Sleep help/routine/training for 12 week old baby!

[manuka1]

Hi, I've only posted once before, I'm not very regularly online, particularly since having my baby!
I have a 12 week old baby boy who just won't nap during the day. He'll fall asleep if I feed him lying down in bed but as soon as I move he wakes and cries again. He'll nod off briefly in the pram (but only if we're walking somewhere quiet, if theres noise he just wont sleep in his pram either) but as soon as I stop or go inside he wakes and cries! He won't feed properly when I'm out, he pretty much refuses to feed if we're out. I have to find a very quiet spot otherwise he just fusses and cries. This usually means he screams the whole time we're out because he's hungry and over tired.
Nights are better, he will go to sleep but he's not very consistent. One night he could wake just twice but most other nights it 4 plus. Again, at night i have to feed him lying down to get him to go to sleep, I can transfer him then to his crib but if he wakes between 4.30am and 7am he ends up sleeping in our bed because he won't be moved! He sleeps in a crib beside our bed. We can't move him in to his own room as we have 2 children in a two bed house and it would be fair for my daughter to have to share with him while he's like this.
I'm desperate for some help as I'm going nuts with this! I can't do anything, go anywhere without it being hugely stressful because he's so grumpy and won't settle! I feel confined to the house and our small local area as if i try to do anything different he just cries, wont feed and wont sleep and its stressful for everyone. Also, I have my 6 year old daughter off school for 6 weeks and this can't go on as I can't do anything with her or for her when he is so demanding. She's been very good this week but she's pretty much had to entertain herself for the most part while I try to sort him out. This can't go on but I just don't know what to do. I've tried everything I can think of, feeding, leaving him to cry, taking him out, not taking him out.
If anyone can help, advice, routines that have worked for them etc I would really appreciate it. I just need some help, I'm desperate and don't want this school holiday to be completely rubbish for my daughter (and me!).

I should add that when he does nap in the day he will only sleep about 20 mins max and if I move from the bed or stop pushing the pram or go indoors he wakes almost immediately. So from about lunchtime I have a pretty knackered and grumpy baby (and mum!). My daughter was nothing like this and slept really well from quite early on so I have no experience to draw from of my own, so I'm hoping there's some mumsnet mums out there who can share their experiences and successes with me!!

Is he any better in a sling?

I'm afraid I don't have any other better advice. It seems to me that some babies just need more security than others. DD (14 months old now) will only nap during the day if I stay in bed with her (although I am so exhausted from her night time wakings that I am grateful for an hour during the day!).

Unfortunately not. He hates even being put in a sling, he just screams and kicks. I wouldn't mind staying with him to sleep during the day except I have a 6 year old just being left to her own devices. She's pretty good but I just don't want to be leaving her on her own every time he needs a nap or a feed. He won't even feed in a noisy room so I have to retreat upstairs to my room with him. I can't do anything with my daughter, cook or even get a drink without him starting crying, he's just so over tired and grumpy and probably the heat isn't helping at the moment!

Hmm, the sling was my one bright idea. No chance he likes a rocking chair or similar?

I know you said he doesn't like noise, but have you tried white noise to help him 'zone out', like the hoover, radio static or the tap running? Also using a sheepskin fleece for him to lie on, and waiting 20mins before leaving so he's in deep sleep.

Has he always fussed when feeding? Have you ruled out possible causes, such as fast let down or reflux (if there are other symptoms) etc? Also, you may find he suddenly settles in the next week if it's a 12 wk development thing he's going through, my DD did although she still refuses to nap longer than 30 mina and is fussy about where she sleeps.

I'm clutching at straws here, in the hope something works for you!

My DS used to nap for only 20mins at that age, no matter what I did. I remember one time I started trying to get him to sleep from 11am all the way til 6.15pm when I gave him his bath and put him to bed and he fell asleep straight away. I even remember looking in to wake to sleep but I chickened out! Unfortunately all I could do was wait til he outgrew it and try to distract him when he was overtired. He's currently my only child so much easier for me but perhaps your daughter could help with distracting him sometimes by playing a few games like who can get him to smile/laugh or making up a story to tell him?

Anyway, good luck and hope someone comes along soon who can help.

What kind of sling? How long have you tried? When DS or DD were massively tired or hungry, they'd go mad in the sling, so I made sure they were well fed, gave a dummy and got walking. They'd be asleep in ten minutes once we got moving.

If at home, I'd go in a dark room, stick on white noise and rock to sleep (or stick on some music with a beat). Took ten minutes. Felt like longer at times!

In terms of routines, I'd try and put baby down for a nap after an hour of waking for the morning then after 90 mins for subsequent naps. The awake times rapidly got longer as they got older. I also had the same problems with feeding so would aim to be home at least part of the day.

Just to check though - when you say he refuses to feed, is he looking about? Or does he get upset feeding? Is it a recent thing? Can you get him a feeding cover?

Same here, I get protests when I first put DS in the sling but he is just protesting because he is tired, and unless he is still hungry, he will usually settle to sleep by the time I have taken a walk to the local shop and back.

Mine used to do the same with a sling, but walking never solved the problem, only having her facing outwards (about 12 weeks I think, but o know this is early judging by baby friends). But this may not work if you DS doesn't like noise.

Thanks for everyone's replies. We've had another hard day of no sleep and currently have a very cross baby in his pram. So I'm taking a couple of minutes to read replies and try to respond!
Slings don't really work for us, mainly because he doesn't like it but also I still probably would not get what I need with that which is time to cook and give my daughter some time as well if he's permanently attached to me, he's quite a lump!
PickledLily - we've tried white noise, sometimes it works sometimes not. It seems with this baby what works once or twice doesn't always work the next time. He seems to clock I'm trying to get him to do something so increases his resistance! Is the sheepskin for comfort? I think the fussy feeding is just him wanting things his way to be honest, he will resist feeding with me sitting up but loves it and would be happy to feed all day if we're lying down on my bed! However, that doesn't work when you have more than one child! I cant just disappear fr an hour at a time everytime he needs a feed, and also can't do that when we're out!
Mar2010 - Yes my daughter is pretty good at trying to distract him, she plays with his legs and talks to him which is lovely but only works for so long.
Iggly - we've tried various carriers/slings but he's just so wriggly and gets frustrated, he kicks and tries to 'stand up' if his legs are in and just cross and uncomfortable when his legs are out, i think he doesn't like his legs spread out very much as he just cries. The routine you mentioned sounds like what I have been trying to do, he seems tired after about an hour to hour and a half, but he just fights sleep. The fussing when feeding has gone on for a long time, not always, but I cant really remember when it started. He just will arch his back and scream if I try to feed him sitting up. I don't know why, not a fast letdown or anything, I'm pretty sure of that. I'm not sure how much a feeding cover would work in public as I've never tried one, wasn't required with my daughter as she just did what she was supposed to do! Haha! I think I was spoilt with her! I think anything less than a 4 man tent over me will result in full boob exposure when trying to feed him in public!
My mother-in-law says he's training me not me training him at the moment and she's so right. It's just I don't really know how to put things back on track, he's pretty stubborn and strong-willed!
Thanks so much for everyone's responses, I will persevere with it and see where we end up! Having left him in the pram, going back to rock back and forth a few times, he's finally dozed off. Hoping he sleeps a little while!

I only ask about his fussing because I wonder if he's got reflux or an intolerance to something via your BM (mine were like this and fought sleep and feeding because they were uncomfy). Silly question but how do you know you don't have a fast letdown? I found mine got worse with DC2... It might be why he likes to feed lying down...

I use the Gina Ford routine for my 14 week old. On the days we don't use it for whatever reason, I have a very grumpy baby who won't sleep and like yours, wakes every 20 minutes unless I'm with him.

Here's our ideal nap day
7am -wake up
9am - down for a nap : sometimes down by 8.45 if he woke earlier than 7am
9.30am - wake up
12pm - down for a nap : again may go down a bit sooner, maybe 11:30am if he's making signs like he's tired. Usually wakes up after one sleep cycle (about 30 minutes) - I go straight in at the first noise, dummy back in, lullaby songs/white noise on, and leave.
2pm - wake up. I don't let him sleep past 2pm.
4pm ish - go out for a walk with the buggy, he'll fall asleep.
5pm - wake up - I don't let him sleep past 5pm.
As soon as he's awake at 5pm, I begin bedtime routine (bath/massage/whatever your bedtime routine is). Dressed (including gro-bag) and well fed by 6.30pm. 30 minutes spent chilling out and maybe feeding in his room, lights out, music on. In bed by 7pm. He'll normally wake again within about 20 minutes. Again, straight back in at first noise, dummy in, lullabys back on, out! I don't think I spend longer than 5 seconds in there!
11pm - dreamfeed lasting 30 minutes

If he keeps waking past 7pm, he's normally windy and needs to burp. Then once he's had a dream feed at 11pm, he'll wake around 4am (but he's woken at exactly 4.10am the last 5 days!) feed, and then I'll put him back in his cot if he'll do it. If he needs picked up more than 3 times when I'm trying to get him back into his cot, I'll just bring him into bed with me instead, and we'll bed-share until morning.

I know that it'll be so much harder for you because you have a little girl as well to entertain.

LO sleeps on a sheepskin (snuggle rug), and has done since birth. He wears a vest and a gro-bag with long arms to bed, sometimes with a blanket wrapped round too if it's cold. Usually, as soon as he is in his gro-bag he's already falling asleep. I think he associates it with sleep.

Also...I BF on demand while he's awake (Gina Ford has strict feeding times, but that really does work for us!), and he also gets a bottle every other day or so, just so he's used to taking a bottle.

And, this routine does not work every day! But I do try to stick by the 'do not sleep past 2pm and 5pm' rules, plus I try not to let him sleep more than 3.5 hours during 7am-7pm. Some days he wakes at 3am and refuses to go back to sleep. Some days he sleeps from 11pm till 8am! I just try to stick with it as much as possible.

Just to say I know exactly how you feel! DD used to be pretty good at her nighttime sleep and slept through on a couple of occasions, but now, at 12 weeks, she has no real nap routine (not for want of trying. I have read Gina Ford but my baby, it seems, has not...) and is fighting sleep in the evenings and waking every couple of hours at night. We have had a pretty consistent bedtime routine since she was about 4 weeks old.

It's quite possibly a developmental thing - I think this is the age where they start consolidating their naps, but if anyone has any ideas about how to help the process along, I'd be equally grateful to hear them!

Sorry, not very helpful, I know, but rest assured that you are not alone!

Hi again, and thanks again for replies and advice, it's been really useful to hear about what has worked for other people, and to know I'm not alone!
Well since Friday my little boy has been a completely different child, I'm slightly worried about jinxing it now!
On Friday night, when I put him down I decided I would stop the lying down feeds altogether, he protested as usual but I've stuck with it and he's pretty much stopped fussing! Massive improvement! No more screaming, backarching and head shaking when I feed him sitting up, he just latches on and gets on with it for the most part! Also, since I started this over the weekend, I have put him down for naps in the pram, he's not going upstairs to sleep anymore, so I can be downstairs where my daughter is. He's actually staying asleep for short periods 30-40mins ish, which is a miracle and something to build on. Seriously, he hasn't slept so well in the day since he was about 2 or 3 weeks old. Hopefully, as he gets used to this he may start to sleep for longer. Iggly - I'm sort of working on your timings, 1 hour after wake up, then every 1.5 hours, it seems to fit with when he appears tired.
I'm sure there will be more ups and downs and it's not perfect yet, but everything seems to be moving in the right direction.
Thanks everyone!

Please tell me when and how it got better? My 12 week son has been refusing naps since he was 5 weeks and I'm really loosing it!