The MN Mail Column - what we think, and what we plan to do next... part 2

[whataboutthisone]

Firstly, I am a regular but have created a new name for this.

My thoughts about what I know so far:

1. In a much earlier post there was a discussion about a change in T&Cs and whether they are valid or not. Several years ago I took a company to court for a breach of their T&Cs. Their argument was that they had changed T&Cs and my complaint was therefore no longer valid. However, the judge said that because I had not specifically been asked to accept the new T&Cs, I was entitled to rely on the ones I had accepted and therefore I won my case.

1. I choose to post on MN in the knowledge that the details I give are probably just obscure enough to anyone I may know in RL who also posts, so that what I say still effectively remains private. However, that doesn't mean that the same could be said of, for instance, my mother, who reads the DM (!) There is probably just enough about my circumstances that would enable her to put 2+2 together. I would like the option to choose whether or not I let my Mum ( or anyone else in RL) in on certain areas of my life, and there is a real possibility that this hack, has taken that choice away from me.

1. I have never ( and now will never) post asking for advice, but I will also be very careful about offering advice in the future. I, along with many others, occasionally use examples from my life to explain where I am coming from. If I continue to do that, as I said earlier, it is possible that some people would be able to work out who I am. Now, I am not so big-headed as to believe that any advice I offer is worth taking, however, there are many fantastic posters on here who do give amazing and insightful advice based on their own experiences. It would be a real shame if that was to stop because they, like me, do not want to share some of those experiences with the folk they are close to in RL. It would also be a real tragedy if others were prevented from asking for help for the same reasons.

I am very disappointed that any MNer would feel it is acceptable to violate the trust we place in each other on this forum. I do not know who she is. I do not want to know who she is. But I hope she is hanging her head in shame for breaching the trust that has been placed in her by everyone whose words she has stolen to make a few bucks!

yes and don't forget that lots of your chat posts will be deleted

so you can easily double that

mp you are Not Helping.

I've just reapeated the search under UnquietDad and can inform you that he's said the same thing (God is no more, long live Richard Dawkins) 22,418 times, per day.

Oh MP don't say things like that - that is just mean

Oh no - I feel much better now - I just googled MP - shall I reveal the results MP?

Maybe my habit is not all that impressive

My teenagers know my MN posting name and I know they have a look sometimes - to see how my swearing is coming along.

I call pax for half an hour, listen to this instead, gwan

But MPs number pales into absolute insignificance when compare to Cods

I want to give numbers but I don't want to upset anyone - I am very impressed though!

I haven't posted since I flounced when this first kicked off, my feelings stay the same but I just wanted to reiterate a couple of points....
MNHQ is a business, it's not Justine and Carrie sitting in some quaint buntylicious shed somewhere and yes, all this chat is in a public forum accessible to all.. but
MNHQ own (or now part own it seems) the copyright to all our musings and that is where there is money to be made. Yes, the site will make money, from hits and links etc, but in the long term owning the copyrighted archive is the bigger money. Publishing the books is proof of that... they will continue to publish those in perpetuity.
Hence they won't delete, that will be effectively giving back ownership
I know a fair amount about copyright, as a photographer I sell licenses and rights to my images on a daily basis and will never willing give away copyright, so I completely understand, business is business. MNHQ need to protect theirs.
Originally I felt it was a fair exchange anyway.
My posts are pretty crappy and I've never given away intimate details, I get to benefit from a whole wealth of witty/brilliant posters. I also trusted the judgement of MNHQ.
What's changed is that the understanding will be that the column in the Mail, will be in association with MN. That they must have received payment in some form.
I know that's not the case, but if the column continues that will be the public understanding.
That will devalue the brand without doubt as I said in my original post. Not all publicity is good publicity you know, perhaps my trust was misplaced.
The whole product (MN) has been built on integrity, honesty and trust... not something that is immediately associated with the DM I must say... That perception will also change the mass market opinion of MN.
I honestly can't believe that Justine et al don't really know the value of their product both emotionally and financially,, they are brilliant journalists and business women, which is why I was so gobsmacked that the copyright issue was not fully understood and investigated by MNHQ.
I'm also not sure there is a win/win situation here. I'm saddened at the thought that MN will change because posters will be so guarded.
All the interesting, funny, heartbreaking stuff will be omitted for for fear of exposure.
Anywa, Sorry for the mammoth post, thought I'd fit it all in now, RL is proving interesting
Oops, despite not posting, I have been reading (obviously ). I totally agree with you.

but it won't change, will it, not really? hardly anyone's on this thread, imo. newbs will come on and spill their guts under the new t and cs. the older ones will forget when this all settles down etc etc.

that's why i think that anonymising and offering a limited time for deletions is the way to go. i don't think that in real terms it will make a whit of difference to mn, but it will make a lot of us feel like we're being treated like adults while this all calms down.

didn't find it too shocking to see the column in the dm, (was on holiday with no internet) didn't recognise anyone though.

Yes, but that's because you are editor for the DM arent you, SEA?

I predict that Justine et al will sell Mumsnet at some point and all this will belong to whoever buys it. Betcha.

It's a business. And hits = £

I think it will change though Aitch, perhaps not in a week, or even a month but ultimately it will change. A lot of new posters lurk for a good while before posting, if the same message of "oh I cant possibly advise I dont want to end up in the press" is given then slowly but surely people will look elsewhere. Your point of hardly anyone being onthis theread is a good one too and I personally think MNHQ was being a bit disingineous in saying on this thread (first one) that they are going to see what we (the Mumsnetters) think/want before moving forward (paraphrasing here ofc); if they really wanted to know then they would make a post on the homepage or in the roundup box asking people to make their views heard. As it is I think they are being a bit underhand, the way things stand they can do what they want and say in the future "oh we asked for opinions but hardly anyone posted on the thread".

Apparently MN is actually a 'social enterprise' ... from their About us page.. ""Mumsnet is a social enterprise. Though the site is a business and we hope to be a profitable one, our overarching aim is not the pursuit of profits. We manage Mumsnet with the aim of serving our community as much as serving our shareholders and we endeavour to conduct business in an ethical manner.""

I don't think the MN community feels very valued right now tbh, and mn could do a lot to alter that by, as Aitch says, having a one time delete all option and then carrying on the way it was.

Much as I may slag MN's handling of certain things, it IS a valuable resource for many people, I thnk losing a few poster's history and mucking up a few threads is worth it to continue the frank and openness of posters on here.

Also, though, I think there should be more in the sign-up part, explaining that your posts may be reproduced so if it is something you do not wish to have attributed to your usual posting name the name change option is available.

I think if Justine and the gang were in it to make a quick buck they could have done far more to line their pockets.

there is minimal advertising on the site and it's very inoffensive and doesn't obstruct the viewing. None of those god awful floating ads that you have to chase around a screen to get rid of etc...I think Justine said they turn down a lot of potential advertisers and I can well believe that.

Turn down or cherry pick?

ingles2hasacesspitfullofDM - "Yes, the site will make money, from hits and links etc, but in the long term owning the copyrighted archive is the bigger money. Publishing the books is proof of that... they will continue to publish those in perpetuity."

Justine has always said that the site makes little money, and I believe that. I do not have the latest book tracker figures on The Toddler Guide but to date from the last figures I looked at, it will be lucky if it has sold 3,000 copies to date, probably making mumsnet, if they are lucky around £2,000.

So I doubt they will make a fortune by advertising or selling books. It is indeed a labour of love for Justine and co;

are people really turning on justine et al now? i think that's way off, tbh. they're good eggs.

yeah they don't smell or anything

I don't think everyone feels like that, Aitch.

But time will tell.

MN don't feel like good eggs for me today. I've asked then to

i feel that way and i have had a gazillion run ins with them over various things.

tbqh, outside of this thread, things are going on as normal

Sorry, one post ran into another one that I chose not to post!

I am not sure turning on is true - well it is not for me anyway.

Custardo do you mean you are cross with HQ or you are not? The place being normal is not surpirising really, afterall people who are upset will mostly have gravitated here, either to post or await news, everyone else has no reason to do anything other than carry on as normal do they?

no i love them i kiss their feet ( hairy and bits between toes v. gross)