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What worked for us. Hope this helps.

870 replies

nectarina · 29/01/2012 21:03

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

OP posts:
Bartiimaeus · 28/04/2012 20:08

10 mins to go to sleep tonight! No crying, no need to pick DS up or rock or feed him...a first!

Naps weren't successful today though, ended up using the sling cos we didnt have time to wait it out.

Fairly good night last night-i only had to get up twice and once was cos the neighbour woke DS up at 5am argh!

Am so motivated to keep going though!

FushiasFairy · 28/04/2012 20:35

Call me a wimp, but I think i'm going to back out of this :(
DD just seems to be getting more distressed a lot quicker each night,
and i'm not keen on carrying on.

I think i'm just going to lie her in bed and feed her to sleep for now,
instead of holding her and maybe move on from that.

Good luck to everyone else though :)

DonkeyTeapot · 01/05/2012 10:27

Hello people, I confess I haven't read the whole thread, I am going to go back and read it all but I wanted to post as I am so desperate for some support. :(

DD is 9mo, she goes off to sleep fine at bedtime (although she does fall asleep on the bottle - I only stopped bf a week or so ago but she has been having a bottle at bedtime for a couple of months). The problem is that she is still waking in the night, and taking literally hours to settle again. I suspected the night waking was habit, not hunger, so stopped the night feeds. She wakes up cheerful enough in the morning, not ravenous, so I'm sure it is just habit. I have been putting into practise the method from this thread, but it basically means I sit by her cot whilst she moans and grumbles, not proper crying. She does that for maybe 40 min, but then lays there quietly as if she's falling asleep. I wait 20 - 30 min before I leave her, and ten minutes later she's grumbling again.

I stopped the night feeds ten nights ago, and since then either DP or I have been up at least two hours with her in the night. We don't take her out of her cot, we comfort her with gentle shh-ing and a hand on her back, until she is quiet.

I know we need to change the routine so that the bottle is not the last thing, I just saw a post suggesting putting her in the sleeping bag after the bottle, we've always put her in it before, so that's something we can change. I suppose I am just looking for some clues, because I just cannot continue like this. Last night I had to send DP in to her as I was getting so wound up I just wanted to scream SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP at her. I try to avoid disturbing him in the night as he works with dangerous machinery but I am at my wits end.

Sorry for the massive post, and I know I have it a lot better than some, but I just need to get her sleeping through. I have to go back to work soon and my request for flexible working has been refused so we've got to crack this. Thank you.

nectarina · 01/05/2012 18:06

donkeyteapot you can be forgiven for not reading the whole lot since there are nearly 400 messages! If you are still giving the bottle to sleep that is the number one thing you have to change (I didn't quite get whether you still do or not). This'll make the evening harder for a few nights, but it'll sort out the night wakings. See how it goes in 4 days or so.

OP posts:
DonkeyTeapot · 01/05/2012 19:32

Hi nectarina, yes, DD is still feeding to sleep on the bottle. Sorry my last message was a bit garbled. I think if she wakes in the night tonight she can have whatever she likes, as I just do not have the strength to go through another night like last night. DP is brilliant and very supportive, and will come and help if need be, but he doesn't always wake up when she cries so it's always me that has to get up. Maybe I'll take a few nights to gather my strength and prepare myself, and then see about changing our bedtime routine. Thanks again.

Bartiimaeus · 02/05/2012 13:03

Well, after a few days of trying here is what's happening for us:

Getting easier and easier to get DS to sleep in the evening, without having to feed him.

He self-settles a lot in the night when he wakes up.

But when he can't self-settle this technique isn't working and I end up breastfeeding him.

However the last two nights I've totally changed everything because we're decorating and so DS is sleeping in a different room and there is no room for a chair for me so I fed him off to sleep. However, he has only woken up once per night! Again I fed him, very quick feed and he was off to sleep again no problem!

So, no idea what effect this technique has had but I think it means he is happier to go into his cot in the evening without being totally asleep and he can self-settle sometimes in the night but not always.

Will go back to trying the technique again tonight when we move DS back into his room

nectarina · 03/05/2012 19:33

donkeyteapot how about doing whatever it takes at night but implementing this in the evenings to get going. You might find that this improves by itself.

OP posts:
DonkeyTeapot · 03/05/2012 22:39

Hi Nectarina, I think you might be right. We have changed the bedtime routine now, it used to be

Bath, nightclothes on, into sleeping bag, say goodnight to the animals (farm yard animal transfers on her walls), then bottle and into bed - she'd usually still be awake, but would drop off quickly, normally with not much fuss.

Now she has her bottle downstairs while she's fully dressed, then upstairs to bath, nightclothes on, into sleeping bag, say goodnight to the animals, story, bed.

Last night was the first night and she actually fell asleep immediately without a single cry! A fluke, I think. But she woke up at 3.30 and was up for 1hr 15min. Tonight there was half an hour of crying before she fell asleep.

I've been waiting about 5 min before going in to her when she wakes, I'd have left it longer but when she woke me I was dying for the loo and knew she'd hear me. If I can I'll leave it the 10 min, but then I will give her the bottle straight away, rather than trying for an hour and then giving in.

nectarina · 04/05/2012 09:59

donkeyteapot yes I would do that for the time being - If DD is hungry, then feeding straight away will break the habit of being up for ages in the middle of the night. You can then work on breaking the bottle in the night habit later on down the line. Just make sure that once she's had the bottle she goes down awake. You're doing well.

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cmm · 04/05/2012 20:18

Oh gosh, it's so hard, my little boy took to it so well (see my posts earlier in thread!) and he's now terrible again don't know why! Know you shouldnt go back but had to go back a few steps as he's unsolvable. Any ideas? X

DonkeyTeapot · 05/05/2012 09:31

Well, DD took about 20 min to go to sleep last night, she woke up at 4am and had a bottle and went straight back into the cot. She grumbled a bit but didn't cry so I went back to bed. She was quiet within a few minutes and didn't wake up until 7.30 this morning, so a much better night for us :)

slumberhungry · 05/05/2012 18:53

Another vote of thanks here, as well as a query. We're on day 5 with a 6.5 month old DS who could self settle but who couldn't self re-settle. We were co-sleeping and he was waking often to feed to sleep. We got to the point of 90 min wake ups all evening and all night, so I reached the point of grim determination....

We've seen a big improvement, although a way to go. He's been in his cot for all the nights and all but 2 day time naps. On our best night he only woke up at 1am and 4am (although it took until 6 for him to go back to sleep from the 4am wake up. He was 'playing' in his cot for 45 mins of this). Generally, the first part of the night works well but once we get into the early hours (3am ish onwards) it's a lot more problematic and I find myself feeding him every couple of hours although putting him down awake afterwards.

A question for those with experience of this technique. Should I hold out more on the feeding in the early morning? He is just crying if I don't feed him which he doesn't do at other times. Is he likely to stop waking as much from 3am after a while or should I be feeding him less? He's been really hungry in the day since we started this method (for both solids and breast milk) so I wonder whether he's just re-balancing his calorie loading and it'll take a while or whether I'm creating a new dependency in the early hours that he'll only re-settle with a topped-up-tummy. he is a glutton of a baby who never says no to food

nectarina · 06/05/2012 18:43

cmm we'll need a bit more information...
donkeyteapot well done, that sounds like heaven
slumberhungry I'd say that at that age you should probably leave at least one feed in place until ds is used to getting enough calories in the day.
I said it somewhere further up the thread, that i continued to feed dd in the night when she wanted it. She stopped waking for it of her own accord within a couple of weeks. So I don't recommend witholding feeds, just make sure ds goes down awake each time.

OP posts:
cmm · 06/05/2012 19:43

Just checked last message and mean inconsolable not unsolvable!!! Just realised little thing has ear infection but no temp explains why so bad laid down. Will just go with it and then go back to holding hand or hand just in cot rather than no contact and moved away into chair as knows he not well, then will move slowly away from contact again, does that sound ok? He had got worse before that but will see how it goes, thanks again

chillikat · 07/05/2012 09:49

I can't remember whether I've posted on this thread before... I'd love to try the technique but my 13mo DD screams when we put her in the cot awake.

DH tried last night for a while (to be honest I probably suggested he pick her up after 10 minutes) but she just screamed and screamed - I think she'll cry to exhaustion and sleep so it just feels like we're doing CIO but staying in the room :( no amount of patting or stroking seems to calm her. She's happy enough to be put in there during the day for a while but usually naps in the pushchair.

Should we keep up with her in the cot with us reassuring her through the screams until she's asleep? or maybe try for 30 minutes each night and see if it improves?

Any advice welcome.

nectarina · 07/05/2012 18:09

Ok chillikat I think you shouldn't attempt this until you can put dd down without her screaming. I would try putting her in her cot and reading or singing or playing or whatever will get her used to being there without screaming. Then when she's more at ease you can try this technique - but don't do anything that makes your dd screaming til she's sick.
cmm its usually illness/teething that cocks it all up. Your plan sounds good to me. Let me know how it all goes.

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DonkeyTeapot · 08/05/2012 09:45

Hi gang. Hope everyone had a nice bank holiday.

Sunday night: Took about 30 min to go to sleep, but slept through til 5 before waking for a feed, then slept again until 8.00, sweet!

Monday night: Took about 2 min to go to sleep, but woke up at 11pm and again at 2am, when I fed her, and then she was up for the day at 6am.

There just seems to be no pattern whatsoever, I don't know how to tackle it as every night can be completely different. I just never know what sort of a night we're going to have.

nectarina · 08/05/2012 19:16

donkeyteapot sounds like an improvement at least, and its still early days. Sounds like you do know how to tackle it, you might have to be a bit patient before you get consistent all nighters. (and know that things get screwed up with every tooth and illness)

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chillikat · 08/05/2012 21:09

Well, I gave it a go tonight after she was still awake after a good feed. I sat her in the cot rather than lying her down which seemed to work to avoid screaming. She spent probably a good half hour rearranging her toys, blanket and cushion occasionally lying on the cushion testing it out. Eventually, though she got upset and couldn't be calmed, even continuing to cry when i picked her up. Another short breastfeed and she's asleep and back in the cot.

I'm hopeful if we can avoid screaming at the beginning it might work eventually, it might just take even longer...

nectarina · 09/05/2012 04:44

chillikat ok this sounds good to me - do the same every night and it'll work out. Let her play, and carry on trying to console her without picking her up. Consider it a weeks preparation for trying in earnest later, so you shouldn't feel bad about bf to sleep if it goes badly.

OP posts:
chillikat · 09/05/2012 13:48

That's what I thought. It was going well for a good while and gave me hope. Apparently she has crawled off the the comfy corner at nursery and fallen asleep so I think she can do it.

slumberhungry · 10/05/2012 09:19

Chillikat - your DD reminds me of our DD (now 3). For a long time the cot was a place she saw as evil - it took a lot of time and patience. You'll get there! Sounds like you're making great progress..

We're about 10 days in now with 6.5month old DS, but haven't retreated very far. We've definitely seen a huge improvement in sleep and have our evenings back which is magic!

I've now got a new and surprising issue. Does anyone else have trouble waking their baby after feeding. I never thought I'd be saying this a couple of weeks ago but I'm picking DS up when he needs feeding (between 11.30 and 1am usually), he feeds and falls back to sleep immediately. I take him off the breast, hold him upright, burp him, talk to him, blow gently on his face, tickle his chin and he just sleeps! I've spent two mins trying this before laying him in his cot. This then invariably means he's up 90-120 mins later and stays in that pattern the rest of the night. How do other people wake their babies after feeds? And how long does it take? I figure I need to wake him up before I lie him in the cot, not once he's in it.

He's also reliably awake for 1 hour now each night, around 3am (aargh!) which involves playing, and eventually more crying than any other falling asleep time where with lots of singing and patting he will go back to sleep. It's not desperately upset crying, just frustrated and will stop for 5 mins here and there before starting again...

Any advice/thoughts very welcome!

nectarina · 10/05/2012 20:20

slumberhungry I found getting my evening back more of a reason to celebrate than not waking in the night. I suddenly felt more of a human to have a few hours to myself.
For your new and surprising issue, hmmm...how much do you feed him, just a bit or a lot? I wonder if you could experiment with feeding a bit less so that he's not fast asleep. This might help nightwean as well if that's something you'd like to do.
I'm not sure what you should do about the 3am party - sounds v. annoying. I can only suggest being patient, I don't think it will last long. (grasping at straws). Let us know how it goes.
chillikat oh my god, something is changing...our DD put her head on the sofa as if she was going to sleep - something we've never seen her do before. Lasted 2 secs.

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TheSecretCervix · 10/05/2012 20:44

Just wanted to thank the OP for this. My DS is 8.5 months and has never really altered his 'newborn' sleep pattern, what seemed manageable in the early days has started to feel pretty desperate! He only does little naps in the day and is up every couple of hours at night, we have been co-sleeping for most of the night but I still feel exhausted as he is just constantly attached to me! I am back at work 3 days a week so sleep is very much needed.
I came onto the 'sleep' board in desperation for some solution, I was beginning to consider CIO (even though this goes against all my parenting principles!) but I need SOME sleep!
So I'm not going to count my chickens and all that, but I feel like this technique has given us a place to start at least! I put DS done for a nap in his cot this afternoon, it took one hour fifteen minutes of clapping, rolling, chatting and hand standing before he eventually gave in and fell asleep for just over an hour, which is unheard of in the day, his usual cot naps (when he has fallen asleep on me and been put down) last about 15 minutes. It took him ten minutes of wriggling to fall asleep this evening, but no real tears. He woke about twenty minutes later but I gave him a quick stroke and then sat next to him for another 10 minutes until he fell asleep. He has now been asleep since 7pm, murmured once but went back to sleep.
I'm not looking forward to him waking in the night, as he is so used to having boob to fall asleep next to me but I am determined to try! Even if he can sleep in his cot some of the night I will be happy!
So thank you OP for giving me some hope... :) Sorry that's so long! I will update you tomorrow on the nights events!!

TheSecretCervix · 10/05/2012 20:45

Also sorry for so many exclamation marks, obviously over excited with the potential thought of sleep ;)