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What worked for us. Hope this helps.

870 replies

nectarina · 29/01/2012 21:03

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

OP posts:
nectarina · 05/03/2012 15:28

tootired in order to end night wakings I think you have to nightwean. I can understand you being too tired to stay by the side of the cot for an hour in the middle of the night so I suggest that you dilute the bottle with water a bit more every night until its just water. Your DS is hungry in the night, but only because he's used to feeding then. I think this has worked for babies taking bottles.
I would suggest treating each night waking separately - instead of always bringing him into bed with you automatically, see if he'll go to sleep in his cot first. Keep your objectives in mind, even if you revert to old ways.

mjtay that is good news, hope your DH cheers up too.
I would suggest not worrying about colic for the next week and see if spacing makes any difference - I've got a feeling that its an old wives' tale about spacing feeding to avoid colic.

pipoca sounds like its going well for you too. I wonder if we were imagining all kinds of illnesses on DD which were in fact due to overtiredness.

oovoof about the dummy - if dummy falling out is waking up your DS, I would suggest getting rid once he's got the hang of going to sleep by himself - so as soon as possible really. Its too violent for the first night, but a few nights later and it could work.
He'll be in the swing of learning this new technique, so now is a good time to do it. I don't think having a dummy interferes with the plan, but he'll be better off without it. (we introduced a dummy to DD at 3 months, which made a slight improvement to things, but then she rejected it of her own accord 3 months later much to my annoyance - so I haven't got any experience of trying to wean off dummies at this age. Saying that, life is a lot easier without it.)
If you do try this, could you post about it please, because I think there are a lot of other parents asking the same thing?

OP posts:
Mjtay · 05/03/2012 20:23

Pinbeak I would say a cold definitely interferes. Yest morn the everything up the creek when DD would settle back into her cot. She was crying full pelt but wasn't hungry. She was poorly with her cold. Took her to our bed and everytime she dozed, she woke crying when the snot blocked her nose again :( rocked off to sleep for all naps. Then down awake at bedtime, off in 10 mins then went thro the nite. Tonite she's been half hour but that was partly me wobdering if wind was unsettling her so sat her up although the was dopey!

Got a feeling it was a one off, but I'll let u know tomorrow!! I agree that it prob is a good time to consider taking the dummy away, once a little more settled into the routine.

I couldnt recommend this technique enough. I wasn't worried about feeding/comforting in the nite. Going thro wasn't something I was longing for, and although I secretly love the cuddles and rocking her off, I knew I had to nip it in the bud while she's still quite small, and can't stand In her cot crying mummy!!
Xx

Mjtay · 05/03/2012 20:24

Sorry for typos. Stupid iPhone. Hope it makes sense!! Xx

OovoofWelcome · 05/03/2012 21:08

Thanks nectarina, I will update everyone on the thread if we can muster up the courage to remove the dummy. At the moment it's a great way to settle him: occasionally it's as simple as replacing it for him and he glides back to sleep easily...am really nervous about removing the one thing that kind of works!

He is so wakeful though. When he wakes in the night without his dummy he doesn't have a strategy of his own to help him resettle.

May try the old Elizabeth Pantley method and gradually remove the dummy just before he succumbs to slumber, once he's a bit more used to his cot.

I do miss being snuggled up to him (we coslept) but this method is the way forward, it enables our babies to sleep alone whilst feeling consistently reassured Smile So thanks again nectarina, an amazing alternative to CC.

OovoofWelcome · 06/03/2012 08:50

Oh my god. I have to update - DS only woke THREE times last night!

Bed at 6.45pm, settled quickly with his dummy at half eight, breastfeed at 10pm with me (30 mins to settle), bottle with DH at 2.45am (an hour to settle) - and that was it! I woke him this morning Shock

Hope it's not a fluke....this method is brilliant Grin

cmm · 06/03/2012 09:40

That's fantastic!!!! I too am in awe at how his method has helped us!!!! We are night 16 and went down at 730 fed at 1145 the. 545 and then up at 745! And thats not the best night we've had! Thanks again nextarina x

Mjtay · 06/03/2012 11:45

Okay!!!!.... So night 5 and she slept thro again!! I woke and checked on her at 1.30 and heard Nowt till 7.30!! Amazing!!! Thank u nectarina!! So pleased for all of u. So nice that other ppl are trying the same, and also getting results. Can't be fluke!! Xxx

nectarina · 06/03/2012 12:52

Wow, that's really great.
I'm feeling a bit confused as I feel so sleepy all the time, now that DD is sleeping through. I was less tired when I was coping on 4 hours, am I catching up or what? I expected to feel full of energy, and instead I just feel tired with no motivation whatsoever.

OP posts:
cmm · 06/03/2012 13:39

I absolutely agree! Think it's that you don't sleep as well as you know you're up so much and then when you're not you relax into a better sleep! That's my theory anyway!! I often seek really tired too! X

BenderBendingRodriguez · 06/03/2012 13:43

I think overtiredness can lead to a kind of wired feeling, a bit like a caffeine buzz. Then when you get back to good sleeping, you have an energy crash.

We have lapsed the last two nights and taken her into our bed Blush It's so cold in our bedroom, plus she's teething, and there is a little bit of me that's thinking 'she's so young, a little bit longer of cuddles and closeness can't hurt'. Will probably try again at some point soon; the technique is definitely working, in that she's much better at self-settling and seems to be sleeping a bit better generally :)

pipoca · 06/03/2012 16:09

still working for us here (she woke twice last night at around 1am and 5am but was patted and shhed back to sleep within 10 mins each time, no picking up or feeding). Have decided to go the whole hog and do naps too and she's slet 1.5 hrs in her cot this morning (a world record!!) and is now 1hr 10 mins into an afternoon nap in her cot. Both times took less than 10 mins of pattig to get her to sleep.
I really feel like a new woman, like I've got my life back. It's fantastic, I can't tell you how glad I am I read this thread and took this step.
Stick with it ladies, it is so worth it.

Mjtay · 06/03/2012 20:29

Ah well done pipoca!! I have been making my DD take herself off fir naps since starting this. They are just never in get cot. Rocked her off twice in 5 days! Not bad going!! I fight even get a whimper out of her tonite! She was deep asleep by 15 mins. Sure she wouldnt of noticed if I wasnt there!!
I know what u mean nectarina!! I'm like that too. Don't feel any different! Think ur body just copes, cos were designed to do so. Bet ud know about if hourly wakes suddenly started!! Eek xxx

Mjtay · 06/03/2012 20:30

So sorry stupid phone again. 'didn't' even get a whimper xx

rrreow · 07/03/2012 10:06

Thanks for this! We tried something similar around 6 months which worked fairly well, but DH is terrible with being woken up at night (it really triggers emotional stuff from his past for him), so I got back into the habit of putting DS on the boob as soon as he wakes up so as not to disturb DH.

Now DS is 10 months and although he doesn't wake up & feed as many times as he used to (from 7 times down to 2), he still needs lots of comforting and coaxing back to sleep. Although he starts off in his cot most of the time (and I've tried not feeding to sleep anymore), he will often wake up after a few hours and not go back to sleep without boob / co-sleeping. In the short run I don't mind all this, but in the long run I'd really like him to self settle. He's in our room at the moment, but we are planning a DC2 at some point and would like DS to be in his own room well before then so as not to have difficult changes happening at the same time for him (and us).

Anyway, so we need to try and tackle this once again (and will have to also deal with DH's sleep/waking up difficulties.. eek) and I found it SO helpful to read from some of the comments that some of your DCs also cry cry cry when they wake up and won't be settled apart from with breastmilk. That makes me feel so much better as now I know that's just normal and something we can get through by getting him used to being patted/talked to for comfort.

Is it weird to say I'm actually kind of excited to try this again now?!

OovoofWelcome · 07/03/2012 10:28

So inspired to read of your successes, Mjtay, pipoca and everyone!

nectarina I guess our bodies adapt to the lack of sleep, and then need a bit of time to get accustomed to a more normal amount again?

We had a mixed night. DS woke every hour (settled with dummy) until a feed at 10.30pm - after which he refused to let me put him down, and screamed and cried furiously each time I attempted it :-( After about an hour and a half of trying - feeding a little more, trying again, more wild crying, dummy spat out angrily each time, me quietly crying too, feeling miserable - DH got up and took over, settling him fairly quickly.

(DH has the week off and is doing the midnight - 7am shift at the moment Smile)

The good bit is DS then slept for about 5 hours in a chunk! Settled fairly easily after half a bottle. And was awoken by us at 7am again too.

I have a question though, wonder what your thoughts are everyone? :

When I settle DS at 7pm, I give him a feed at half six-ish and he gets very sleepy and drowsy on the boob. I then put him in the cot when he is nearly asleep and give him his dummy. I know this isn't in keeping with the technique - he does know he is in his cot but hasn't gone from wide awake to sleeping in there.

However, at nap times, he does get put in his cot awake, is given his dummy, and goes to sleep after a bit of quacking and complaining (with me stroking his head then leaving the room when he has quietened). He sleeps for about 30 mins each nap.

I wonder whether I should change the boob/settle/cot routine at night? It's been our routine since he was born and I do love quietly spending that time close to him. But perhaps it would be better if he had a feed earlier, before bath perhaps.....and then went in his cot and was settled with dummy?

I feel a bit loathe to do it because I know we both enjoy the end-of-the-day closeness. But perhaps it will help him?

Thanks for any thoughts! Smile

Mjtay · 07/03/2012 20:36

Oovoof... IMO I think as long as he is awake when he goes in his cot, and naps he is awake, so he's still learning to get himself to sleep so I wouldn't worry too much. I now, when possible, feed dd before her bath, as suggested by nectarina, as wind is a big issue for us, and it gives her time to bring it up.

Nectarina... 3 nights undisturbed sleep, and I'm so tired today! Strange!!!

Rreow.. U given this a go tonite?!

Pipoca... All good still?! Did u do naps today?! Xxx

tinyk · 07/03/2012 22:24

Hi everyone. I'm doing this for our night wakings at the mo - this is night two and so far is worse than usual!!! Anyone else found that? I'm looking for a ray of light to follow ... Sad

pipoca · 08/03/2012 00:23

Day 6 and the worst night so far. Took a while to get her down as she seemed to toss and turn a lot, 15 mins patting and shhhing then she woke after 5 mins and had to do another 15-20mis patting. Woke at 12 and has been awake til now (1.15am) I've tried patting, shhhing and shhhing only and jus sitting in the room. Even tried bf but she wasn't really interested. finally given her some paracetamol in case it's her tooth and just left the room. She's kind of gone waah waah a bit but is now quiet. Has steeled my resolve not to bf at night, cos it doesn't even seem to be a comfort and she certainly doesn't need it, food wise.
Hopefully she'll stay asleep for a bit now cos she can't have any more paracetamol til at least 6am. A bit disappoiting really, but she has seemed a bit miserable today so hopefully it's just the tooth cutting through. Don't think my patting and shhhing is helping at all tonight, she seems better just left. All quiet, only two little waah waahs when I left the room.
now typically I wide afriggingwake.

rrreow · 08/03/2012 13:09

Pffft tried this last night. Feeling positive but it was tough! At least I got a lie-in this morning (although DH was annoyed.. we work from home, supposed to start work at 9am, but was more like 10.30am this morning).

DS went down a treat. Did bedtime routine, put down in his cot. He took about 45 mins to settle but it was mostly just him playing in his cot. I talked to him a lot in a soft voice, suggesting he lie down and close his eyes (don't think he actually understands this yet haha) and singing to him (which he loves! He gets a big smile on his face). Only a tiny bit of crying towards the end and then he dropped off.

The night wakings were something else though. First waking (about 2.5 hours after he fell asleep), I put him on the boob. Kind of think that wasn't the right thing though, as he can usually do more like 4-6 hours between feeds. It was probably a comfort feed, but then he does tend to take his time.. so I don't know for sure. Put him back in his cot afterwards. Then he woke again about 3 hours later at which point we did the comforting with voice/patting/singing but no picking up. That was the toughest bit. Took about an hour of him crying. He was pretty upset :( But he did drop off to sleep again, and no boob involved, so yay!

Then he woke again 2 hours later, but that's his usual morning feed, so I fed him at that point and then let him sleep the rest of the night (another 2 hours) in our bed (as I knew he'd be up for the day otherwise and I really needed that sleep!). He was smiling at me loads when he woke up so at least I also don't have to worry he hates me after letting him cry! Lol.

Overall I'm quite confident about getting him off to sleep by himself. It's just the night wakings that really need some work!

OovoofWelcome · 08/03/2012 16:57

pipoca weirdly it's day 6 for us too and DS had the worst night yet. He woke countless times; there were a couple of three hour stretches I think (is all a blur of tiredness...) but he was so restless.

Although, he had his first ever two hour nap this morning - yes TWO hours I can't believe it, usually it's only 30 mins! I woke him then, too, because I didn't want him to start thinking about swapping day for night or anything crazy!

So even though last night was really difficult, we are still seeing changes.

rrreow seems like your DS can self-settle a treat, an excellent basis to build on. Our DS is dummy-reliant although he must be doing a bit of dummy-free self-settling in the night in order to sleep for slightly longer chunks, I guess...

pipoca · 08/03/2012 17:31

I tried the going in and out of the room shhing and one hand on her back but not patting...leaving for short periods and coming back in at longer intervals. seemed to work ok so hopefully we can gradually move towards just putting her down and she'll settle herself, otherwise the patting I think will just be another crutch and not really solve anything, just change the problem.

Mjtay · 08/03/2012 20:05

I think I mite be on night 6 too! Losing count haha!! And been 10 mind so far but not really any signs of sleeping anytime soon. It's playful noises tho, not crying, so big bonus. Last few days I've just put her down and sat few feet away. Don't think she even knows I'm here!! Bless her! Xxx

Mjtay · 08/03/2012 20:07

Just realised she's trying to put her dummy In Wrong way round. Prib wouldn't help! Haha xxx

OovoofWelcome · 08/03/2012 20:14

Aww! Smile

pipoca · 08/03/2012 21:07

bless Smile

Put DD down earlier tonight and did a bit of shhh and a hand on her back but no patting. Left the room briefly a couple of times but then sat til she dropped off, all in all took 15 mins, so hoping we're back on track.

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