crying it out... how old??

[pugsmum]

I have been trying everything but my DS 1month won't sleep in his moses basket.. The annoying thing is he only wakes twice. Nite for feeds and I wud have brilliant nights if I cud just put him down he is sleepin on my chest on the sofa so he don't sufocate!!!

The midwife said tht we could try leaving him to cry and we tried it once and it worked wonderfully , immediately after 10 mins e fell asleep and slept for 3 hours then again after his first feed....

But I'm sure I can't do this every time and I was unsure that I should b leaving him to cry at such a young age at the time I was so desperate I was willin to try anything. But it broke my heart to do it and I worried about it for ages!!!!

Oooo I'm gonna order that swing on payday!!

10 minutes of crying with you right there patting and shushing him isn't terrible imo - just shutting the door and leaving him to cry himself to sleep would be.

But I agree with everyone else - sleeping on a sofa is dangerous and a cause of cot death. Why not google for safe co-sleeping tips and have him in bed with you?

If you read the research against CIO (the stuff about cortisol levels) it states that the cortisol levels increase when the parent is not attending the baby when it's crying(i.e. walk out of room leaving baby crying and dont come back). When the parents were attending to the baby, even if they didnt "solve" the problem, the cortisol levels didnt rise, even if the baby continued to cry.

Makes sense really- otherwise imagine what the brains of collicy babies would look like?

Therefore I really dont think the OP has done anything wrong by putting the baby init's moses basket in the way she describes.

Wow ok well all your advice seems very criticle and not very helpful... There was a comment in there about support system I have a massive support system but not many young children they r older ones and all help is very dated I simply wanted to see wat extra advise I mite b given to help my situation...

I do not see how sleeping on the sofa is worse that sleeping in the bed wen my bed is defiantly more dangerous its on weels and will move away from the wall leaving a space for ds to drop off the edge... on the sofa I sink in so he wud actually have to jump over the cushions to fall off and there is nothing near his face at all... This was advice I was given from a different thread of mumsnet backed up on the thread by ohter mums!!!!

I now not only feel much worse than wen I posted the threat I feel extremely worried and as if I have nowhere to turn every bit of advise I have been given contradicted the next from midwives , doctor, health visitor and mumsnet!!!!

I not only feel like a terrible mother I am not sure how that is reflected in my typing !!!! That I feel was a massively unnecessary dig

Thanx any way but I don't think I will b back for anymore advise...

I am now not sure where I will go for advise !!

pugsmum - I think the risk with sleeping on the sofa is if the baby is able to roll onto a cushion or get their face wedged in a corner. Could you take your mattress off the bed and sleep on the mattress on the floor?

And don't worry about him crying, it won't have damaged him - there's a big difference between just leaving a baby to cry on his own feeling abandoned, and standing with him stroking his head while he goes to sleep.

Sleeping on th sofa is an increased sids risk as there are more folds and cornerd for a baby to get trapped in and suffocate. Its safer to sleep in a bed with him than on a sofa. Will type more later, as on phone atm

pugsmum, it is not safe for you to sleep on the sofa with him
it just isn't

recent study on SIDS showed that most babies who died when cosleeping did so in a chair/sofa

you are much safer in your own bed where he is lying on a flat, firm surface.

as for leaving a 1 month old to cry it out

i think it's cruel and unnecessary.
he has spent 9 months inside you, being rocked, hearing lots of noise, hearing your voice, being constatnly nurtured and comforted.
of course he doesn't want to be apart from you... babies are supposed to want to be with their mothers

you are looking for a totally unnatural solution to a perfectly natural situation. if you feel the answers so far have been critical that's because it is NOT ok to leave a tiny baby to cry himself to sleep when he needs his mother.

OP, ignore some of the hysteria here. I frequently had to leave a baby to cry for ten minutes to do something vital with an older child. Or have a quick shower or take food out of the oven.

Both mine have grown up to be normal,sensitive, loving human beings.

Try white noise--I had a very small hand-held vaccuum I used to leave on in the room with the baby. Or tune in the radio so that you just get crackles.

really? 10 minutes? to take some food out of the oven

10 minutes is quite a long time to cry for if you actually time it. and the baby is very. very young

it isn't hysteria. it's concern for a tiny little newborns wellbeing

the op said it broke her heart and she is worried, and rightly so!

Not saying, btw, that crying it out is a good thing for such a small baby.

Why try to make her feel worse about it then thisisyesterday? She tried something on advice of her midwife and didn't feel comfortable about it. Telling her how cruel she is isn't helping.

I said there were HARDLY ANY rights or wrongs and I was referring to different methods of sleep training and the differing thresholds for letting a baby cry it out. In other words, no one can say cc or sears or NSCS is right or wrong. It's individual choice. And I don't think it's right to make the OP feel even worse than she does already.

You can easily pick these things up second hand - swings for as little as £20.

Pugs your baby will be fine, I promise. It was such a short period of time, just the once.

As for sleeping on the sofa vs the bed, have you tried having him next to you with him in a sleep bag and your duvet down by your waist? I used to sleep with DS on an arm chair propped up with pillows then changed to that.

Advice from midwives, health visitors and mumsnet will all differ because it's mostly opinions and experience. Every baby is different! You decide what works best for you and your son - it's up to you whether you take the advice or not.

Pugsmum, you've been given lots of good advice on this thread. Ignore the 'you sound young' comment- it's obvioulsy irrelevant! Don't let one poster put you off posting.

Most of the advice is consistent on here:

1. Don't leave a baby under 1 to cry it out.

1. Don't worry about the 10 mins the other day, as you said, you were with him anyway and your natural instinct was that it felt wrong.

1. Try other ways of getting him to stay asleep- white noise, vibrating bouncy chair etc.

1. Research co-sleeping, or ask on here, and do it safely- get a bed guard!!

Congratulations on your new baby :)

i had a problem with my DS in that he would not settle whilst cuddled - he would only settle if left alone. Thus i put him down to sleep, and often he'd yell for a minute, then sleep deeply.

No doubt some people on this thread think that cruel, but to continue to attempt to cuddle to sleep a baby that was only becoming increasingly distressed by my efforts didn't seem sensible to me.

There is a huge difference between leaving a baby who is fully fed and over-tired to calm down, and ignoring a hungry baby.

There Is not ANY proof of long term harm involved from crying it out, or any other sleep strategy.

The op is trying to find an alternative to having her baby co-sleep on a sofa - which i think we agree is undesirable - how about helping her without telling her some crap about 'psychological damage'?

Eatingangelpie, your situation is onviously different if your baby would only settle that way! It's clear from the op that her baby wants cuddling, as do most babies. Leaving most 1mth old babies to cry, I think even you would agree, is cruel.

cosleeping safely

sorry for my earliuer short replies, i was on my phone and it takes ages to upload anything on there.

i have co-slept with all my children and plan to co-sleep with my new baby in a few weeks time. they sleep between me and dh. i have pillow for me, just the one, and a light blanket covering my lower half and tucked round my back (i sleep on the window side and get a draft on my back), baby sleeps nestled to me at around boob height. i have a crib set up in my room, but i only plan to use it when i have to be out of the room for any period of time, also to make sure baby is safe away from my 2yr old.

i dont like cry it out (my nerves cant stand it and goes against my natural instincts) but i dont like to comment on other peoples choices too much. your baby is stil lvery young though, and as you said, it felt wrong to you, so maybe dont do it. my HV's sometimes says tolet them self settle, i say nope, they want me, they can have me.

if you havent tried one already, then try a stretchy wrap sling. it makes some babies feel very secure and snug, and i found with dd4 it induced instant sleep. still works at age 2 on her as well! (but moved onto woven wraps for more support as she is getting big)

I have already tried almost all these things... Just out of curiosity how many of u have had the exact same problem as me not bein able to put down the baby day or night and not being able to sleep AT ALL?????

i have. with dd4. she is/was the worst of my lot for sleeping. she didnt sleep for more than 10mins in the day until very recetly. she is now 2yrs old.

is he colicky at all or seems in pain? dd4 has a cows milk protein allergy, and was in a lot of distress for ages.

will post more, off to see my dd3 nativity play.

good luck :)

Nope, no problems with mine, just normal spectrum of sleep deprivation and separation anxiety. But then I didn't get hysterical about leaving them to cry for a few minutes to wind down when they were clearly tired (not you op, some of the posters on mumsnet who throw all common sense out if the window the moment they hear the term 'cry it out').

pugsmum - just to address your last question - my dd2 hasn't like being put down by me until very recently (she is 11 weeks now) I still have to wait until she is pretty much asleep in my arms until I put her in the cot and it can take a good 2-3 times before she is successfully asleep!

In the early days, I did get some sleep by putting her on my chest in bed like you describe. I wouldn't do it on the sofa though I'm afraid because of the SIDS stuff.

Some of us just have babies that are unputdownable and someone on here made a really good point that it is much easier to accept that and go with it than try to change a baby that will soon be onto a new hase/stage soon.

at nearly 3 months, dd2 will now spend some time alone on a play mat/in a swing chair but we still have the odd day (like yesterday!) when she wouldn't sleep unless held/or in the car and screamed the rest of the time! Today is better. That is how it is!!

sorry for rubbish typos

like = liked
hase = phase