Controlled crying AAAAAAAAAAARGH!

[blackchloe]

Please help me. I am in such a pickle with this controlled crying game. I have done this for 3 nights on the trot with my 6 month old with no improvement. She wakes at 2am for a feed which is fine but I have introduced CC because she then wont settle back down to sleep. She had previously been coming into bed with me at 2am and she would settle immediately but only till 4.30am. So after extensive reading I decide to try CC. 5mins, 10 mins then every 15 mins. However she is a stubborn little thing and will not settle . This can go on for 3 HOURS! And then by that point she is ready for her next bottle as its nearly morning. Anyone got any advice? Should I pursue it tonight or just resign myself to the fact that this sleep training method does not work with her. I should point out that this is the last method available as I have tried all the other more gentler methods of sleep training. This CC method means she is exhausted in the day and therefore sleeping more which means she is not so tired at night.

Banana87 I've broken every rule in the book too, breastfed to sleep, co-slept. Never was one for rules.

Once again I find myself reading showofhands' posts and wanting to copy and paste them and print them off as a sort of mantra for my life as a parent. This seems to be happening more and more.

" I consulted a very well known woman who has helped hundreds of parents and whose quals are more impressive then a psychology degree"

Roller baby, it would be very helpful if you coiled tell us what this qualifications are.

SWMNBN?

Just wanted to say that my DS (almost 9 months) was self settling briliantly until a few days ago. Never did CC, just settled him in his cot, initially at bedtime and then for naps too. I also broke the "rules", co-slept until he was 5 months, picked him up when he was upset and cuddled and kissed him in the night.

It all went to pot though in the last few days, when he learned how to pull himself up to standing. No more self settling, he's just standing holding the cot bars. My point is that: if I had done CC with him, I would have to do it again now. Some babies sleep throught the night early and they continue so. Some others (most of them) don't. Sleep is not linear and sleep training often has to be done again after teething, a bad cold, or any other disruption.

Leaving an adult to cry for so long would be considered heartless. Why is it acceptable to do it to a baby then? How do people know that the baby hasn't got his foot or hand stuck in the cot bars for example, or soiled his nappy?

I thought SWMNBN famously had no qualifications at all.........

I really cant see that the previous 3 nights is going to have a long lasting negative effect on her development and am shocked at some of the comments that have been made on this thread which suggest otherwise

It's your choice if you want to ignore scientific research that suggests otherwise.

Here are several more links to back up my argument against CC. You can choose to read them or ignore them. Have a funny feeling it will be the latter.

www.drbenkim.com/articles-attachment-parenting.html

parentingfreedom.com/cry-it-out/

www.examiner.com/attachment-parenting-in-mankato/attachment-parenting-101-ten-reasons-crying-it-out-is-bad-for-babies

www.askdrsears.com/topics/fussy-baby/science-says-excessive-crying-could-be-harmful

www.associatedcontent.com/article/19237/a_factbased_case_against_letting_your.html?cat=25#true

www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2010/12/modern-parenting-techniques-leaving.html

www.bellybelly.com.au/baby/babywise-dangers-warnings-parents-need-to-know

hippiehousewife.blogspot.com/2011/03/attachment-parenting-series-beware-of.html

Three nights in her entire infancy of what, a year and a half, two years? aren't going to set the pattern for the whole of her development.

banana, several of the articles you mention misquote their sources.
for example, the Wolke study about persistent crying and ADHD is often cited as a study about parents who used CIO/CC. In fact, the study was more simply about babies with persistent crying, ie infants who were highly unsettled or colicky. no inference is made in the study about parenting methods of these babies.

Also, several misinterpret the method of CC. In CC, a parent comforts their child every few minutes, and does not abandon them to cry for lengthy periods. Again, it may not work for all children, or be a technique that everyone wishes to use, but I still can find no evidence of its harmfulness.

I don't do cc but I've just had a squiz at that list banana and they're not about cc. The authors Of the websites are interpreting them in that way but that is not what the orig authors of the papers were saying. The papers were about a lot of crying in the early months being harmful, if ignored or persistent.

If a lot of cryingnis harmful then it doesn't really matter why the baby is crying,surely?

Well it's just that I think by their standards cc isn't a lot of crying. Not compared to a colicy baby for eg. The only way it would be similar would be f the cc didn't work and the parent persisted for weeks.

Anyway. As I said I'm not a fan of cc, but I like facts :)

God, my last post was very smug. I was typing one handed while DS in the sling played peekaboo over my shoulder - I didnt have my wits about me.

Sorry

You just can't put a time limit in the crying. Studies show cortisol is released when the baby is stressed or sad. How can you determine, without scientific study, that your baby's brain did not release cortisol in the time (regardless of how small of a time frame it was)? You can't. And remember "only 10 minutes" is a VERY long time to a small baby.

actually, in the Wolke study the (simplified) suggestion is that persistent crying may in some circumstances be an early marker for ADHD, not that the crying causes the ADHD and is therefore harmful.

and done properly cc doesn't involve persistent or unattended crying - that's the whole point of the "controlled" bit.

poor baby.

Banana - no, you can't. I'm not saying it doesn't happen and it isn't harmful, just that that's not what those studies said.

So when doing controlled crying, a baby never cried for, say, 15 minutes unattended?

There are quite a few studies that show that prolonged crying raises cortisol in babies. I shall have a look at some studies later but remember from my psychology degree. I'm shocked that a sleep consultant suggested CIO at 4 months! And more shocked that a mother would listen. Surely a bit of research would tell you that this os a terrible idea.
Roller I think you are confused, it's impossible that your baby was 100th percentile. It doesn't work like that.

banana87- Sorry only had time to skim read the articles. Too busy looking after my children. Noticed whilst skimming that many of the articles are American. Not sure how much faith I have in American research and would prefer to follow the advice of British health visitors. You have an amazing amount of time on your hands to keep posting on here. I would suggest that you spend your time focusing on your 3 year old. Perhaps you could read to them or interact with them rather than banging on with the same points.

"Not sure how much faith I have in American research and would prefer to follow the advice of British health visitors"

Seeker -I take it you have had some bad experiences with health visitors? I have nothing but praise for all the ones I have had contact with. They are most helpful and have given both myself and my friends much more practical/helpful advice than many parenting books and research papers. I am very proud of our NHS system and have nothing but praise for those who work within it. My DD1 was born premature and the health visitors were fantastically helpful when I bought her home from hospital.

You're deluded blackchloe if you think British health visitors are better than american research.

Loving the classic "look after your kids instead of mumsneting" insult. For your info, those links came from a group of people who are knowledgeable about crying it out because they've done the research, unlike yourself based on your OP. oh, and my three year old isn't here when I'm on mumsnet . Perhaps you should see to the needs of your baby rather than "arghhhh"ing on mumsnet and letting her scream. Just a thought.

Oh dear you have got a chip on your shoulder banana87. Feeling guilty perhaps. Did my comments hit a nerve? Poor you.

No issue with health visitors at all. Some are good, some are excellent, some not so good.

But I wouldn't expect a health visitor to necessarily be up to date with the latest research on cortisol release.