Misery loves company: anyone want to join me on a support thread for those desperate and demoralised by their 8/9/10 mo sleep?

[Suchanamateur]

Bloody sleep regression. It's like 4 months all over again but worse because it felt (briefly) like we were getting somewhere. Feck. Anyone else want to share tales of woe or is it (a) just me or (b) way too depressing to post about..?

That's what I'm counting on, Such as DD will only be 20 months.

Elph did he sleep better after that?

Nuh. Every two hours as usual.

Curses!

Well, get this... DH slept with her last night because I was DYING and really needed some sleep.

She woke up twice, was easily comforted with a dummy and went back to sleep pretty much straight away! WTF?

Sounds like maybe dh should sleep with her more often!

Lucky you, Poppy! See, my DH would dearly love to co-sleep with DS and help settle him. Judging by DS's response when we've tried this, however, you could be forgiven for thinking DH is alternately holding red hot pokers and barbed wire against his skin. Equals - zero sleep for anybody

Envy Poppy. Mine and Elphaba's DC have much in common.

At family party today. DBIL pronounced himself desperate for coffe because his DS woke at 6am. I stuck a fork in his eye

Well, there's hope for you all then, because up until yesterday that used to be the case for us - she would scream blue murder if DH tried to settle her at night.

I went to the spare room dreading waking up in the middle of the night to her hysteric wailing, but lo and behold she was fine!

This means I can have some nights off

Well, last night she woke up, screamed, refused to nurse, and generally made a right fuss. Tried everything until we ended up feeding her shreddies and grapes at 2am which seemed to calm her down. Still took another hour and a half for her to go back to sleep though. This, I suspect, is the down side to her sudden reduction in feeding. Now if she gets hungry in the night or feels poorly I can't just whip out a boob and instead have to get out of bed to get some food. Outrage!

She seemed fine this morning but then got the most dreaded call from nursery saying she had a fever and she is now curled up on DP's lap fast asleep looking very sorry for herself. Not expecting a happy night tonight. :(

Rock. Hard

Fucking MN App! That could be so misinterpreted!

Let me try again...

DH is getting insistent that we try sleep training again over the upcoming bank holiday. I don't want to collapse from exhaustion, which I feel permanently on the brink of all of the time, but I don't want to put me and DS through something awful that might not work yet again.

Rock. Hard place.

Thanks, MN App, you piece of shit, that only took six attempts

"Rock. Hard"

Are things heating up at Casa-Elph?

Oh poppy & elph, I'm actually laughing properly, marvellous

So, poppy, finally I have good news for you. My DD, now 2 yr 8 months, was terrible, up every 90 minutes if not more til 3 months, then into her own room, and slept through after 1 week in there. I honestly thoguth it was our amazing bedtime routine, good pattern of naps (though all had in a sling) general parenting skills. She started sleeping dreadfully when I was pg with the twins, dreadfully. A typical night, it'd take 2-3 hours to get her to bed, sitting on the landing, gradual retreat etc etc. Then she'd wake at say midnight and it could take til 5 am to get her to sleep again. Twins home, slept through after 2 days. She clearly was unsettled by my pregnancy,and was too little to show it in any other way, than extreme separation anxiety and not sleeping.

crap, screaming worse with dh

back later, maybe...
reflux it is, vomiting better, sleep UNCHANGED, FFS.

Oh, and needles, was it you who asked? I've 3 under 3, dd 2.8, dts 13.5 months. One wakes once usually, sometimes more, and The Were-Baby, DT1...

elph, my dh talking cc sleep training too. We've not tried it, but it will definitely wake DT2 up, he sometimes wakes him anyway and we really try to keep him quiet, and may wake dd up, depends what time of night it is...

such, or should I call you amateur? anyone who says things like we've all been there, when you know full well they've had a decent sleeper, incite me to near commiting GBH levels of fury.

I'll have to stop now, heavy, snotty, coughing dt1 is rocked into submission on one arm so i can mn on my phone with the other, but despite being able to lug two 13 month olds around I can't keep this position up any longer

Well, once again DS has sensed plots against him and his dastardly, non-sleeping ways and come down with another snotting, coughing, feverish cold right on the day where, near to sobbing from exhaustion, I resigned myself once more to sleep training and we were poised to re-visit gradual withdrawal. Part of me is quietly relieved, part of me wants to scream, but I really haven't got the energy. Fuck, this is torture.

elph snap. Except I have indulged in some sobbing. With my three there isn't a minutes 'down time' in the day either. I just can't carry on like this. It's fucking torture, you're right.

I feel like a total failure. The other day i cried as dd slept with one waking which dh dealt with til 9am (she was knackered!), DT2 slept til 8:30 (also knackered) in his own cot, one brief, 20 min max, waking and bf in the night. DT1 was up about 10 times, no joke. I am so frustrated. It's not fair on the other two that I'm so exhausted and grumpy in the day, and I'd be having so much sleep if i just had those two. And isn't that a dreadful thing to say....

Oh, and not getting up between 4:30 and 5:30 am. Seriously. That's not the bloody fucking morning!!!!!! Imagine, I'd have been in bed til 8:30 the other morning

Does anyone think a sleep consultant type thing could help?! Has anyone tried?

I've read the books of a couple of sleep consultants (the Millpond one and the Andrea Grace one) and read threads on here from people who have used various sleep clinics including those two. They all seem to follow exactly the same formula:

• do a sleep diary for a week, or a no-sleep diary as the case may be, to recognise any patterns (like you're not already painfully, painfully aware of how shit your life is - you get to commit it to paper as well and read about it)
• establish a bedtime routine that does not include feeding to sleep
• decide whether you want to do CC or gradual withdrawal
• commence

The money is mainly for the moral support, I understand.

A friend of mine in Sweden went to see a sleep specialist there for her awake-umpteen-times-a-night DD - same idea there, I believe. She went to only one appointment, however, as this 'expert' told her that the 'sleep problems' her DD had were all of my friend's making due to her decisions to BF, co-sleep and do BLW. Didn't go down well.

In summary, I wouldn't bother as I don't think they'd come up with anything I don't already know, but maybe they'd be able to give you more detailed advice as to how to manage it all with three DCs, Dreaming? I think they usually do 'package deal' prices for two or more sproglets. Maybe read something like the Millpond book ('Teach Your Child to Sleep' ha!) before shelling out anything in case you feel the same way I do. Maybe we can PayPal you a fiver by way of donation if you slip us tips here

I have moved from feeding to sleep at bedtime to jiggling and rocking to sleep. Do this mean I'm halfway there?! Thanks for the info elph. My biggest fear is throwing out the other two's sleep. I was so fed up I left DT1 for about 3 minutes last night. He doesn't whinge, or cry a bit, he screams. All it got me was a vomited in cot to change and a woken-up DT2 who I had to feed to get him to resettle. As he won't even lie down, even if I lie down by him in his cot, I can't see how either method will work for me atm, but as DT2 has only recently started sleeping well I do NOT want to rock that boat....

Rock. Hard place. I love the challenges of three small children.

How's minielph's feverish illness? Hope he's picking up. These things are enough to tip you over the edge.

Unwell Rigors earlier and keeps spiking horrible temps (just recorded 39.8) despite alternating doses of paracetamol and ibuprofen. He could probably stay cooler if he was in his cot but he's fretful and clingy so I've got him next to me on the bed. Also, if he does something silly like a febrile seizure I want to know about it

Poor minielph! I do hope he feels better soon.

I have thought this idea that not feeding to sleep will somehow solve all sleep problems is bollocks to be honest. Ditto the night weaning thing. It certainly has proved to be a big stinky pile of bollocks for dd anyway.

She now often won't feed to sleep at bedtime and generally has one feed in the night at most (around 4am). It has not made a jot of difference to her sleep. She is still waking all the time but now I can't just stick a boob in her mouth to get her back to sleep.

Its not fair! I really though that when she dropped the night feeds she would start sleeping through, or at least close to it. Now what am I supposed to hope for :(

Much improved here, thank goodness. Unfortunately, I've got to act sociable tomorrow with an old friend of my mother's who is visiting from abroad. I've felt absolutely at the end of my rope for the past few days so, to use a great Mumsnetism, I'd rather shit in my hands and clap than be the merry hostess tomorrow, but there we go.

To lighten the mood a little, what would you do (apart from sleep more) if the DCs finally started keeping more sociable hours? I would:

• Exercise once DS was down for his 12 uninterrupted hours. I loved keeping fit, pre-baby. Loved it. Dance, gym, cross-training, aerobics. I tried exercising in my lunch break for a bit at work, but I'm so sleep-depleted it nearly finished me
• Stop eating carb-loaded, sugar filled crap from sun up til sun down to keep me going.
• Cut down my caffeine intake (that one's least likely to happen, truth be told)
• Watch that box set of Breaking Bad that's been sitting in the living room unopened since DH's birthday in March Hell, even a 10 minute infomercial would count for more TV than I've watched since being back at work...

Oh! And (think big, Elph, think big) ask the ILs around to sit with blissfully sleeping DS while DH and I go out for one of those 'dinner-and-movie' arrangements we once did.

Gee, I wish we could see Star Trek ...

Hello everyone

Dreaming I'm posting you a medal and some cake; I can't imagine going through this with three DC waking up alternately.

Hear you are absolutely right, we finally managed to night wean by absolute fluke and it made no difference whatsoever. It just took away my trusted kryptonite to get DD to sleep. In fact, she's taken to waking up at 2am and staying awake for up to 3 hours!!! *(&%(@#$(^&#%!!!

Elph your post made me smile and almost cry at the same time; I smiled because your list sounds very familiar and almost cried because it just feels like a pipe dream at the moment.

Sorry to bring the thread down, but I'm so exhausted I just feel crap. I think the night weaning gave me hope and now I need to go back to my state of acceptance as it makes me feel better.

In other words, ride the mofo...