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What worked for us. Hope this helps.

870 replies

nectarina · 29/01/2012 21:03

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

OP posts:
Mjtay · 08/03/2012 21:44

Ah that's good news pipoca! Well done. Think we were bout 20 mins in the end. Felt like forever after the last few nights!! Haha soon take it for granted!! Even thinking of going out for dinner with dh next weekend if she carries on like this! bless her heart!! Xxx

cmm · 09/03/2012 19:35

Hope all getting on ok?! Have had a few night where he's woke more again but still going off really well. Then last night slept through! Now in room settling him now, he's happily babbling away so I'm catching up on messages! I'm on hands resting on his tum rather than stroking tum now, baby steps! X

QwertyQueen · 09/03/2012 22:04

Oh I am so glad to have found this thread!
DD is 10 months old, and also only falls asleep when BF.
Going crazy and was planning on stopping BFing because of it.
W I will try this tomorrow night. I did one day of CC and hated it, this feels more "me"
Will report back!

tinyk · 09/03/2012 23:02

Well, made it through nights two and three, but he's a fighter! Although he's falling back to sleep more easily (sometimes just with a shh from the other side of the room, as i was sleeping in with him) he's also waking up WAY more often (every 1hr-1.5th). This was why we stopped the first time we tried to move him into his own room- after a week he was still progressively worse each day. However, I have a night off and he's got a cold which DH is dealing with so it can only look brighter tomorrow... Smile

Those with kids with dummies... How's it going? He puts his own in his own mouth now, but it's still a cause of major disruption...

tinyk · 10/03/2012 07:35

DH made it to 2am before caving and taking him to bed Angry. Kid has a major cold. What should we do?!?

OovoofWelcome · 10/03/2012 08:45

Hi tinyk how old is your DS? (You probably said upthread...) To answer your dummy question, my 6 month old DS is a dummy-using sleep-fighting little beauty!

It is a bit of a poisoned chalice, isn't it, the dummy - it helps to settle him like nothing else will (well, other than boob of course) but he then wakes for it if he's in light sleep. He can sort of return it to his mouth but not reliably (rarely gets the right angle). So we have to pop it back in and do the old gentle head stroking and nose stroking and shh-shh-shh-ing.

However he IS getting better. He used to wake up loads in the first chunk of the night for the dummy to be replaced - the last few nights he's only woken once or twice, and at about 9.30pm-ish.

Also, the past few nights he has only woken for a feed at half 12 and then again at 5/half 5 Shock Amazing. Although foolishly this morning at half 5 I tried to fob him off with a bit of water and then a bit of bottle (as he lay in the cot). He did then settle with the dummy - for 20 minutes Confused I kept going back in to settle him and we ended up starting the day at half 6. Urgh.

Anyway I suppose what I am saying that he seems to be gradually getting better. He was waking up every 1.5/2 hours through the night before, and we were cosleeping.

As for your DS's cold, I reckon all bets are off when they aren't well. Whatever you and your DH can do to keep up the new routine is good, but if you cave every now and then you won't be back to square one, you just get back on with the new regime when and how you can.

If (when!) my DS gets yet another cold, I think I'll start off the evenings with the right intentions, but cosleep/sleep on the floor next to him if it all goes to pot.

I have to keep reminding myself that it will be a gentle trajectory, a steady improvement, hopefully; it won't be the sure-fire within-a-week speedy solution that CC is reputed to be. Am hoping we won't have to go the CC route so I have to embrace the slower pace. It's hard though. Tiredness sucks.

We'll get there in the end

tinyk · 10/03/2012 10:50

Thanks Oovoof. Your right, this is a long-haul thing. Heres to sleeping by the May bank holiday weekend Grin.

He's 8 months, and the no-more-cosleeping crunch came when he started crawling around the bed in the night, about a month ago (started crawling at 6 mos). Just way too dangerous. Although all he was doing was crawling out of his cosleeper and snuggling up with me, the next step (adventures!) was not one I wanted to experience.

He can always get his own dummy in the day, and actually have seen him do it pretty often at night too but he's been reading Machiavelli I think, as had my DH convinced at 230am that he was dying from this cold and yet a) is not off his food; b) has no temperature and c) was very very happy and well rested this morning Envy.

Tonight I will have to explain to DH that being woken up every 1-1.5 hours is NORMAL at the moment, and the fact he has a snotty nose is no reason to take my only sleep in 3 weeks away from me Angry. After all, he's the one with the sperm...Wink

pipoca · 10/03/2012 15:15

yes, totally agree, one of my reasons for trying something else and trying to get her sleeping in her cot instead of cosleeping was the fact that I just couldn't see how it would work once she was crawling. She's not quite but I wanted to try and crack the cot sleeping before she did. I really don't understnd what co sleepers do once they're mobile, how does the child not fall out of bed? Confused
Still continuing with nectarina's technique for nights and naps. Going okish although the fucking stupid dog woke dd up after only 20mins this morning and I couldn't get her back to sleep. Last night was good...went to sleep instantaneously after boob at 830ish and then only squeaked slightly at 3.20am, I didn't even have to get out of bed. Long may it continue. Hope everyone else is ok.

QwertyQueen · 10/03/2012 18:10

Ok, 1.5 hours in and she is SCREAMINg at me, at what point do I give up?!
She is 10 MO

Josie5 · 10/03/2012 20:03

I'm going to give this a go on Monday I've stopped bf to sleep in our bed as prep for this but I know she is going to cry or ages even with me in the room but am having o go to bed when she does - am typing this as babe is asleep now! Am also a total wimp but I need to get a life back in the evenings!!

Mjtay · 10/03/2012 20:05

Qwerty... I try to do what I can to calm dd with as little contact as pos. When she cried first few nights I sat her up for a change of scenery and to see if there was any wind, and when i lay her back down she's calmer. I personally can't bare to hear my dd crying, and have rocked her to sleep for 2 naps in 7 days of doing this technique. She was only gonna work herself up, so no point in my eyes.

Now my dd is sleeping thro (thank u so So much nectarina) she only sleeps 11 hours instead of 12/13. 6.30 on a sat morn ahhhh! Is this the norm?! Xxx

QwertyQueen · 10/03/2012 20:54

I persevered for another half hour. And she finally settled yay! I wasn't leaving her to scream but shushing her etc. she is very.....very feisty
Let's see what tonight holds!

Mjtay · 10/03/2012 22:00

Ah well done!! Should get better and better! Night 7 and 4 mins!! Xx

QwertyQueen · 11/03/2012 18:05

OMG!!!! night 2 and asleep in a few minutes!! I put her down and she literally did a little whimper, turned over onto her tummy and that was it!!!!
I will walk you through what I did in case I stumbled across a good combination... I really hope it is not just a fluke and tomorrow night she is back to her crazy ways....
BFd in the dark with her, then nice warm bottle, she drank about half... Then walked around the room with her in my arms singing to her and patting her back at the same time with the theory that when I put her down I would carry on the same rhythm... She was totally relaxed and smiling and I put her down, dhe turned over, i carried on singing .... Then reduced to a hum whilst still patting her but I am sure she was asleep already, then finally just patting her...
Brilliant!
I love you nectarina!!!!!
X
Ps... What I found was because I was all ready for a big session, I didn't rush the feed, or after and i wasnt stressing to put her down and I think maybe because I was so relaxed it helped????

tinyk · 11/03/2012 18:12

Anyone else finding this not working so well yet? DH back to his room and I'm "on" again tonight! Here's to wake-ups less frequently than every 1.5hrs. Apparently last night was every 20 min at one point. It can only get better right? I hope so because before we started he slept significantly better... Ah dear. Night 6 here we come!

Josie5 · 11/03/2012 19:28

Qwerty queen you give me hope. My babe is also 'spirited' is that the word. Tenacious. She will cry for 2 hours non stop. But tomorrow night am
Going to start baby boot camp. Have White noise machine music box at the ready. Just hope she gives up more easily than last time!

QwertyQueen · 11/03/2012 19:34

Good luck Jozie, I so hope it works well for us both!!!
How old is your DD?
and Tinyk how old is your DS? Hope tonight goes better for you

QwertyQueen · 11/03/2012 19:39

Ah just seen his age... Poor lad being sick though cant be helping.
I havent started doing this for daytime naps yet... Will try tomorrow.

Josie5 · 11/03/2012 20:08

She is 9'months tomorrow. She slept okayish before we went away for 5 weeks at Xmas. Completely ruined any semblance of routine we had!

Suzysnoozy · 11/03/2012 20:23

Thank you for this post. I never post anything on here but i'm at the end of my tether with my DS and I was going I came onto the sleep section to ask for advice, this has saved me the trouble and sounds promising.

Suzysnoozy · 11/03/2012 20:24

*I meant "and I came onto...." sorry i'm so tired even when I re-read my post I didn't see the mistake!

Mjtay · 11/03/2012 20:35

Well here's some more positive thought for u all to keep at it. Night 8 tonite left the room this eve and dd was asleep in minutes, without a peep out of her! And slept thro for 6 nights on the trot now! She must wake, but presuming she settles herself back off! Struggling with the last 3 days 6.30 start tho!! Xxx

pipoca · 11/03/2012 21:12

Think we're also on night 8 (lost count). DD went down in about 3 mins tonight. Last night she slept from 830pm to 430am and woke up SCREAMING but managed to soothe her to sleep in about 5 mins and she slept til 720. Managed a big nap (almost 2 hours) in the morning, took about 10mins shh and pat and then a little snooze in the afternoon but not as good cos went to see PILs and she fell asleep in the car on the way home. Now not feeding at night at all and it seems to have been at least part of the problem somehow.

Mjtay · 12/03/2012 06:40

Ah pipoca that's brilliant! Well done u. I do think feeding in the night Is a thing of habit. I only discovered one night that she didn't need feeding on the off chance. She was asleep before my milk let down. From there I rocked her off instead, but now we have self settling on our side. She woke up screaming the other night, and I had seen her eyes fluttering on the monitor minutes beforehand. Think it was a bad dream! Don't think she was even really awake! She was so upset I just picked her up and cuddled her. She was soundo when the noise stopped! Xx

rrreow · 12/03/2012 09:52

Mjtay I think 11 hours is normal. My DS sleeps 10-11 hours at night on average. He just doesn't do any longer (unless he's ill or something). Unless your DC is tired during the day I wouldn't worry about it, probably a case of every baby is different.