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Original poster

The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

998 replies

Bumperlicious · 14/02/2011 20:01

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

OP posts:
Original poster
Bumperlicious · 01/03/2011 18:53

Hi all

Coming to the end of chicken pox (for dd1 at least...). My night wakings are paltry compared to yours (though we are back to two night wakings), but I retain my credentials by dd2 not going down in the evenings. I have no time to myself. Dd2 is such a pain to get to sleep. Doesn't help with dd1, who is currently having a tantrum, coming in while I try and get the baby down asking in a stage whisper 'mum, can I have a banana?' or yelling from the bathroom 'I've done a poo, can you wipe my bottom!'.

Dd1 is currently downstairs crying, dd2 upstair in her hammock crying. Tried feeding her to sleep, she just won't go down between 6 and 11pm, driving me mad!

OP posts:
AliGrylls · 01/03/2011 21:06

I have decided the worst thing about having a child who hates sleeping - you feel like everyone is looking at you and saying "what is she doing with that child?" Now I look at them and just think "if only you knew".

Same problem I have (hopefully had) bumper. DS2 doesn't go to sleep most nights until after 10. Last night he fell asleep at 8 and I didn't wake him up for 10 o'clock feed because I couldn't face the hassle of trying to get him back to sleep. I think sometimes it is hard to know what to do for the best. That is definitely what I struggle with. For example, tonight he went to sleep at 7:30 - do you think I should wake him at 10 or leave him? I just feel that if I wake him up to feed it makes it worse.

Original poster
Bumperlicious · 01/03/2011 21:28

Hmmm don't know. On the very rare occasions dd has slept in the evening I've dream fed her ie fed without waking.

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CountBapula · 01/03/2011 22:16

So ... first night of pu/pd. Started off promisingly - DS calmed dpwn when I picked him up and seemed to be settling. But I could tell he just wanted to go to sleep on my shoulder, and he'd close his eyes when I picked him up only to start sobbing when I put him down. After 10 mins or so he'd worked himself up into a frenzy, as I'd feared. He calmed slightly when picked up but went ballistic when put down. Then after a while, picking him up didn't calm him. So after 45 minutes of this I just put him in the cot and sat next to him, shhing and patting and singing and stroking and cuddling (in the cot) and telling him "Mummy's here, I love you" but didn't pick him up. He calmed down for a while when I sang to him, but started crying again so - not sure why - I put my hand over his eyes, and he immediately stopped crying and went still. I went "ssssshhhhh ... ssssshhhhh" for a bit and he went off.

Total crying - about an hour and a quarter. He regularly cries for longer than this when we're rocking him to sleep. Not sure what effect (if any) this will have, as I didn't end up doing it 'right' and just did what I thought was best - I knew I didn't want to leave him alone, but I wanted him to go to sleep in his cot rather than on my shoulder, which he did. Am going to try it for a few days and see if it gets any easier.

Not sure if that's a success or not ... Confused

Original poster
Bumperlicious · 01/03/2011 22:34

Well, at least he went down. Does sound like the pu/pd made him more upset. Maybe see how it goes tomorrow? Hope you get a decent night.

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CountBapula · 01/03/2011 22:59

Well, he's awake now so he stayed down 2hrs 40 mins - no more or less than usual. Not sure what to make of it ... oh well. Even if it just gets him to go to sleep in his cot rather than being rocked for ages it'll be worth it.

Original poster
Bumperlicious · 01/03/2011 23:19

It's progress at least :)

I am moments away from hurling dd across the bed. I am so sick of spending my whole evening trying to get her to sleep and for her to wake up when I try and move or put her down. If I don't feed her she just gets shouty and crabby. I just want to be able to go to bed before fucking 11.30. I want to be able to do something in the evening other than watch iplayer in my bedroom. I have been practically housebound with two kids for over a week and I am going crazy.

If it wasn't for dh doing night duty tonight I would be just sitting here crying. My heart sinks when I put her in the hammock and suddenly get the WTF? look from her. Sometimes I even make it downstairs before she cries. And if I make a cup of tea in a nice mug instead of the thermal mug I normally use she is guranteed to wake up after two mouthfuls.

I am done :(

OP posts:
CountBapula · 01/03/2011 23:24

Oh bumper you poor thing. I know what that's like - being stuck upstairs with a grumpy baby all evening. Hope you at least get some rest tonight - sounds like you need it.

Original poster
Bumperlicious · 01/03/2011 23:26

I'm just shocked at how angry I feel at her. I just put her on the bed and went downstairs to dh. I feel rageful :(

OP posts:
CountBapula · 01/03/2011 23:35

That's the best thing to do - put her down somewhere safe and have a breather. Can DH try and settle her? Sorry you feel so terrible :(

Original poster
Bumperlicious · 01/03/2011 23:48

She's finally down. Am sleeping on the sofa tonight with ear phones in! Hopefully all will be better after a good sleep.

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Pidgin · 02/03/2011 02:29

Sorry to hear about the bad nights. I am also having a shocker. Did pu/pd with DS, he cried for 45 mins, I left the room for the last 5 mins and he quietened, just as I thought he'd gone to sleep he started crying again. Eventually couldn't stand any more - he was hoarse and getting totally hysterical - so I fed him and he went to sleep in a minute. Apart from one stretch of 2 hrs, he has woken every 30-50 minutes since.

DH and I have agreed DS isn't ready for full-on sleep training (15 weeks) but I don't know how much more of this I can do. He is now sleeping on me as cannot settle in cot. He just cannot self-settle or stay asleep.

I just want to lie down and go to sleep, this is torture. The worst thing is that I have created this situation despite trying so hard to do the right thing.

He is falling asleep so I should try too I guess. Sympathy and solidarity to those suffering. This too shall pass, I guess.

CountBapula · 02/03/2011 04:22

pidgin don't blame yourself - maybe he is a bit little - you might have more success in a few weeks. There's nothing wrong with abandoning the plan if it's not working and stressing you out.

I have news - DS was back in bed at 11.45 and has only just woken at 4.15!! Shock Shock Shock

This is the longest stretch of sleep he's had this year. Of course, I've been awake every hour wondering if he's OK - had to go in and check on him about three times - so I've not really slept any better. Also not sure if this is progress or whether he was just tired from all the tears at bedtime. Guess we shall see tomorrow ...

Beingblonde · 02/03/2011 07:50

Wow Count that's great, I'm sure you feel a lot better even though you didn't get any more sleep! Interesting to see how people trying PU/PD go... My DS can't cope with it at all as it's too stimulating for him but all babies are different so I hope you guys have some success with it.
Bumper I can totally sympathise with the angry feelings, I've had the same feeling and the guilt that comes with them. How could you not feel angry when you are so tired and trying your best to what seems like no avail? Try not to feel bad about it.
Well (touches wood) our night was pretty good again. He went down at 6.20 and was awake again at 7.10. I fed him because I didn't think he fed very well just before going down, then at the next waking at 8.30 DH went up and rocked him - and the crying stopped in less than a minute!! I thought he'd turned the monitor off. DS then woke up at 12 and I fed him, then at 4 but settled himself back to sleep, then at 5 for a feed, then up for the day at 7.10. I can certainly live with this. The little tinker is sitting here blowing raspberries at me now!

Pidgin · 02/03/2011 08:32

Count that's excellent news! Knowing they can do it is great because you know that one day they will do it again.

Glad to hear you had a better night too, beingblonde. That's interesting about PUPD being to stimulating for some. I think DS was calmer when I was out of the room, but it felt too harsh to leave him to cry on his own.

Bumper we've all had those angry feelings - sometimes I have to put DS down in the night and go and stand in the kitchen till I feel better. Hope your night on the sofa was ok.

fromheretomaternity · 02/03/2011 08:38

Hi, can I join? Ds2 is 4 months and his sleep is getting worse and worse. He was actually a fab sleeper when very young and was regularly sleeping 8 hours at a stretch at about 2 months... How far away that seems now! Can't self settle, needs to be fed or rocked to sleep, and a nightmare to settle after night waking, can take 1-2 hours.

Tried letting cry it out, cried for 1 hour before sleeping. Only did it a couple of nights and am tempted to try again, though hv has suggested 'gradual retreat' which I am not so convinced about.

cosmosis when you do shush-pat, is baby in your arms or in the cot? Thought I might give it a try. Also I have just put ds in a sleeping bag rather than a swaddling blanket, had a dreadful night as a result but thought I should get him weaned off swaddling before doing serious sleep training otherwise I will have problems later, what have others done?

CountBapula · 02/03/2011 08:52

beingblonde that sounds great!

Well, our night continued well. Fed and back in cot by 4.45 and didn't wake til 8.10!!! Shock Shock Shock

This can't be a coincidence, can it? He has woken every 1-3 hours every night for the last two months. Don't understand how it can have worked so well already, though - I fed him back to sleep for both wakings so he didn't fall asleep in the cot. Confused

CountBapula · 02/03/2011 08:55

fromhere I kept DS swaddled last night - I thought one thing at a time. We have started leaving one arm out for daytime naps - stakes are less high ... Grin

Cosmosis · 02/03/2011 09:06

I do it in my arms, I need to pat v firmly and I can't bear to do that on his chest.

bumper I had the same rage last night, you are not alone. DH came up to rescue me after he heard me telling DS to stop crying you little bastart Blush

Another shocking night here - but my NCT friend is having exactly the same issues, down to the many green poos, so we think they must both have a bug. Erm, her baby that is, not her!

plasticspoon · 02/03/2011 10:10

bumper I struggle with my anger too - and I hope you're reassured by how many of us have said that? When I get to that stage (last happened on Monday night!) I leave the room immediately as when ds was younger and sleep was even worse I got to the point of thumping the duvet next to where he was lying :( which made him scream and me feel terrified that I might hurt him. Now I try to tell him what I am going to do (put you down and go and get daddy) and then run!

I haven't had the energy to even post for the last few days - cosmosis we have a bug going on here too which has turned ds' normally poor sleep downright shocking. Saturday night I sat up on the sofa till 5 am because ds is so bunged up he can't breathe properly lying down. Sunday was better but then Monday it got worse again - dh spent a couple of hours walking him round in the kitchen in the sling and then I strapped ds to my chest and sat on a reclining chair in the lounge and dozed until morning. God, I know it's not safe but I just felt desperate.

I was almost glad yesterday to return to normal craziness of having to spend from 6pm till morning in the bedroom...Confused

plasticspoon · 02/03/2011 10:13

Just for 'fun', if you could change only one thing about your dc's sleep, what would it be? [nosy emoticon]

Enoon · 02/03/2011 10:14

Hi All,

Thought I would let you know what my sleep consultant said to do (obviously this is tailored for my DD but might help). We have to:

  • space night time feeds and only feed every three hours to begin, increasing by 15 mins every three nights
  • shhh and pat in cot if she wakes less than three hours in - do not pick up (am dreading this). Interestingly, the night time wakings plan is pretty much what Count has been doing successfully so this gives me some hope.
  • Reduce night time feeds by one minute each night (also dreading this as mostly feed with eyes shut, having no idea how long I've been feeding for).
  • put her to bed slightly later each night until she goes to bed at 8pm - a 6 month old baby only needs 10 hours apparently, but our night time routine is based on 12 hours so she goes to bed at 6pm.
  • Hour long nap in morning, longer nap in afternoon (12:30 - 1pm). I am to wake DD if she sleeps longer than 1 hour in the morning Shock.
  • Change bedtime routine so that she has her feed downstairs, then bath/pyjamas/story bed upstairs. DD has been settling in her cot at bedtime so we are skipping a few steps apparently.

Am moving house on Friday so won't start this until early next week but will let you know how it's going. It isn't anything new but hopefully having ongoing support from the sleep lady will help. I too find it very difficult to know what to do for the best when DD is screaming in the middle of the night and worry that whatever I am doing is "the wrong thing".

Bumperlicious I have had terrible feelings of rage at DD as well. Have sworn at her and shook my fist in her face, which I feel utterly awful about. After that I spoke to HV and parentline and now leave the room before the feelings get so bad. It is so awful feeling so horrible towards your child, who you love more than anything in the world, but sleep deprivation is a form a torture and drives you crazy. It was after episodes like this happening frequently that we decided to speak to the sleep consultant.

Sorry for long post...

plasticspoon · 02/03/2011 10:20

Hi enoon, how did you find them? Were you referred?

Enoon · 02/03/2011 10:44

Hi Plastic,

I posted a desperate thread on mumsnet saying I was losing the plot from sleep deprivation and someone recommended them. I googled them and looked for people's comments on them and they all seemed to be positive. They do do controlled crying but there are alternatives if you don't want to do that (we don't). Although I think the alternatives will still be pretty tough to do consistently in the middle of the night with a screaming baby....am not looking forward to not picking her up.

They are called millpond www.mill-pond.co.uk/. There are various packages, I have taken the four week one, you can extend to 6 if you need to. It's £250 for four weeks, £315 for 6.

I would pay much much more if I knew DD would sleep consistently as when her sleep gets bad it is ruining our lives - I'm sure everyone on this thread is familiar with that.

HTH

Enoon · 02/03/2011 10:47

Pidgin, I see your baby is younger - they do a package for younger ones too I think, but that is 6 weeks as it takes longer with the littler one.