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Bye Justine

12 replies

catinthehat1 · 03/05/2009 19:52

OK girls, I think that's it for me for Mumsnet.

It's been nice lurking and occasionally posting when time permits.

Maybe I've helped some people, I've certainly been helped a lot over the years by referring to the archive.

But this- yes - censorship actually takes the biscuit.

For the second time I've had a post taken down which refers to publicly and freely available information you can get on a publicly funded website. It's Companies House. It's not Wikileaks. It's unbelievably basic and public info. (Make sure you refer to the free search facility on that site if you ever need to check out a company which is cheating you and your children of your hard earned money. Directors details are all there as well. Its part of the checks and balances required in a capitalist society.)

The posts have been deleted twice. No explanation from Mumsnet either on the thread linked to below or on my email. To say I am disappointed with this behaviour is an understatement.

I have been on the site for several years now as Catinthehat and Catinthehat1. That is it for me I am afraid.

I will probably lurk to see how long it takes for this post to be taken down, but I won't have anything to say. I will also copy this post to Chat, Flouncers Corner, and Site Stuff with cross references to this thread in "Other subjects". I hope a few people see it but it's a slow night so I don't think it will amount to many people, but do try and remember what has happened here.

Please consider what this means for your freedom to think, explore and share information. Consider the principles which are important to you, and those which are important to the owners of this site. It's certainly been an eyeopener for me.

(Bye Justine)

OP posts:

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HelenMumsnet · 05/05/2009 10:20

Morning.

Sorry we didn't respond to your post over the weekend, catinthehat1 - we needed some time to discuss this at MNHQ first.

We are going to post a proper reply soon but we just wanted to let you know we're not ignoring you.

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BrendaAndEddie · 05/05/2009 10:22

catoutofhat?

catinabag
catinalittertray?

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Flamesparrow · 05/05/2009 10:39

I have no idea what your posts said, but seeing as it is MN who are the ones who can be sued for anything slander/libel (can never remember which is the one in print), even if it is "publicly available info", can you not see why they err on the side of caution?

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JustineMumsnet · 05/05/2009 12:41

Don't go Catinthehat! Tbh as Flamesparrow points out, we are between a rock and a hard place in matters like these because of the current libel laws (see our thoughts on this here). We are liable for what you write and bear in mind we have no real knowledge of the facts - often it's one person's word against another.

In this case we were contacted several times by a Angela Gordon, who says she is the sole member of So Baby, advising us that:

Alan Gordon is not a company director of So Baby, So Baby is not trading as a limited company, and that alan gordon has nothing to do with this business and neither does the business have anything to do with a company called Effect Technology.

We cannot know the truth I'm afraid but once someone's complained if we leave these posts up, they are true and they are deemed to be libelous, which they could be (as Effect Technology looks like it might have gone bust) - then we are liable according to the law to the extent that they are damaging to a business/reputation etc.

We have advised Angela Gordon to post her response directly on the boards to clear things us, as we always do in these matters. She has suggested instead that anyone with outstanding issues contact her directly on ang[email protected] (as she's not v familiar with bulletin boards).

We are always reluctant to knee-jerkly remove members' complaints about companies because we passionately believe in folks sharing information, consequently we get more than our fair share of legal threats (see the Mumsnet Towers blog for evidence!) That's despite the fact that it's cost us some cash in the past, when we felt compelled to pay off Gina Ford rather than go to court (which would have cost an arm and a leg even if we'd won).

Our desired outcome is to hold unscrupulous/ poorly run companies to account and get them to improve due to the weight of public scrutiny. But we aren't always in possession of all the facts and so there is only so much we can do.

(ps come back !)

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sorkycakey · 05/05/2009 12:55

I understand why the posts were removed Justine.
When I paid for my item one month ago, via Paypal, the company the money went to was called Effect Technology - fact!
She is hopefully in the process of resolving my dispute with her.

CITH1, don't go

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minitrip · 05/05/2009 14:28

My money also went to Effect Technology Ltd - also fact.
Here is some (factual) information on this company:
wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/1130063fdfed4be57e1e903db83088d5/wcprodorder?ft=1
It was struck off in June 08, and guess what, it was registered in the same little town as SoBaby (Andover) and as SoBaby Enterprises Limited, of which Angela Gordon is director!! Coincidence??

Some more facts about So Baby Enterprises Ltd, freely available on Companies House:
wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/1130063fdfed4be57e1e903db83088d5/wcprodorder?ft=1
The company was incorporated on 03 March 09, shortly before complaints began appearing on Mumsnet. Angela Gordon is director. Alan Gordon is secretary. When companies realise they are in trouble they often set up new companies with similar names, so that when their existing companies go into administration they can carry on trading under a different name.

Smell something fishy??? Please Justine, don't delete this - I'm only stating facts.

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minitrip · 05/05/2009 14:35

Thanks

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catinthehat2 · 05/05/2009 17:33

After some rather gloomy lurking over the past few days, I was mighty glad to see Justine's sensible comments above.

(And I was very pleased to see that some other posters got what I was on about re sharing information - I shall remember who you are.)

Like all the best phoenix companies I have changed my name slightly, but the ultimate controlling director remains exactly the same.

Glad to be back, thanks for having me!