Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Sleep

Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler. Need more advice on your childs development? Sign up to our Ages and Stages newsletter here.

What worked for us. Hope this helps.

870 replies

nectarina · 29/01/2012 21:03

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

OP posts:
cmm · 22/04/2012 20:54

Thanks nectarina, doing what you said now and putting him down awake even if he screams in middle of night and just comforting him. He is making progress going off, tonight going off again without any hand contact, never thought possible! He seems to wake an hour after going off but trying not to feed again till at least after midnight!! X

FushiasFairy · 22/04/2012 22:22

Hi all,
I've just stumbled accross this thread in desperation really -
I'm going to give it a go, but what i'm wondering is if I can begin it any time of the night or should I just stick with starting it tomorrow so as not to confuse my DD?
She is 13months and currently taking hours to go to bed every night WITH milk, and waking up in the night, too.

cmm · 22/04/2012 23:16

Fushiasfairies - I stumbled across this thread from nectarina too and it transformed my little boys sleep! He too was soooo frequent it was horrid (although I adore him so much!)

See what nectarina says but I would personally wait as I think from my understanding it is teaching them to self settle eventually so they can go off without support, eg bf or rocking etc. then when they stir at night they can self settle rather than rely on a prop or prompt!!!

My little Fella self settles really well At bedtime although working on during night. He responded amazing within two weeks was sleeping through whereas before was hourly waking even more sometimes. He's regressed a little now but partly my fault as feeding to sleep in the night so going to do the same as I do at bedtime, eg feed and then put down awake. Going I sleep is loads better.. It can take a long time as you take it slow but im now not even holding his hand when first put him to bed. I basically bf him then lie him down and sit at side now (see my and others posts for what we've done)
Good luck!!! Definitely worth trying and sure nectarina will get back with some tips too!

FushiasFairy · 23/04/2012 11:37

Well, I shall be starting it tonight, so we'll see what happens!

The thing is, DD can sleep through/self settle, as she's gone through phases of doing it - and at the moment when she wakes up during the night i'll lie down next to her and feed her, then we'll both fall asleep. (however I do not want to sleep in her bed every night!)
Bedtime is a completely different story at the moment, her normal bedtime is 7pm, she has milk and falls asleep in my arms. As soon as I put her down she just rolls over and sits up and then she's wide awake until 9 and it's driving me crazy!
And I just can't let her cry it out as many friends have suggested, because neither of us deal with it well!

I'll report back anyway and let you know how it goes Grin

camdancer · 23/04/2012 14:01

So I tried this with DD2 (10mo) on Saturday night. It took 45 mins but she went to sleep. She then had the best night's sleep she has ever had (only 2 feeds/wake ups).

I wanted to carry on but last night she just fell asleep on my boob. She doesn't feed properly downstairs because there is too much going on - DH, DS and DD1 playing. I tried feeding her with the light on in her bedroom but she also wouldn't feed. So how can I get her to have a proper feed but not fall asleep? I know she is getting milk (can hear swallowing) even when her eyes are shut. Aaagghhh! Any ideas?

Humania · 23/04/2012 14:53

camdancer - we had the same problem so i started giving dd2 her last feed a little earlier, before her bath. So even if she is almost asleep after the feed a bath wakes her up again before bedtime so she can properly self-settle. This worked for us....

HTH

camdancer · 23/04/2012 16:41

Will try that tonight. Thanks.

Bungalowsrule · 24/04/2012 09:00

I am going to try this tonight, wish me luck!!

DD is an amazing sleeper and once she is asleep will sleep through but its just getting her to sleep. The day she turned 9 months she lost the ability to self settle and has been relying on me to lie with her on the bed until she is fast asleep and then transfer her which sometimes takes 2 hours with all the failed attempts and i want my evenings back.

Everyone i speak to tells me to leave her to cry but i just cant do it.

Bungalowsrule · 24/04/2012 09:06

Just a quick question nectarina, if she stands do i keep laying her down whilst saying something like 'its bedtime now E*, lie down now' or do i leave her to it? (sorry if you have covered this already)

Bungalowsrule · 24/04/2012 20:01

Just wanted to say thank you!!!

It only took an hour and shes fast asleep, not even one cry. She was a bit confused but i sat right next to the cot and she gave me some lovely cuddles through the bars, i shut my eyes and she lay down and shut hers!!!

I would never have believed that this would work but i thought it was worth a try and it sooooo was!!

Thanks again

nectarina · 25/04/2012 14:59

camdancer like humania says, find a time and a way to feed dd so that she concentrates but doesn't fall asleep. Before bath is good.
bungalows you probably found your own way by the sounds of it - but in answer to your question, we do a mixture (she STILL doesn't want to go to bed). sometimes ignore, sometimes lie her down, sometimes ask her to lie down. sleep any better in the night?

OP posts:
cmm · 25/04/2012 19:53

Hope you're all having good evenings with the routines!! My baby is going off really well but he's fighting going off awake after bf in middle of night!!!! X

Bartiimaeus · 26/04/2012 09:18

Thank you for this advice!

Tried this for the first time last night with DS (7 months).

Fed him then put him in his cot when awake. He grumbled and whinged and yawned and rubbed his eyes for 30mins. I patted him and spoke soothingly to him. Then he started to really cry - I tried to calm him without picking him up but it didn't work and I couldn't leave him to cry so I picked him up to calm him. He was wide awake looking around, so I fed him again until he was sleepy then put him back in his cot and sat with him. He whinged a little bit but within 5 minutes was fast asleep! Whole thing took 50 minutes. He did need to see me though - kept his eyes fixed on me the whole time.

He woke up at midnight, I waited but he was crying so I went in. I fed him and he fell asleep on me (oops). BUT I put him in his cot and he didn't stir again until 5am. He whinged but I waited and waited (in my room) and he fell asleep by himself! Same thing at 6am!

A brilliant night for us! Will try it again tonight. Am planning on feeding him once in the night if needed for a few days and will gradually withdraw that. Don't want to do it all in one go (as I suspect he needs the feed cos he properly eats, doesn't just suck for comfort).

Bungalowsrule · 26/04/2012 09:30

nectarina we have never had an issue with night time sleep and are very lucky to have a baby who will sleep 13 hours straight (almost) every night, its just the getting her to sleep thats been a problem. Shes sooooo active and seems to have a problem relaxing enough to go to sleep.
Last night however she woke at 10.30 for a moan and the night before at midnight, much to our horror!

The 2 nights we have tried this its taken an hour to get her to sleep which is amazing. All in all its going well so thank you for the thread Grin

Bartiimaeus · 26/04/2012 09:54

Update from my dad who is looking after DS: took 30mins to go down for a nap. My dad had to pick him up twice when crying got too bad but DS did fall asleep by himself in his cot. Fingers crossed this keeps working!

Nessler · 26/04/2012 13:18

Hi there, I had started this method to some initial success but now it has gone downhill.
DS, nearly 8 months, is trying to crawl and keeps going onto his tummy when I put him down in the cot. He tries to move around, drags himself around the cot, gets stuck and frustrated. I then flip him over, he does it again 3-4 times and eventually gets a bit whiny and then falls asleep after a bit of patting/shhing. (takes around 20-30 minutes). Should I be leaving him to settle in what ever position he finds himself in?

It's also a problem for night wakings as he usually sleeps on his side, and I think he rolls over to his belly and then wakes up, pushes up into crawl position and then starts shouting. If we flip him onto his back he gets even louder! We then either pick him up and try to calm him, or I feed him. He doesn't really need the night feeds though.

We haven't really had more than 3 hours sleep at a time and I am on my knees... :(

Bungalowsrule · 26/04/2012 13:52

Nessler we had the same with DD when she was 7 months and trying to crawl, to be honest we did anything it took to get her to sleep and left her in any position that she wanted to be in. i never put a blanket in her cot and took all the toys out for safety so it was just her in her sleeping bag, but then we never had the night wakings.....someone will be along soon with more help

nectarina · 26/04/2012 18:47

Nessler I would definitely leave baby to sleep in whatever position they are most comfortable with. Since you're teaching them how to do it themselves, they are now the ones that decide! (I'm not suggesting that people put a baby on their tummies by the way, just you let them do it themselves). Hope things improve quickly
bartilimaeus very good news, nice that your dad can keep it consistent with you too.
bungalowsrule the night waking will just be a blip whilst dd is getting used to the new way. she'll go back to sleeping through. Glad the evenings are easier.

OP posts:
Nessler · 26/04/2012 19:10

Thanks Bungalows and Nectarina.

To clarify I only flip him onto his back again if he gets himself stuck trying to roll himself over.
The main issue is during wakings in the night- if he has woken up and is shouting while on his hands and knees, should we be lying him back down, or leaving him to do what he wants while we sit next to him?

I am so desperate to get this right as I cannot handle much more of the broken nights!

Bartiimaeus · 27/04/2012 08:52

Argh last night was not so good Sad

DS fell asleep on me before I had chance to put him in his cot. Literally. I put him in his sleeping bag after his bath, picked him up to carry him into his room and he fell asleep on me! First time ever (DH was most puzzled when I came out of the bedroom saying he was already asleep!)

But he gave me the chance to try the new technique at 11pm. It was awful. Cried and cried. Picked him up to calm him, put him down. He cried and cried (sad/something wrong crying, not annoyed/tired crying). It took so long I even checked his nappy/checked he wasn't teething etc. because he seemed so unhappy.

He kept falling asleep on me (but not asking to be fed which is also very unusual) but as soon as I put him down he'd start wailing again. Eventually I put him down on his tummy (dunno why, just did) and he was out like a light! First time I've put him to sleep on his tummy, but I left him (he can roll over easily) and he slept from 12 til 5.30! Woke and self-settled and again at 6.15am (then DH got up for work which woke us all up )

So tonight I might try the tummy again. We'll see.

Hope everyone else is getting better nights sleep.

FushiasFairy · 27/04/2012 10:53

Hello again,

Just thought i'd report back on how it went for me,
I tried it for the first time last night as tuesday we had to go and stay at my mums and wednesday I was too tired (i'm pregnant so get tired very easily) to even think about doing it!
DD was full of milk but still awake so I thought it was the perfect opportunity to give it a go.
I did everything you're supposed to do, but by 45 minutes she was crying too much to even let me settle her, although she was absolutely shattered and kept lying down and closing her eyes, and every time I thought "this is it!" but no, she just fought it and in the end I had to give her some milk as she was so upset.
I didn't know what else to do - but the really confusing part was the fact she slept through, 9:30 - 6:30, which amazed me as she's not slept through in weeks?!
Her sleep is just all over the place at the moment, and i've not got long until I need her to sleep well because of the new baby on the way. Aaahhhh.

Any advice on what to do when she just won't settle?

Bungalowsrule · 27/04/2012 12:30

Awful night for me aswell, bedtime was great and easy but then DD was up 4 times and didnt sleep between 1.20am and 6am which has never ever happened before, even when she was tiny the most she ever woke was 3 times.

I ended up asleep on her bedroom floor after unsuccesfully trying to get her to settle in my bed. She was trying to scratch her face off so maybe its her big teeth coming through?? Shes had her 8 front teeth since 7 months and nothing since.

She is a wingy mess today Sad and wont nap.

Hmmmm......ill keep trying.

nectarina · 27/04/2012 13:30

fuschiasfairy you've described exactly what has happened for others on the first night. you just need to carry on like this. The first night can be very upsetting for the babies, but you've got the worst over with. All being well you'll find tonight at least marginally easier and you probably won't have to give in and feed. You did the right thing by the way - even though the goal is to not feed to sleep, you really have to be the one to judge when its too much. The goal is to be consistent without being a heartless robot.
bungalowsrule oh dear, sounds awful! does sound like teething to me, I think you're right to carry on though.
bartilmaeus sounds like it went a lot better than bungalows, sorry bungalows.

OP posts:
FushiasFairy · 27/04/2012 15:19

Thanks for the reply nectarina, that's made me feel alot more confident! DD was so close to dropping off by herself (but she's too stubborn to give in!) so i'll keep at it!

DeathMetalMum · 27/04/2012 20:40

Hi, we have done our own little take on this but since trying (and failing and giving in and feding dd) the first time last friday, dd has fallen asleep for the first time by herself :) shes 15 months nearly.
What we started doing was just leaving het in the cot I would reassure her sing etc whilst sitting/ standing next to her but she wasnt having any of it she wouldnt even lay down she just stood in the cot first she was very excitible then she would get very upset she even made herslef sick by sticking her hands down her throat it was horrible I was nearly in tears myself, I would have given up if she wasnt biting me everytime I was breastfeedig her to sleep. Something needed to change. So the next couple of nights we did the same and I ended up feedig a very exhausted dd to sleep after around an hour of leaving her it was the only way I thought she would calm down, next night however (after more biting) I got her out and refused to feed her just rocked her to sleep took about 20 minutes and lots of crying but she fell asleep without the breast in her mouth, she slept pretty much from 9 until 5.30 not waking whereas she was waking once or twice before. Last night was terrible again lots of rocking and crying but she didnt fall asleep until 10.15 it took df to rock her to sleep he gets back from work just before 10 so couldnt help earlier but im sure she would have been asleep much quicker if her was to take over earlier, she woke at 6.30. Tonight she was in the cot 30 minutes no crying little standing and she was asleep I am so happy that she has finall fallen asleep by herslef. Im sure she will throw a spanner in the works in the middle of the night but will tackle that one as it comes. (sorry if there are no paragraphs abd for any spelling I am using my phone).

Swipe left for the next trending thread