Controlled crying AAAAAAAAAAARGH!

[blackchloe]

Please help me. I am in such a pickle with this controlled crying game. I have done this for 3 nights on the trot with my 6 month old with no improvement. She wakes at 2am for a feed which is fine but I have introduced CC because she then wont settle back down to sleep. She had previously been coming into bed with me at 2am and she would settle immediately but only till 4.30am. So after extensive reading I decide to try CC. 5mins, 10 mins then every 15 mins. However she is a stubborn little thing and will not settle . This can go on for 3 HOURS! And then by that point she is ready for her next bottle as its nearly morning. Anyone got any advice? Should I pursue it tonight or just resign myself to the fact that this sleep training method does not work with her. I should point out that this is the last method available as I have tried all the other more gentler methods of sleep training. This CC method means she is exhausted in the day and therefore sleeping more which means she is not so tired at night.

Seeker - surely you see that using cc is itself at less than 12 months is itself an opinion. Unless you have access to non-biased, double-blind trial data?

God help the poor mum who asks for help on the "cry it out" technique!

Hopefully anyone leaving a baby to cry it out would be pointed towards some of the research on the effects those "techniques" have on babies!

Of course it's an option! ANYTHING'S an option! There are good and bad options, and options that are matters of opinion. This is a bad one. And if there are going to be so many posts asaying that the the op is going to hqve to leqve the threqd to avoid getting "angry and frustrated" then maybe it's time for q rethink.

Yes I did a sort of cc with my dd from 6 months in that she was in a routine and once I had settled her into her cot at bedtime I would leave her to cry for 10mins before going back in and reassuring, then would repeat until she fell asleep which normally only took about 30mins.

How are you getting her to sleep at bedtime and at naps? Does she self settle then? Will she take a dummy? If she is awake and staying awake for up to 3hrs in the middle of the night having slept well up until then I would think maybe she is sleeping too much in the day or poss teething pain or tummy ache is keeping her awake.

People on here get very precious about cc and I think I am a bit more realistic as a single mum I couldn't spend hours and hours settling my dd every night it just wasn't an option. I don't have any regrets about cc as I feel like I have done my dd a huge favour in learning how to self soothe and settle and she has slept well as a result.

girliefriend - Bedtime is fine , she self settles. Daytime naps are ok too ( between 2 and 3 hrs a day) but mainly because she is in her buggy on the school run. She does have a dummy but is not over relient on it and can fall asleep without it. It may be teeth as she is drooling a lot and gnawing on things?

I would say from experience, that the reason Lo wasn't settling quickly after feeds was possibly due to overtiredness. My two Ds both have reacted in this way to being overtired. The CC will have made them even more tired, and even harder to settle.

Get Lo to sleep, by the easiest method possible, if they are wakeful in the night - due to being OT, then they will be awake for approx 1.5 hours. Get through that time however you like, then try and resettle just before 1.5 hours is up, and they will drop back off. IME there is not much you can do to get them asleep any quicker.

CC will not make them sleep better if they are overtired, they will just be quiet and won't cry out for company.

I did do an element of CC for my Ds2 for naps at about 6 months as he wouldn't sleep at all. Night sleep has only just got better at 12 months, but it only took 1 session of CC a few nights ago. So I would say, it is easier when they are a little older.

I'm sorry, you left your six month old baby to cry for THREE hours?

Jesus wept.

Did CC at 6 months too. My LO went mental when I kept going in every 5, 10 mins etc... Maybe don't do that, I have read on MN that other posters have experienced the same thing as in babies getting more aggravated when you keep coming in and out.
Who is the person who invented CC? She/he must be very old because even my gran used to do it on with my dad!!

Oh and I'd hit the calpol or teething gel to eliminate potential pain due to teething.

I did not leave her to cry. I went in at regular intervals, spoke to her, patted her and stroked her head, hence the name controlled crying NOT crying it out.

DialMforMummy - did it work for you in the end?

It really really angers me that parents think CC at such a young age is ok. Have you not read the research about the psychological damage it can do? Sure, you're tired, but you knew what you were getting into when you got pregnant and had a baby. It's tough, no one said it was going to be easy. I'd much rather be sleep deprived than cause my baby long term psychological damage.

Yes blackchloe it took about 5/6 days. Now when LO cries at night I know something is wrong.
banana87 No I haven't but I am aware of the study that took place in an orphanage in Easter Europe somewhere. And in this one one children where left to cry for hours on end day after day. Quite different.
Otherwise, everyone I know in my family has done some form of CC and they are reasonably well balanced individuals (well unless you think that using CC can not make you well balanced!)

Banana, here is the best research link I could find on the subject. The conclusion of the research survey is that there is no clear evidence of psychological damage from cc. Do you have something better to offer (apart from outrage)?

answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/774928.html

Apologies, I got it wrong. The studies have not been definitive, however if you read this article you will see that researchers suggest psychological stress and even brain damage from using CC from too young of an age: www.drmomma.org/2009/12/cons-of-controlled-crying-cio.html

Sleep deprivation is very bad for maternal health. It can make women feel terrible and depressed. It can make them too tired to be able to interact and play with their babies during the day, Banana87.

banana87 - I have just read this article and it says
"You too would withdraw and become sad if the people you loved avoided eye contact, as some sleep training techniques advise, and repeatedly ignored your cries".
I find this grossly irritating for 2 reasons

1. I do not ignore her cries. She is tended too every 15 mins
2. What about the other 21 hours in the day when she is showered with love, cuddles and affection.

I just dont buy it that CC can have such long term effects. As a teacher I have never encountered a child who is psychologically damaged because of CC! Ultimately people do CC because they love their babies and want to help them get a better nights sleep, therefore making them more alert and receptive in the day.

I agree Abra1d. And you have to consider the effect on other siblings in the family whose lives have already been rocked by the new arrival. The last thing my 5 year old is a walking zombie for a mother.

I did CC with DC1. Then while studying for my degree, found several studies linking persistent crying (which essentially is what CC is) to increased cortisol (stress hormone) levels in the baby's brain. In turn there are links between increased cortisol levels and the incidence of ADHD, Anxiety and Depression in children and teenagers. Studies are widely available to read...just google Cortisol Levels and Crying.

As someone who has suffered from anxiety and depression, I don't feel comfortable with increasing my DCs risk of suffering through using Controlled Crying. I co-sleep with my DC, which is what works for me. I understand, OP, why you don't feel comfortable with co-sleeping and wonder whether at least having DD in your room would make her less stressed in the night (perhaps you could use a travel cot for the bit between 2 and the morning?). Alternatively, is it possible that she is sleeping more in the day than she needs to, or too late in the day? Mine were having about 2 hours in the day by 6 months - a short morning nap and then about an hour and a half after lunch. Whatever approach you choose, 3 days is not long enough for you to see miraculous changes...I wonder how much of a chance you've given the other methods you've tried?

ballstoit - would you say that your DC1 has been damaged by cc? Difficult to use a travel cot as bedroom is too small. We only just squeezed in a moses basket in the early months and that was hanging out the door! May try to reduce her naps though.

OP- You say in your OP that the crying continues for 3 hours. Even if she is being "attended to" every 15 minutes, she is still crying or upset for 3 hours. That is a VERY LONG time for a 6 month old baby (or even a child!). Also, you have also stated that bringing her in with you calms her. So why not just do that? The only reason you are sleep deprived is because you are desperate to get your 6 month old baby to self settle in the middle of the night, which she is trying to tell you she isn't ready to do yet.

If you use CC in a sensible and loving way, it is perfectly fine for a baby of 6 months plus, in my opinion. Of course I'm only basing this on my own son, so hardly a scientific point of view.
I started it at 6 months on the dot, for the odd nights that he wouldn't go down on his own. He was pretty much sleeping through by then (I mean 7-8ish to 5am ish, followed by a couple of hours in with me) so it was only initial bedtime. My thoughts -
Make sure the child is fed, watered, clean and tired. If they get distressed to the point of screaming then stop, cuddle, soothe and try again when they are calm. If it goes on for more than 30 minutes, stop, cuddle, soothe and try again. I would never have left DS if he was screaming, only whinging/tired crying. I would not have kept it up for 3 hours. I was not averse to co-sleeping and would do that if DS really wasn't playing ball.
For us, it wasn't a magic, 3 nights and he's fixed, solution. He would self settle most nights, and on the nights he didn't, we did CC. Those nights got fewer and further between until he was pretty much 100% ok self settling.

Once again, not a scientific study, just my own son - who is probably a naturally good sleeper anyway - given his father's sleep addiction issue but I do understand the issues around stress, attachment and brain development and my son is a very well adjusted, happy, healthily attached child of 3 who has no fear of bedtime and sleeps brilliantly. I believe that there is a world of difference between attempting to force a child who is not ready to self settle, and assisting a child who is very ready. CC should only be used for the second group and if your DD isn't ready for that at 6mo then she isn't. If you are at it for up to 3 hours then I'd venture to say she's not quite ready - but do bear it in mind for a few months down the line. I'd advise you to continue with co-sleeping when she wakes up at night for a little while longer.

banana87 -I think that you need to read my previous post about cot death in the family to understand my concerns. I would like to get my baby to self settle so I have a happier baby in the day, NOT for selfish reasons ie. my own sleep! I do not have an issue with getting up in the night to see to her or feed her. I have an issue with having a grizzly baby the next day because she cant self settle.

I completely understand your concern about co-sleeping OP. Would you consider getting a bedside cot so that baby is actually in her own cot but attached to your bed?