Sleep Nightmares Part III: At 3am No-One Can Hear You Scream

[CountBapula]

I've been moaning about documenting my 8 mo DS's 'challenging' sleep patterns on MN since he was three weeks old. He's still waking every 2-3 hours at least and the other thread's full, so here's a shiny new one for all you parents of hardcore sleep refusenik babies.

Who's with me?

That's great Count I hope you have turned a corner and things keep getting better for you

My DS rolls onto his side as soon as we put him in his cot and the HV said that if he is doing this minslef we can't do anything about it. He has also started rolling onto his tummy and we have awoke a few times to find him asleep on his tumme - we just roll him back onto his back but then he goes back to his side and on we go again!

We had a good night as well last night Went to bed at 8pm - resettled at 8.10 and then we woke him for his night feed at 10.45pm slept until 2.30pm resettled in a minute and then slept until 5.30pm again settled quickly then the usual grizzles from about 6pm (may have settled him once in between 2.30 and 5.30 ).

As we sleep with the cot on the side of the bed we usually settle by cuddling and then in bed with us. Last night we decided that we must try to stop doing this as would love to put the side back on the cot and move it a few feet away from the bed. So last night we just settled by placing hand on ds and putting dummy back in. It worked last night but he was very tired last night (only nappped for 2.5hrs and not the usual 4hrs and had loads of fresh air) - whicch one is to thank for the sleep .

I am praying that the hourly night wakings have stopped and we can get a few stretches of a few hours at a time! It's amazing how hopeful one good night can make you feel!!!

That does sound good. What do you do, do you co-sleep or have the cot in your room. And what do you do about tired crying?

I could co-sleep but is barely an improvement. I used to from birth because of his sleep and then he just got too big and kicked me too much. So I put him in the cot and he started waking up just two or three times. Then it all went haywire for no reason.

I've spoken to my husband about me not having any room and he just says well I'll go and sleep in the spare room if he's any trouble tonight. But he's trouble every night. It takes me forever to settle him, then I have to lie in this little cramped space for twenty minutes and then try and put the baby in the cot without waking him up. That the really hard part because it's a high fixed cot, I haven't got any room, it's dark, he's eighteen pounds and the lightest sleeper imaginable. Even if I do get him in his cot, he's crying for me again after an hour.

Michelle -we have a cheap (£65) ikea cot. We have taken the aide off and have bungee roped it to the side of the bed. We have stufffed a towel down the back of the mattress so there is no gap between the cot mattress and our mattress. This makes settling in the night and transferring from bed to cot much easier. I got tyhr idea from mn!

sorry meant taken the 'side' off

Hee hee well you wouldn't take an aide off would you? Bring on the aides!

Michelle it does sound like co sleeping would be the best chance of you getting some sleep in the short term which is what matters most. Tell your dp you're exhausted, the bed is not big enough for 3, and could he go in the spare all night tonight. Then get an early night. My dc have all been light sleepers to start with but they get better. I can now put the dts in cots from the bed quite easily if I can be bothered to sit up.

Last night the longest stretch was 1h15. Hoping tonight will be better. Worked out they're about 35 weeks so hopefully things will improve at 37 weeks. What I would do for 3 hours sleep!

Three hours sleep sounds wonderful. I spoke to him about it and he was upset about sleeping in the spare room. I wish it was me who could just go in the spare room every night though. Imagine it!

hi michelle, sorry that you have to join us. I've only been here for a few days (although with no sleep it actually feels more like years..) and I can't tell you how much better it is in the morning when you can whinge about your night and the people you are whinging to actually completely understand what you are saying. I'm feeling much more sane already and we've had a truly horrible week. fingers crossed you feel better very soon too.

I'm mightily impressed that you only had a mini row with DH. I've certainly had maxi rows over much less. We co-sleep too (for exactly the same reason as you - DD wants to be with me) although my DH works away during the week so I really notice his presence when he's back. Having said that, DD wants to cuddle right up to me anyway so I always get forced to the edge of the bed. Couple of suggestions:

1. can you buy a bigger bed? I know that might not be possible but we're now in a super kingsize and that really helps with space (although the sheets are inordinately expensive)
2. have you tried putting the mattress on the floor - we haven't gone there yet because it makes me feel like i'm going back to student living (I would love to be a student again for all its freedoms but I like the creature comforts of being considerably a little bit older). If the mattress is on the floor, you could put cushions around it and create the feeling of a bigger bed - or if you can't afford a bigger bed but can get a bigger mattress then you could try that.
3. When DS is awake in the night, DH can certainly help - when my DH is home, we take it in turns to let the other one get some sleep. DH can't settle DD like I can (no boobs!) but he can walk her around the flat and she will fall asleep on him. We don't let the other one stay up for more than an hour like that. When its my turn and she won't settle, I sometimes just sit with her whilst she rolls around her cot. Yes, neither of us are sleeping but sometimes she needs to tired herself out and me being there calms her and she enjoys some happy time in the cot which I think is helping with settling there at night.

I've probably gone on long enough but I hope that's helpful. DD sleeping on her tummy last night got me two lots of 4 hours! Hurrah! I feel like a different woman. It will probably never happen again..

Ooh, Kitty, that's brilliant news! So pleased for you.

Hi, just thought I'd post to say am still here and DS hasn't miraculously started sleeping! Hello to newbies too.

Count glad things are improving for you now. I have been laughing to myself when putting DS to bed, thinking of your description of pressing against your DS's pillowy cheek while making snoring sounds. The things we do for our babies eh!?

DS is waking up about 3 times a night, just going with it at the mo and trying instead to get him to nap in his cot and settle a bit more on his own at bedtime. Slowly, slowly...

Judys how is your dad? Are you still visiting him?

Prolific Willy Breeder (great name btw!) and MamaChoc I also have read some of your other posts, with much respect and admiration for your circumstances!

Cosmosis sorry things have turned after such a success. I find that falling asleep after ages then waking again THE most frustrating thing!

Hi kittyburgh,

Thanks for the suggestions

We've taken the side off the cot today so I hope that will make a difference.

I feel like he's gone back to being a newborn. He literally will not settle even for a few minutes day or night without me there. Only he isn't a newborn and I can't pick him up and cuddle him like I used to.

I'm leaping wildly from one point to the other. One minute I think, I can't carry on like this, I'm going to let him cry and I don't care what happens! Then the next I'm cuddling him and thinking I'll do whatever it takes, he can stay sleeping with me forever. I'm all over the place. And when I do go to him crying, he's so overjoyed to see me that he starts laughing his head off. So he can't be that upset? Or is he? I think he might be a really emotional baby. Not that I know anything about babies.

Ugh I am driving myself mad.

oh michelle it could be me writing your post. DD also feels like a newborn again, except she's almost 7 months old, and she screams like the house is burning down when she wakes up and the minute I pick her up she's asleep again. I also leap wildly between the two extremes you describe and know nothing about babies!

Very randomly one day a woman who had been putting her bins out started chatting to DD when I walked past. I don't know if she worked with children but she gave me all manner of advice, including "you've just got to stay relaxed about it all". I think of her often although I rarely managed to stay relaxed..

Let me know what happens with the cot side off. Fingers crossed for your night. Ours is already horrendous - I knew last night would be a one off!

I'm tentatively hoping tonight might go ok on the basis that terrible nights can't happen two in a row. so far, both asleep by 7pm, didn't wake till 8.30. I'm off to dream feed and then to sleep myself.

michelle, how old is your ds? it's not the classic 17 week regression is it? if so, hold tight, it will pass. all this will pass. just do whatever necessary to get enough sleep yourself to survive. hope taking the side off the cot will give you enough space to sleep tonight. otherwise I think your dp has to realise that if you're doing all the night wakings, the least he can do is make a small change, occasionally, to facilitate you sleeping in between.

I need to join this thread please. DD is 7 months old and a delight in the day and a horror at night. I'm finding myself dreading going to bed each night. She rarely BF's during the day and then wants to feed 3 hrly all night. I feel like this is never going to improve and just can;t imagine her ever sleeping through. Everyone else I know has babies that sleep for 10-12 hrs each night. Sometimes I just want to run away. Just occasionally like the other night she will sleep for 8 hr solid so I know she can do it, but then it will be another 3 weeks before it happens again. Sorry for the rant.

Oh I am so glad I found this thread! It's like you all live with me! I thought everyone elses baby slept fine and mine was just baked wrong or something.

Relaxing is brilliant advice. If only it was that simple, right?

From what (frantic and desperate) research I've done, I think it is four month regression. Only he's now five months and it's just getting worse and he had never once slept through the night anyway. I think the longest he's ever slept is six hours and it scared the life out of me because I thought he was dead. He just seems to be a really light sleeper and very wakeful. Just like me. My mother in law kept insisting that I must be making things up until she offered to take him for the night. We gladly accepted. In the morning she told us she'd been up all night with him and that we need to take him to the doctors because there must be something wrong with him.

Tonight I've done something different. I kept him downstairs with me all evening since he doesn't want to leave my side. He fell asleep with me on the sofa and has finally after two days of trying, now gone in his cot next to me in bed. I know he can't stay downstairs every night watching the tv with me but I'm taking Mumsnet advice and thinking short term for now. I'm in newborn survival mode mark 2!

Yay for cot sleeping!

Does it count as a good night if they gave me a two hour stretch 12-2 but woke crying with tiredness at 530? Been trying to rock them back ever since but even the magic rocking chair isn't working. Still, encouraged that they seem to be going beyond an hour in cots.

Yay Michelle - sounds promising! Mama, it counts as a good night if you feel good about it. My perception of a good night's sleep has changed beyond recognition. For example - DS went to sleep (on the boob - oops) at 8pm, woke briefly at 11ish but went back to sleep easily with a bit of shushing and patting. Same again at 1am. Let out a cry at 3:30am but went back to sleep. Woke fully at 4:50am. Fell asleep feeding, I put him in bed next to me and he slept until 6:30. And that, to me, is a brilliant night. A year ago I'd have thought it was terrible!

Well he slept for forty minutes in the cot by himself. I feel great about that! I spent the next four hours trying to get him to sleep in the cot without me, which was a lot easier without the side. I managed to get him to just hold my hand at one point but that was it. My husband said to tell him when I'd had enough and after that he took him so I could sleep by myself. So it was more restful for me but a worse night in terms of him clinging to me.

'mine was just baked wrong'... That made me laugh out loud. How many times I have heard mums saying that their babies sleep through. I decided a month or so ago that the only way to deal with that was to assume they are lying. Then I found you guys, and whilst I am sad that you are going through this, I am very glad that I'm not alone.

michelle I've read that the four months (17 weeks?) regression is a particularly hard one because they only just have time to finish it before they need to start preparing for the next one (26 weeks) so it can feel continuous. I didn't notice the four month regression because there was nothing to regress from... Or so I thought until we hit 26 weeks! I've been there with keeping DD with me in the evening - I used to put her in the sling whilst I watched telly and she would sleep. Its only temporary, I don't remember a big deal changing it back again. Just get him used to sleeping at that time.

We had a pretty good night - basically awake from 7-9.30pm (I thought maybe her previous good night was causing her not to need to sleep again!) but then down til 11, feed, co-sleeping til 3.30, feed and then up at 7. She's currently napping (still being pushed in the pram by DH) and has been for over an hour! I have no idea how any of this has come about and I'm wired to think its temporary but for now I'm letting myself believe that she has just taught herself to sleep. You never know!

Friday night - slept from 7pm until 5am and only woke cos I poked him to make sure he was ok

Last night slept from 7pm until 3am and then alternated between babbling and crying until 4.30 when I gave in and picked him up for a cuddle, thumb was in and he was fast asleep before I had even lifted him out of the cot properly, so I'm guessing he just needed a bit of comfort and as he is only 23 weeks old, I will give it to him and yes I am making yet another rod so I can now make a raft out of them all

I agree with you Cosmosis about the development rather than something you can do, DS2 was permanently attached to me for 12 weeks and has gradually progressed since then to self settling for dropping off in the evening and naps. He has also weaned himself off bf at night. It may be that I am now FF all days and he has some food now aswell. Who knows? I guess all babies are different.

Well fingers crossed this teething bout is over, he went down really easily last night at 7, woke at 12, we tried resettling but he kept waking again after 5 mins, so we figured he was hungry, fed and he was asleep at 1 and woke at 6, came in to our bed and we all dozed/fed/dozed a bit more. Thank god for lying down feeding

sounds like we've had a few good nights on here for once:)

Yes, sounds like some of our babies are giving us a break for once. Welcome kimberlina. You've come to the right place!

We had one of the best days we've had with him yesterday - he was in an amazing mood and also we took him to the swings for the first time and boy did he love it!!!! And then rewarded us with sleep. Which we needed as hadn't gone to bed till 3 the night before due to dinner at friends house/

yay for some better nights!

and at happy babies :)

have to say one of the fab things about dd is she is generally a happy little thing and only grumpy when tired. and i shall confess here that part of me likes her night waking, well for feeding anyway, she is my last baby and there is something lovely about feeding her and then when i wind her she snuggles her head into my neck and shoulders and she is all warm, floppy adn sleepy, i know these days wont last long! i am still knackered tho but as she is my last i am trying to make sure i enjoy every last bit of her babyhood, soon she will be crawling, then toddling and then a terrible two! it really does fly by and i know it seems endless when you are in the middle of sleep exhaustion, but it really doesnt last forever. you WILl actually miss these baby days once they are gone!

and that ^ sounds terribly vomit worthy....... i am melancholy as dd is 6mths today and i cant believe how big she is now compared to the teeny baby she was! the lack of sleep is killing me, i was almost asleep standing up yesterday, but i do know it wont last forever, so like i said i am being optimistic about it and enjoying these moments whilst they last...