2 year old insomniac- Mummy needs therapy!

[Novacane]

My DS, has always gone to bed later than your normal 'average' baby- it all started when he was tiny and DP commuted and came back from work late etc etc- then dreaded reflux took hold and it was impossible for any sort of bedtime routine to be established till the reflux subsided at about 14/15 month (that was a super condensed story!)
Anyway, fast forward to now, DS is 2.1, and as a I type at 10pm, he is wide awake. bouncing around in his cot, singing dancing and generally annoying me- he's been there since 8.30pm.

He gets up at 8am every day, and generally sleep for about 2hrs in the afternoon, but sometimes he doesnt nap, and for example today it was 30 mins. its all hit and miss really. I have noticed in the past few weeks though hes been going to sleep later in the day (which I thought was why he wasn't settling so well in the evening)

Well im flummoxed and desperate for ideas. Hes not unhappy, hes quite ok singing and dancing to himself in his cot- but I cant go anywhere near upstairs- because he will start to scream and want to come out- and I know when DP gets home soon he will
1.) tell me im cruel for leaving him there
2.) go and get him and put thomas tank on (cos ive been cruel) therefore making it worse.

HELP! I dont mind 9pm asleep as I know he sleeps till 8am- but this is getting rediculous- its getting to the point that im tucked up in bed asleep while hes still awake!

any ideas?

Nova x

After reading this string, hoping you guys can give me some advice too!
Shortly after moving DS from cot to bed at about 22 months (he kept climbing out of the cot!) he stopped/refused to have a daytime nap. As a result, he's completely knackered by 5-6pm. Trouble is, if i put him to bed at 6-6.30pm, he's awake REALLY early (5.30am ish) (sad)
Have tried moving bedtime to about 7pm in the hope that he'll sleep until 7am ish, but no such luck - he's still up between 5.30 and 6.30pm! (He's now just turned 2).
I've now started going to bed earlier in case it's a 5.30am start, but am finding I'm not getting much of an evening by the time I've put DS to bed, made dinner, cleared up etc.
HELP!!

Ooohhh! HATE having grown up evening time infront of crap telly interrupted. My sister's youngest (soon to be middle) ds was getting up around that time and going to bed early. Not sure if still the same. Do you have blackout blinds?

Yes, have a blackout roman blind and curtains with blackout lining. Have also velcro'd the curtains to the window frame! The curtains do let in a little bit of light, but not a huge amount. Could add a backout roller blind inside the window I suppose. Do you think it could be the light??

Don't know - sounds like you're pretty well tooled up re: blackout. Take heart - one woman i know had dd who woke at 4.30 every morning. She put a tV in child's room and put videos on for her and went back to bed for an hour or so before dd (3 yrs) woke her ds (5) and the morning HAD to begin. Would not advocate TV in room though - Ever!

hi nova. why dont you try waking him up earlier and then he might be tired at bedtime.

Nova, I think one of the main problems here is that your DS has now been conditioned to resist sleep as he knows that usually he will get taken out of his cot by your DP and given treats (Magazine, TV, etc)

They key here as you know already I'm sure, is to talk to him and make a plan between you, and stick to it!

Fwiw, my plan would be:

drop daytime nap altogether
move DS' bedtime a little bit earlier each evening, so that he is eventually aiming for a more normal bedtime.
Once he is in his cot, he STAYS there! It might well result in ructions at first, but as someone said, kids learn quickly. It's your DP I'm worried about, he might take a little longer!!!!!

I also have had 2 children that haven't slept and still don't sleep well. I always found that if they managed to sleep well in the day they tended to sleep better at night, but dd2 sometimes sleeps for half an hour in the day sometimes I have to wake her after 2 hours. I am much less strict with how and when she sleeps in the day as I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference to her sleep patterns at night.

Dd1 did listen to CD's at night and still does at 4, fine now but when she was younger she didn't get it that if we went away she couldn't have her CD at night, could cause problems. I also held off a dummy for dd2 but at 1 1/2 I gave in thinking it would help her sleep, it hasn't!!

So the moral of the story is I wish I had the answer, just learn your childs patterns and go with them, this will sometimes mean you can't take them with you to that house party and just put them to bed later, this NEVER works for me (much to my partners horror) all it does is stress me out that I am not having a good time and the kids won't sleep later if anything they get up earlier in the morning and sleep worse at night.

Dd1 did finally start sleeping through the night, properly at 3 although still often wakes once in the night. dd2 is nearly 2 and still a bad sleeper. One thing for sure just as you are getting used to their sleep patterns they will change them!

good luck and if you find the answer let me know!

I just thought of something else. I have a friend whose children are much older now but she still hasn't got used to sleeping through the night. She attended a sleep clinic who told her to stay up till midnight and get up at 5.30am every day for a week hopefully to exhaust her back into a sleep pattern. May be worth a try not quite so extreme hours but perhaps try keeping him up a couple of hours later and getting him up a couple of hours earlier (if you can bear it) and cut sleep in the day to a minimum.

I also have had 2 children that haven't slept and still don't sleep well. I always found that if they managed to sleep well in the day they tended to sleep better at night, but dd2 sometimes sleeps for half an hour in the day sometimes I have to wake her after 2 hours. I am much less strict with how and when she sleeps in the day as I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference to her sleep patterns at night.

Dd1 did listen to CD's at night and still does at 4, fine now but when she was younger she didn't get it that if we went away she couldn't have her CD at night, could cause problems. I also held off a dummy for dd2 but at 1 1/2 I gave in thinking it would help her sleep, it hasn't!!

So the moral of the story is I wish I had the answer, just learn your childs patterns and go with them, this will sometimes mean you can't take them with you to that house party and just put them to bed later, this NEVER works for me (much to my partners horror) all it does is stress me out that I am not having a good time and the kids won't sleep later if anything they get up earlier in the morning and sleep worse at night.

Dd1 did finally start sleeping through the night, properly at 3 although still often wakes once in the night. dd2 is nearly 2 and still a bad sleeper. One thing for sure just as you are getting used to their sleep patterns they will change them!

good luck and if you find the answer let me know!

I also have had 2 children that haven't slept and still don't sleep well. I always found that if they managed to sleep well in the day they tended to sleep better at night, but dd2 sometimes sleeps for half an hour in the day sometimes I have to wake her after 2 hours. I am much less strict with how and when she sleeps in the day as I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference to her sleep patterns at night.

Dd1 did listen to CD's at night and still does at 4, fine now but when she was younger she didn't get it that if we went away she couldn't have her CD at night, could cause problems. I also held off a dummy for dd2 but at 1 1/2 I gave in thinking it would help her sleep, it hasn't!!

So the moral of the story is I wish I had the answer, just learn your childs patterns and go with them, this will sometimes mean you can't take them with you to that house party and just put them to bed later, this NEVER works for me (much to my partners horror) all it does is stress me out that I am not having a good time and the kids won't sleep later if anything they get up earlier in the morning and sleep worse at night.

Dd1 did finally start sleeping through the night, properly at 3 although still often wakes once in the night. dd2 is nearly 2 and still a bad sleeper. One thing for sure just as you are getting used to their sleep patterns they will change them!

good luck and if you find the answer let me know!

Calcium - we take a cd walkman & speakers with us where ever we go!

dd1 would find it hard to get to sleep if had napped during day - makes no difference with dd2 and dd3.

Wow guys what a response, thankyou all! Ive had a quick skim of them, but have just finished a weekend of 2 12 hour shifts and my eyes, brain and body is boggled!
Just ot let you know im not ignoring you all, will write a better response when I can think straight!
Ds in bed playing atm, but hes not hyper and has 3 hours excersize this aft in the time machine (soft play) so fingers crossed!

How did he sleep last night Nova?

He was asleep about half past ten last night- this was after geting up at 0730hrs and only having a half hour nap.- so I dont think its the amount of sleep/activity thats the problem, because he hardly had any and he was at a soft play all afternoon- I think the poster that posted about the routine thing has hit the nail on the head- a stricter sleep routine needs to be adopted and once he is in bed he stays in bed (which incedently I and DP always did up until recently when DP started to get him up when he was poorly)
We bought him some new thomas board books tonight from matalan (only £1.25 each bargain) , and have read him a couple before bed, so I think we are going to keep them for bedtime books (before we read ones we read during the day aswell), and he is stuffed from a pizza hut tea. At present he is in bed, but as usual not asleep but hes perfectly happy, talking to his fifi and bumble, and DP is under strict instructions to leave him!

Nova x

Ah bless him At least he doesn't wake up several times during the night.

well hes finally asleep, just after an almighty screaming session. I ended up going in and reading him his fave book a few times to get him to calm down, sit down and eventually lie down!
I know it sound like a farce but i am happy with that, it was easy really and DP DIDNT get him out of his cot. definately a tiny step forward even though he wa screaming for a bit. in realistic enough to understand its going to take ages, so any step forward im more than happy with. DP has gone to tesco to buy chocolate pud- i think i deserve it!

BTW, did you see we made the front page today??? I'm dead impressed!

Novaxx

Well done Nova and your DP! - you've definitely taken the first steps to sorting it out. I bet it won't take as long as you think to sort out. Once DS learns that as soon as he's in bed, he's staying there, he'll work it out. I wonder if the screaming was because he's worked it out already, and was just letting you know he's ....ed off about it...!!

Good luck tonight...

Good luck tonight Nova! Glad to hear you are making progress. If its any consolation, my dd1 used to get more and more hyper the more tired she was. Shame she's not still like that - just get pre-teenage sulks now.

Well done Nova. Sounds like progress. Sleep training can be one step forward, two back at the beginning but eventually it will pay off.

Hiya everyone,

Well we took several steps last night!

up @ 0730hrs, only half an hour sleep in buggy and out and about all day with his little best mate, so lots of activity and goings on.

he asked to go to bed about 8pm after the bath routine (so he obviously knows whats coming next), sat up and read with him for a while. 10pm comes round and hes still awake and starting to whine. DP goes in and reads some more and sorts him out.

falls asleep at 10.30 and Mummy has HUGE glass of wine.

We have had to get rid of his bottle unexpectedly (teat ripped) and he isnt drinking milk ATM (see thread on parenting), so I can see it all going T*ts up, I know he was waiting for his bottle last night (although I did offer milk in a cup zillions of times) I'm now worried that were trying to tackle two things instead of one, albeit the bottle thing was unexpected, and im tempted to go out and but another bottle.

Will update more later!

Nova xx

several steps BACK i mean! lol

Oh dear. I'd just go and get another bottle teat if I were you - like you say, tackle one issue at a time, and the sleep one is more important to your sanity than a bottle.

Sounds like he's beginning to understand the routine, and it's great DP didn't get out Thomas video. We always tell DS how many stories he's going to get at bedtime (usually 2), and then stick to it however much he whines for another - he's given up now, and doesn't ask for more anymore.

Do you think DS is going to play ball, or do you think he'll now start staying awake for a further story to be read to him. You might need to get nasty and strict... which he won't like... But if you don't go back in when he whines (presume he didn't get to screaming and yelling stage last night), he will learn pretty quickly that there's no point staying awake in the hope of another story.

you might have to go through the screaming and yelling before you've cracked it. Did this with DS a few weeks ago (kept getting out of bed and playing the 'put me back in' game with us) - it only took 2 nights of screaming in anger (45 mins and then 10 the next night before climbing back in on his own). could tell he wasn't in pain as the moment he heard us coming up the stairs, it stopped.