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What worked for us. Hope this helps.

870 replies

nectarina · 29/01/2012 21:03

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

OP posts:
fannybaws · 27/03/2012 21:54

Hi all started this tonight with my bf cosleeping 14 month old.
Something had to give as I am knackered and he is in danger if falling out of my bed.
Well about 20 mins of full on screaming with me singing and patting then he fell asleep.
I will feed him if he wakes in the middle of the night and will then put him back in and shush/pat , wish me luck, wibble.

er1507 · 27/03/2012 22:51

After reading this when it was first posted I knew that this method was right up my street but I hadn't reached breaking point just yet and was too tired to start it! Anyway one night while I was giving dd a cuddle for bed I just thought "hmmm I wonder what she'll do if I put her down?" so I did and she went to sleep! A little patting was involved but u do not understand how triumphant I felt! I've been putting her down when she's drowsy and as soon as she goes down she starts flapping to play and is awake completely loving life until I put her on her tummy then she cwtchs in and goes to sleep, not sleeping through but her sleep has improved alot since! I have been patting though and as soo as she's over the cold she has I feel ready to to do this head on! Thanks for posting!!

Ginfox · 28/03/2012 09:03

Morning all! Reporting on last night: after 2 hours of alternating babbling/playing, and screaming the house down, DH came in to give me a break and she fell asleep in his arms. So not ideal but she then slept from 10ish til 2am, had a feed, then slept til 5. And I know she woke inbetween times, but after a quick grizzle she settled herself again. Prior to this she would sleep til 11ish, then be up every 1-2hrs wanting a suckle, so this is huge progress!

I'm cautiously optimistic, and hoping it wasn't a coincidence!

lagartija · 28/03/2012 10:03

Still working well for us, altho DD woke at 11pm, 1 am and 6am lst night...not usual but think there's a top tooth cutting through. Currently trying the non patting route for a nap. I'm sitting by her cot on the laptop doing shhhh but no pattig to see f she'll manage to sleep without actual backslapping. She's just sort of rolling about whinging at the mo.

lagartija · 28/03/2012 11:28

gah....
she was ok for a bit then got upset and rapidly totally hysterical. ended up bfing to calm her (she sobbed pathetically while bfing) and then pat pat pat to sleep. Feel like the cruellest, worst mother in the world. She's been down 45 min now. bleurgh, will have to stick to shh pat for the time being I think.

nectarina · 28/03/2012 13:54

lagartija oh dear, don't feel bad. Further up the thread someone posted a very similar reaction, they tried again the next night and it went loads easier. Can I suggest you try one more time? Its quite usual for the baby to be pissed off at the change, but the baby has already understood something, even if you ended up bfing.
ginfox sounds like progress even if it didn't go to plan. stick with it!
well done er1507 and fannybaws too

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fannybaws · 28/03/2012 19:16

Nectarina you are my hero!
I have just watched my lo fall asleep in his cot!
Last night went well woke at 4 15 I did feed him then put him back to bed awake, he cried on and off for 30 mins or so with me patting his tum and chanting, go to sleep in a low voice.
Tonight he has taken 45 mins but no screaming at all just a bit of tired crying which stopped as soon as I sang or patted I can't believe it.
Until yesterday he has always resisted being alone in bed, he used to be fast asleep on me then ping awake as soon as I tried to put him down.
This technique where you stay with them constantly really works fr him and me.
We shall see what tonight brings but I know he can do it, and without screaming and panic, thank you so much for posting. :)

OptomisticBiscuit · 07/04/2012 21:13

Thank you so much for this post Nectarina, I am on the third night of trying this and I can't believe the difference in my daughters sleep. She is 6 months old and I have rocked her to sleep (and often fed her to sleep) since she was born. She has been waking for longer and longer in the night, often staying awake for an hour or more after a feed, and waking several times, only to get up for the day at 6.00. Also she had started to push me away as I rocked her to sleep.

The first night we tried this she cried solidly for 30 mins, bellowed for 30 seconds and then stopped, turned on her side and went to sleep. She woke once for a feed at 04.00 and went straight back to sleep until 7am (bliss!). The second night she cried for 20 minutes and only woke for one feed at midnight, waking at 06.40, and tonight she took 30 mins to get to sleep but did not really cry much and was mostly crawling around in her cot.

Fingers crossed this really seems to be working, we are dong it for all naps too.

Pinbeak · 08/04/2012 19:47

I was wondering how everyone was getting on. I started this about a month ago and have had a few weeks of teething and illness (and possibly 9 month sleep regression).
Have just resorted to bf to sleep but DD seems fine in herself last few days so thought I'd crack on as her sleep is really bad (up 5 times a night, sometimes for an hour) So have had 20mins of crying and now she's out. Not looking forward to the rest of the night!
Was wondering how other people were doing after periods of illness and teething and whether it took as long to reduce night wakings as the first time you did the technique. I'm also wondering if people are finding they have to repeat the technique after every illness and teething episode? DD only has 2 teeth so could be doing this many times if so!

Pinbeak · 10/04/2012 20:36

Hopefully bumping! Smile

loopy11 · 15/04/2012 15:13

Hi all. I started this a few weeks ago. I used to feed/rock to sleep but now my 12 mth old is settling himself to sleep in his cot with no intervention from me. Its made a massive difference to the number of night-time wake-ups. He used to wake every 2-3 hours but now pretty much always sleeps through (7:30-6:30) - sometimes waking once. Never though it was possible!
Anyway - the issue I'm having at the moment is that I have followed the technique until I am at the door - as far away from the cot as I can be without leaving the room and he is fine. The problem is that as soon as I actually leave the room he goes mental! I have tried pottering outside so he knows I'm there and that seems to make him worse. I've even tried standing half in-half out but that doesn't fool him either. I did this technique as I really didn't want to do contolled crying but is that my only option if I want him to go to sleep on his own? The other option I guess is just to sit there but it seems such a waste of time for me to sit in a dark room for 40 mins every night not actually doing anything! Anyone else had a similar experience? Any ideas?

nectarina · 15/04/2012 18:01

how nice to hear some more optimistic stories - ahhhh...
loopy11 three months on, and we haven't been able to leave before dd's asleep! we have the same issue that she goes crazy if we leave for more than 2 minutes. Since we're so happy about her sleeping through we feel we can be a bit more patient about it for the moment. If anyone has any advice on this matter I'd be very grateful too.
pinbeak from my point of view its not something we have to repeat as I don't revert to feeding to sleep when DD's ill. She does come to bed with us sometimes, but she doesn't wake like before. I think the general advice is even when ill or teething to be as indulgent as you need to be without diverting from the 'babies getting themselves to sleep' formula. I think for you, it won't be as hard as the first time you did it, as its something she knows and has mastered (even though she put it aside for a bit) so she'll soon get back into the rythym.

OP posts:
er1507 · 15/04/2012 19:52

Ok so I posted a few weeks ago saying that I'm going to try this technique head on and tonight was the first night....up until about a month ago I would rock and jiggle dd to sleep then put her down...then I would rock and jiggle until sleepy and put her down and pat her the rest of the way to sleep...I've now come to the point where dd needs to learn how to relax herself and tonight hasn't taken as long as I thought! around 35min! At least 20 of those were spent trying to get dd to lay down, she just wanted to sit up or play. the rest were crying, mostly grizzly shouting then full on tearful hysterics at which point I felt bad so picked her up comforted her then she done a mix of both crying and an angry one, she fell asleep with me patting her gently. Really wasnt half as bad as I thought cos I did expect the years to be streaming for at least half hour! Let's see how the rest of the night and tomorrow goes!

lagartija · 15/04/2012 21:32

Been doing this for about 2 months now. Started with shhhing ad patting to sleep and then we moved to me sitting near the cot and just shhhing. Have now got to the stage that i just put her in and sit on the other side of the room but don't shh or look at her or interact and gurgles a bit and then falls asleep in 5 mins or so. all great but had to drop the cot mattress down today cos she can pull up now and had a bit of a regression. So, not patting but have had to shhh a bit from the other side of the room and she's really let rip for as much as 20 mins today before falling asleep. I think it's cos of dropping the mattress, but she'll settle. Still haven't managed the putting her down and leaving the room, but i don't care as we'd got (until temporary blip of today) so only having to sit for 5 mins and then she slept all night.
Even the few times she's woken in the night, I've waited 5 mins and she's dropped off again.
I really do think this thread is amazing, I'm so glad I read it, I feel like I've got dd to self settle, without any awful CIO and it has saved my sanity ultimately. There were so many things i couldn't do before cos i was so tired.

usingapseudonym · 16/04/2012 16:26

I've been desperately scanning threads looking for something like this. I've got a couple of problems though and wondering if anyone had a similar experience.

My baby will have to share a room with my daughter (3) so I have been trying to put her down in the cot in her room which was working, but then when she cries at 11pm bringing her in with me (but she is wanting to feed every hour) and cosleeping.

Is there any way this would work in a co-sleeping cot? I can't really have her crying in my daughters room as she wlil wake my daughter :(

Its a bit chicken and egg - I want my baby in my daughters room and I think that being away from me will help her sleep better BUT in order to get her into my daughters room I could do with her being able to sleep so as not to disturb her!

nectarina · 16/04/2012 21:33

usingapseudonym hi yes I'm sure this'll work if baby sleeps in the same room as you, however I think it would be better if they are in their own cot at on the other side of the room (I'm not sure what you mean by co-sleeping cot). All the principles are the same.
When you've got it under control you'll then be able to move your little DD into the same room with the bigger one. I agree that it would be v. disruptive to start this in the same room as another child.
Maybe try to work on not jumping out of bed in the night as soon as dd wakes but to try to take your time a bit in order that she gets the chance to get back to sleep by herself. good luck
lagartija i'm very happy for you, its seems to be working v. well (still takes us up to an hour each night....)

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lagartija · 16/04/2012 21:54

Spoke too soon, she's got an awful cold and I think combined with dropping the cot mattress and her new found skill of sitting up and pulling up in the cot, tonight she screamed the house down for an hour and ten minutes. I left the room in the end as it seemed to be making her worse and she cried for another 10 mins and then fell asleep. will see what tonight brings.

lilysma · 18/04/2012 20:31

Largatija I was heartened to read your initial post, as I currently co-sleep with DS (9 months) and don't think either of us are quite ready for him to be in another room but would dearly love to have him sleep for longer and even (whisper it) in the cot next to me. Can I just ask, before your recent set back, did you see a reduction in wakings without having to actually leave your DD to go to sleep on her own? What I want to avoid is getting 'stuck' at getting DS to sleep without feeding but having him still wake a lot in the night without being able to quickly feed him back to sleep IYSWIM. I am tired but could be worse if I have to sit up with him every time he wakes for weeks and weeks... Sorry about your regression though and hope it was a blip and tonight is better!

lagartija · 18/04/2012 21:40

I think you've misunderstood me, lilysma I've never really coslept with DD. I always put her don in her own room in the cot, but if when she woke i used to go in and cosleep on the double bed in there.
I used to be Pipoca o this thread if you search further back. When she was 9 mo I got bronchitis v badly and couldn't cope with getting up mulitple times and having her awake for maybe 2 hrs at a time (feeding to sleep seemed to have stopped working, it was "I can only sleep with a nipple in my mouth" territory) so I did shh pat and she was asleep in 20mins and only woke once that night.
After about a month I managed just to shh from the other side of the room and had got down to just putting her in the cot and sitting on the other side of the room in silence and she'd just gurgle and then roll over and go to sleep in 5 mins. And then sleep thru or at most moan a bit.
Since Monda she's had a cold and I had to drop the cot mattress down and we're back to it taking maybe 30mins of shhh (altho I'm trying not to regress as far as patting too)

nectarina · 18/04/2012 22:25

lilysma I know what you mean
I was worried about not feeding in the middle of the night because it was such an easy way to get dd back to sleep. By the time we did this things had got so bad it was as if we didn't have a choice, but I have to say that her sleep was so significantly improved from the word go that it wasn't as bad as i'd thought. can you get OH to help? you won't get stuck - you can always go back to doing what you're doing now, but i'm sure you won't need to. let us know how you get on.
lagartija i'm sorry for your setback, sounds like its going better though now.

OP posts:
lilysma · 19/04/2012 10:29

Thanks both. I will gird my loins to try it! ;-)

Lagartija hope things get back to normal soon.

DeathMetalMum · 19/04/2012 21:44

Hi,
I half-heartedly tried this today with dd who is 14 months (she was biting me so i put her in the cot for a bit) she seemed to think it was play time when i put her in the cot was walking around the outside jumping etc also playing with her two teddies I kept patting the matress and saying lye down time for sleep etc but she didnt really calm down at all is this normal for the first night? (I know she wasnt quite tired as usual as she had a slightly later nap) Well we stuck ati it for 20 minutes and she didnt really begin to settle at all I had to take her out as she filled her nappy. I then bf her to sleep as usual. Im looking to start properly on sunday wich was the original plan just wondering if anyone else lo thought it was playtime in the cot?

cmm · 19/04/2012 23:46

Hi necterina and all, I tried this technique almost 60 nights ago with fantastic success so quickly. My nine month old was before this feeding hourly and so when I saw this routine I thought I'd try it. He responded so well sleeping through that I didn't need to do the same training during the night and because bf I didn't want to go cold turkey! All was great, but about a month ago he started waking more and it's got worse and worse. He's going off great, almost at moved completely away from him now (taken longer as had bugs and break away) but hr is waking screaming so loud and arching bsck. I am feeding back to sleep again now!
What do you think is happening? He put himself into the sleeping through routine before even when I fed to sleep, eg the routine worked getting himself to sleep and then sleeping longer. Now he goes off awake and well but then nights are awful.
Thanks for your help xxx

cmm · 19/04/2012 23:48

Meant to say he screams so hard when he wakes and arches bsck that I can very rarely get him to settle without a feed. He then bf loads but I know that ultimately he doesn't need the milk!!!! Xx

nectarina · 20/04/2012 20:28

deathmetalmum oh yes quite normal, i'd just tidy up in her room for five minutes while she plays, then ask her to lie down. Don't enter into any games - don't succumb to the charm!
It could take several hours the first night, so don't get dispirited aboutdirty nappies etc just carry on after as yOu were.
cmm oh dear, don't know what thats about. Don't forget you can bf in the night as much as you want, just do it in their room, and put them to sleep awake. You might just have to go with the flow for the mo - i should think the screaming is temporary.

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