The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

I know, I should be in bed. Make me go to bed.

GO TO BED

Sorry you feel so crap judy. I feel the same. DS slept for 2.5 hours in the end which is OK I guess, but that was after an hour of screaming. We had dinner, watched half an hour of TV, had a brief but heated "we can't go on like this" discussion, went up to bed and as soon as my head hit the pillow - "waaaaaaahhh". Just know he's going to be up all night as well ... sigh. I hate this too.

Hello! I was reading this thread last night and it reminded me so much of thefirst 6 weeks with my ds. He is now 11 weeks and sleeping really well so I thought I would rack my brains for anything we have done to help him. Here goes:

1. Temperature...we went stay with DH's parents and our room was so cold that I was a bit concerned. As it turned out, he slept really well and we realised that our room at home was too warm and stuffy for him

2. DH...for medical reasons I had to stop breastfeeding at 8 weeks. Don't worry, I am not about to say that ffing helps. However, once ds was settled on bottles, DH could do whole nights. He tends to be less easily woken by ds and I think ds learnt to self settle because DH either didn't wake up or just ignored him if he did. I started leaving him longer after that and he often just went back to sleep

3. dummy...something I swore I'd never use but a lifesaver for calming ds in the evening. He quite often rejects it but will take it if he is v tired

4. when he wouldn't settle, we would sit with him but not get him out of his cot. Figured that he would have comfort but not be falling asleep in our arms

And finally, we realised early on that he hated his Moses basket, we moved him to his big court and you could almost see him sigh with relief!

Hope some of that helps. If not, maybe I can make you laugh instead. DH anf I were trying to get relations back on track this morning when ds kicked his light show thing causing winnie the pooh to dance across the ceiling!!

cos sounds like you have made major progress. How did you stop the feed to sleep thing? Can't seem to do it here. Otoh have done shh pat with success for naps. Also got him to sleep in big cot for naps which is vg. Still up at 2 and 4 last night but went down at half 8 which is new. Also had first meal on own since ds born - was totally fab. Gps babysat.

Relations - oh my god nonexistent. We are going on hol next week tho so you never know!

count hope you feel better

pidgin did nearly spit tea at the doing it in the car idea!

Hope everyones surviving

yeah, well I spoke too soon, as I knew I was. Up every 2 hours last night, and didn't want to sleep in basket at all. I think his tummy was hurting, there was a lot of farting going on. Side effect of starting food I guess.

Sal I just stopped. And yes, it did / does involve some tears, but they are cross not upset and I cuddle him all the way through.

Ugh. Sorry you had a bad night. Yeah wondered if there was any magic involved but figured prob not! Think will try and stop as of tomorrow. Rocking and cuddling only! I say tomorrow as he is zonked on the boob as we speak.

Funny you mention night feeds because we had an interesting one last night. DS woke for the second time at 2.30am, I fell asleep at about 3am feeding him in bed and DH gently took him off me at 3.45 and put him back in the cot. He then woke twice more but I was so bleary DH got up both times and resettled him. There was a bit of crying but only a minute or two. Next thing I know, DS is awake again and it's 7.30am - so he'd gone 5 hours between feeds. This proves to me that he is not always hungry when he wakes - more often than not it's flailing arms, or some noise in the house, or just the transition between sleep cycles. I do get a bit pissed off oversensitive about people going, "oh, he must be hungry, give him formula/baby rice" - implication being, "oh, your milk can't be enough for him". But I've always maintained that DS has a sleep issue, not a feeding issue. If we could just somehow teach him to fall back to sleep on his own, I'm sure things would improve.

Not sure if any of you have read the book by Marc Weissbluth - it's horrid in many ways (very CIO-based) but the stuff about how babies sleep is very useful. He says that if your baby (4 months plus) wakes at night within two hours of a feed, he/she is unlikely to be hungry (and he is a paediatrician, not a self-appointed 'expert'). That really gave me the confidence to send DH in if DS wakes soon after a feed, or to try and rock/shh him back to sleep myself instead of automatically feeding. Last night that meant me not having to get out of bed for five hours or more, even though DS woke up a lot.

Can I join you ladies? I have a 5 mo ds whose sleeping is terrible... much the same as most of you describe. He wasn't too bad at the very beginning (although has never slept more than 5 hours), but I don't know if it's sleep regression or what, but now I'm up every 1-2 hours with him. I ALWAYS end up feeding him as it's the only thing that settles him - previously he used to take a dummy if you held it in for him but no chance now. In fact I threw the dummy across the room in a fit of pique at 1.30 this morning!

I wish so much I could stop feeding to sleep but I always give in as I can't bear the crying and don't want DH to be awake all night, with having to go to work. I bought the ncss book but found lots of it a bit patronising - yes of course we have a flipping night time routine! White noise, muslin that smells of me, yada yada yada...

Doesn't help that I seem to be the only person in my close group of mummy friends whose baby doesn't sleep through. At my lowest ebb, in the early hours after being up every hour since 7, I wonder if it's just cos I'm not very good at this whole parenting thing :(

Welcome, beingblonde, and rest assured it's not you parenting at all - or if it is, everyone on this thread is equally crap! :) Some babies are just not that good at sleeping. Can totally relate to your comments about NCSS - those really subtle things have very little effect on hardcore sleep refuseniks! Although we do find white noise v effective for DS, and feeding him in the dark at night (I used to turn the light on and he'd be up for an hour and a half!).

AnMum PMSL at Winnie the Pooh lightshow interrupting 'relations'. My DS did go through a good phase around 11 weeks but it all went tits up again at 15 weeks ...

Hello, beingblonde - it's really hard not to feel like you're just a crap mum when everyone else's baby is sleeping really well. Keep trying to tell myself I'm not but sometimes not so sure. Had a really rubbish night last night - up every hour and have no patience with DS today so feeling extra bad about myself. I was so annoyed at the NCSS book I emailed the author! Was the bit about babies under 4 months just falling asleep when they are tired.
I don't think it's hunger with DS either - he just seems to become wide awake after each sleep cycle - sometimes even before. What's frustrating is he quite often wakes 10 mins after I fall asleep even if I'm still there doing whatever it was that made him fall asleep in the first place.
anmum - don't want to sound mean but google 4 month sleep regression. DS was doing 6 hour stretches at 12 weeks (though still a nightmare to get to sleep). Think it was around 15 weeks for us as well that it all went wrong (or even worse). Mind you hasn't seemed to affected that many people I know in RL so hopefully you'll be lucky and avoid it. Funny story as well though!
count what kind of white noise do you use? We had tried some that was just static to no effect and have recently borrowed a cd which is deeper noise (wind, water, helicopter type noises). Had really high hopes as took DS for walk in a park on Friday which is next to a busy A road and he slept for nearly 2 hours in the pram which hasn't happened for months but isn't helping so far. Back to the drawing board I guess.
salander hope you had a lovely evening - am dreaming of first dinner out with DH!

Anyone seen this thread?

judy I downloaded a track from here - think it's the 'summer waves' one. It doesn't work on its own - we have to be cuddling and shhing him. When he was tiny, we relied on white noise loads - especially a detuned radio. Sometimes you have to have it on quite loud. DS is the same as yours in that he will only fall asleep in pram or sling if there's traffic noise.

count that was pretty much why I stopped feeding to sleep - I got to the stage where I was putting him on at every waking, but he was suckling and falling asleep before the let down - I absolutely knew he was not hungry, but was just doing it because it was the easy option. But then it just all got too much and I went a bit loopy through lack of sleep.

Hi. Am totally loving this thread and relating to many of the stories. I especially feel for everyone who feels like a crap parent. After 5 yrs of trying and 3 failed cycles of IVF our little miracle came along all by herself. We are so in love with her but I feel so awful when I am (regularly) leaning over her cot trying to shhush/pat her to sleep and feeling anger/frustration/guilt etc. etc.
She has NEVER slept for more than 3 1/2 hours and is now 15 weeks old. She is waking 3-6 times between 7 and 7 and I end up feeding her twice even though I know she probably does not need both!
Daytime is a lottery although I have now confined myself to the house until after her midday sleep when she is usually up by 2pm. This leads to a very dull life but if she doesn't get her naps all hell breaks loose in the evenings!
The trouble is I have no idea how much sleep she needs cos the nights are always awful and I have to fight for every minute during the day. We have never had a day when she's had any amount of sleep that has improved her nights.
We do dummy (but take it out when sleepy), woombie to swaddle (can't cope without)shush/pat, white noise, darkness and all creep around the house.
Can't wait 'til she's fifteen and I'm trying to get her out of bed!!

Hi gummymum, and thanks for your reassurances, Count and Judy. I've been trying to crack daytime sleeping too but can't say on the days he's had more sleep (2hrs 45 being the record) it's had a positive effect at night.
I've possibly done something really stupid tonight - we were out all day and DS was asleep in the car on the way home from 5-6. He normally has his bath at 5.30 but was so sleepy when I took him out of the car seat I just changed him into a sleepsuit and fed him, and put him in his cot. He's asleep, but for how long... I hope I haven't made things worse for myself by not doing any of the 'routine'. On the other hand, the routine seems to have no effect whatsoever... DS doesn't really do sleepy and just screams after his bath (but loves the bath itself). He seems to go from happy, lovely baby to screaming overtired nightmare in the blink of an eye - no sleepy signs in between!

Sorry to hear your night was not better Cosmosis - although the settling bit sounds great and a real step forward - if he does it once he can do it again, after all?

Count that's great your DS went so long between feeds. Mine slept for nearly five hours once (I nearly wept with gratitude the following morning but twas not to be repeated) so I know he can do it. The problem is I'm stuck in the habit of feeding to sleep too so I always feed him when he wakes, even when he's not crying, so he'll go back to sleep. I rhinki this is one of the hardest things about having a poor sleeper - you're prevented from getting into 'good habits' because you're so bloody knackered and will do anything for sleep in the short term.

I sympathise with irritation at those who suggest 'just giving him a bottle' as though this would solve everything. The next person who tells me my problems would be over if I just gave a bottle of formula at 11pm at night will feel the full force of my wrath - or would if I could summon the energy...

I haven't tried white noise yet properly - I'm still in with DS and I can't sleep through it myself. Should probably give it another go.

DS is currently totally wired as he missed his last nap of the day - screaming and feeding alternately. Fun.

pidgin oh how I loathed the people who came out with the formula line with my DD. It was completely evident to me that she was not waking from hunger; clearly all those people advocating formula had had babies who only woke when hungry. Can you imagine that?? [dreamy-eyed-swoon-emoticon].

For what it's worth, DS is formula fed entirely and his sleep is totally shocking. It definitely ain't the answer.

Put him to bed, Pidgin - quick!
Beingblonde - totally agree with the bath. All smiles and fun until being dressed then suddenly red eyes, screaming meltdown until feeding in dark in room!

I have just realised that I feed to sleep every night. It works so well though!
Have only realised cos DD was awake when I put her down for some unknown reason and it took 5 mins or so, but the crying got going. Very nearly put her back on the boob but managed to resist!

How do you avoid feed-to-sleep at night, though? Even I fall asleep!!!

Also am trying PPO for dummy. Does anyone have any experience at this?

Beingblonde mine is exactly the same, especially in the evenings - happy and smiley one minute, overtired the next. I also tire of the sodding routine which seems to make no difference at all...

Narmada - exactly, I know DS' night wakings aren't just hunger because they are so different from day hunger. The trouble is that everyone's foolproof advice only really works for the babies it works for, IYSWIM - if thee was a really foolproof method, there'd only be one sleep book!

Absolutely pidgin. Here's to a better night, although DS has a lovely cold (his, erm, 6th inside 4 months - how can this be?) and is on a milk-strike of epic proportions so I can't see it happening here bleeeuuuuuuuuurrgh.

Sorry for all my typos - wrestling a baby to sleep is not helping my accuracy.

Well, skipping the routine did nothing at all - night was as bad as ever, up every hour or 2. Longest stretch was 1.5 hours. DH was away last night and I tried to leave DS to cry a little longer than I normally would. Total disaster - he just got himself into a hysterical state. So fed up with this. Bit teary this morning! Must not feel sorry for self.

Any of you have a better night?!

Our night felt better though not sure DS woke any less. He was just a bit easier to settle. We actually skipped the bath last night as he was so cranky when it was time for it. I do sometimes wonder if it makes him more agitated. The whole bath at bedtime routine seems to be drilled into me and I'm too scared to drop it in case it makes things worse (though not sure what that would be like ).
DS has a cold at the moment too so I kicked DH out of bed at 4am and took DS in and that always means I get a bit more sleep.
Sorry you're night was crap beingblonde. Think sometimes weekend's can put things even more wrong. Are you on your own for long?

rubbish night here. he went down brilliantly, but woke after an hour and cried evry time he was put down. He's usually only like that when coming down with something so we'll see what bugs are around the corner. I finally managed to get him to stay asleep in the bed with us, but only by feeding lying down and leaving him latched on till he was really asleep.
he's just gone down for nap 1 of the day (he was wide awake by 6) v easily though thankfully.

I have a smear test today, oh joy.