please oh please oh please help me with the deeply familiar problem of a crazed toddler!

[motherinferior]

OK, I know, this is posted about again and again and again, and people write books about it, but just at the moment I need help. Please. DD2 has never been particularly good at getting off to sleep - unlike her sister who plummets into sleep like a stone - but recently it's been absolutely nightmarish. I end up fighting with a hysterical toddler. And my capacities are extremely stretched at the moment - DP was away for a lot of September with work, and away for most of October (and I mean most) with his very very ill mother. I'm quite sure DD2 is picking up on this (she asks for 'daddy' at every opportunity) but frankly dealing with an exhausted toddler every evening is getting me to the point where I find it extremely difficult to be as tough as I should be, and things get worse.

She's pottering about again, must go and see....

hmmm well i would take all reachable toys out of her room so she has nothing to play with.

i would do the normal routine (if you have one?) and get her into bed and then leave her there, perhaps with a stairgate at door if she tends to wander?

she will soon figure out it's pretty boring staying up!

if she cries then just put her back into bed without saying anyhting

I do. I take her back, and back, and back. We have an immaculate bedtime routine. I would be at the end of my tether without this additional hassle - with it, I'm close to tears.

then just leave her in her room with nothing to do. stairgate so she can't get out.

perhaps she has just got into the habit of doing it/likes the attention

see what happens if you ignore it./

MI it may not be the best idea in the long run but have you taken her into bed with you

as i say not good in the long run but you sound desperate

Thank you NP - I am desperate. Because I also suspect that her current behaviour is because she is rather distressed. Her father isn't here (she may even think that if she stays up long enough he'll come home). When he does come back it's only for a very short amount of time and he's clearly very stressed and distressed. Come to that I'm also very stressed and distressed.

could he chat to her on a webcam maybe?

she is maybe worried you are going to go away too so keep her close - even if that means in your bed

im so sorry i cant come round and help or provide any decent advice

maybe try sitting next to her bed till shes asleep, then slowly move further away over consecutive nights, she might just be feeling a bit insecure at the mo if family is stressed, they pick up on everything. good luck! i know its a mare!!

We have had a nightmare with DS1 since the summer and are only just getting better. We now read a story to him on his sofa, then once he is in his cot ( gave up on big bed but that's another story!!)we read another one but every time he makes a sound or starts fidgiting we stop reading! It's not ideal as I know that the stories are now a prop to falling asleep but better than the hysterics and climbing antics we had before. If he's not settling we put a chair in his doorway and sit on that - he knows we are there but can't see us so gets bored and falls asleep!

By the way Motherinferior - thanks for your advice in the summer about second labours - had such a different experience this time and never imagined it'd all be so calm! Hope you manage to get DD to sleep better soon.

I've forgotten exactly how old she is mi.

Does she sleep in the day?

What is your evening 'routine'?

hi all, sorry about yesterday's extremely stressed-out panic. Enid, she's dropped her afternoon nap at home (she does nap chez childminder) and our evening routine is that slightly but not overly chaotic one of bath/stories (during which DD2 does admittedly potter off occasionally, but only to play - I should haul her back onto my knee) and bed. Both together. I occasionally experiment with separately but it's not overly effective.

I think - I know - it has to be Firmness All The Way. DP is home so it'll probably be easier for her, too, tonight...

I do appreciate the support; thank you so much.

MI, I agree, if she's worried what she needs is you to stick to any routine since I think deviating might make her even more anxious. If daddy's not around and is stressed she needs to know some things stay the same I think. I agree with the idea of making her room boring as hell, and maybe staying in there while she drops off and moving away until you're outside the door if you have to. Poor you and dp and dd's, I do sympathise.

Sadly, her room is arranged to be childfriendly, with toys in boxes at floor level. And there are two bookcases, one stuffed with books and one with cuddly toys. Actually I don't mind if she climbs out and potters with the toys etc for a bit - I see it as the equivalent of reading in bed - but I do mind her pottering sweetly out and requesting 'a hug' or sitting down determinedly trying to draw on a post-it note at my feet, while clearly rabid with exhaustion.

She's a lovely little girl, just determined. There is a stubborness about her that bodes well for her future if you happen not to be a mother forseeing those teenage years with a prematurely sinking feeling

MI, DH travels a lot and we have found out that DS is much better when he knows all the information about DH's absence.

A night before leaving Dh explains to him that he is going to be working in X place (DS has already understood the concept that when the word "work" is involved, nothing he knows about will change the situation no matter how much he rebels about it). DH also tells him how long he is going to be away and when he will come back, that he will miss him and will try to talk to him on the phone. Obviously, DS still gets a bit out of track, but it's doesn't get really bad. When he's older, I would like to use a map with little flags explaining where DH is and a calendar where he can cross the days before DH comes back.

HTH

P.S. I also saw in a book about daddys recordin night time stories for their children in advance so they go to sleep hearing daddy's voice. I think this is a tiny bit OTT but if she keeps asking about her daddy, it may help

mi, have you tried getting dp to phone at bedtime when he's away and tell dd2 she has to be in bed before he can speak to her? I know it's prob hard for regular phone calls at the mo and that it won't prevent her from getting up again, but might it halp her to be calm and happier at bedtime?

Hi MI, my bundle of joy has been doing the same for a couple of months.

It started when DP went away on business for 5 weeks - aaargh. Bed time just disintegrated into a total nightmare, I was ringing up DP in Australia and crying over the telephone. What happended, I won £100 worth of books from a mumsnet competition. Got totally inspired and just read to the boys for about an hour and a half one night, DS2 was so totally taken aback that he fell into bed and did not get up. The night before it had taken 2 hours.

When I analysed it, I realised that I had been letting them watch TV after bath and doing 1 or 2 books because I was so exhausted.

Cant say that it has been plain sailing but DP is back, we have a early evening TV ban, lots of reading and at least he is sleeping though he does still try out patience.

How is DD1? Got used to reception?

sorry no time to post more

making mayonnaise

I get firm with dd2 and say she can stay in her room but she is NOT to come out, then after 15 mins I say its bed. She looks at books in bed and often falls asleep with her face in Spot.

If she does come out or get out of bed I threaten her with her light off.