet I think or perhaps just temporarily re-named..?.
By papillon on Saturday, 24 April, 2004 4:16:46 PM

Yes, Friday was the first time I posted. I?m afraid to say that the hostile nature of the responses is such that this will be the last time too - if those who have accused me of cruelty, messageboard identity games and trying to start an argument are not willing to be more conciliatory. What a welcome.

Must be a different name or someone trying to start an argument
By hercules on Saturday, 24 April, 2004 6:21:29 PM

I don?t like either accusation. You are incorrect on the charge that I am anything other than a newcomer to the board and you are rather quick to rush to judgement, of which you have no evidence.

And how is posting about CC (which I now see I should have called ?crying down? ? which is discussed in GF and in Brian Symon as appropriate from birth) ? in CC topics ?starting an argument? I posted precisely in these threads because I ?didn?t- expect them to be used by opponents of teaching babies to settle themselves. If I wanted to start an argument, wouldn?t I have gone to topics about different philosophies and disagreed with those? I would also have thought that ? if you personally believe it is ?cruel? to let a baby cry down, then why would you be viewing CC topics and posting shocked disagreements with them? Argument, perhaps?

you have not populated the co-sleeping threads but have been mighty busy on the CC ones Inkstigmata.
your coverage in a short space of time on similar threads

Three posts on three threads. I think you have been mightily busier than me, at putting me down. As I said ? of course I?m going to post on the subject that is relevant to my experience. That?s what this is ? talking about personal experience. You are not really talking about your experience on this topic ? you are lecturing me and trying to make me feel bad. Is that what you think I came here for? It?s the opposite of what I came here for.

comments bound to upset people including myself

Forgive me but I fail to see why anyone would personalise my posts about my family's experience and assume that they were made to upset others. Do you consider even for a moment how upsetting it might be for a newcomer to be treated and accused of things the way you have just done?

For the record, the last 2 nights, dd2 (now six weeks) has gone to bed, awake, at 7pm and settled off with no fuss, been woken for a good feed at 10.30, woken herself at about 3, and there has been no crying between 7pm and 7am.

Message withdrawn

Inkstigmata

I'm posting a message of support to you and hope you come back to the site to read it.

I'm not pro or anti controlled crying/crying down, I've gone with what feels right with my two, depending on circumstances at the time.

However,I don't think it's fair to basically accuse you of cruelty. If other people disagree with your approach to controlled crying/crying down then they can say they feel strongly that it's not appropriate for a 5 week old, without resorting to accusatory language.

After I had my first child, I had really bad pnd, the result of a traumatic bereavement during the pregnancy. I wanted to hide away from the world, but plucked up the courage to go to a local "new mums" group. Everything seemed to be going ok, we were all chatting until I took out my bottle of formula milk to feed my baby. You could hear a pin drop - it went silent, everyone stared at me and then came the litany of disapproving statements and a barrage of questions about why on earth I was doing this. I just froze and then the tears began to roll down my cheeks. I managed to get my stuff together, plus babe and ran out to the car - couldn't get away fast enough.

What no-one in the room bothered to consider was that some people cannot breastfeed - in my case because of medication I have to take.

I've never been back to a group of this nature since, it was really awful being targeted like that. Luckily I have close friends with babies and children of a similar age, so I socialise with them.

I don't think Mumsnet should be a forum to sit in judgement on other people - advice yes, disagreement fine, but I don't think people should be attacked.

I hope you read this, even if you don't feel like posting again.

i feel very strongly that it is not appropiate to allow a 5 week old baby to cry for up to 45 mins.

my ds slept 12-13hrs a night from 12 weeks old of his own accord.

and the reason i read the thread is i do believe cc is nessacery in some cases but not in my opinion for a 5 week old baby.