Our comments, in MN books, who owns our collective wisdom?

[Wotzy]

Who owns our comments?

We can request them to be removed from this forum, but not in print. In posting we give consent for them to be on MN on the web, but does that extend to publication in a book.

I am not looking for a fight, it is a serious question, who owns the copyright to our words, if they are in publication? Was there consent to have our collective words printed in a book?

And yes we can flag up the copyright issue on the join page - give us a wee while as there are big things afoot in the shed right now.

Can we have a list of all the names in the book so we know to go hunt out our mentions?

Is that right, Justine -- that you set up the site in order to support parents, and that the money you make from it is just to facilitate the site's existence?

I had always assumed that it was set up in order to generate profit but that you wanted to generate profit conscientiously by running a site that was genuinely supportive.

I don't intend in the least to be dismissive or cynical by asking this question, I'm just interested.

Good for MN!

I think it is naive in extreme for anyone actually involved in publishing their own work to use extracts on the WWW and not to have thought about copyright beforehand. ...MN have always been upfront about their publishing activities, and it has been discussed widely and is on the 'small print'. If it is going to be something that bothers you, check beforehand!

I think many of us find it easy to pass on a nugget or two of invaluable experience or wisdom in an online coversation but that isn't the same as writing or compiling a whole book. Newspapers, magazines and books often include RL quotes from people used as case studies, and they might be credited as 'Sue Jones, mother of 3 says...' and they don't get paid. I myself have contributed in this way many times (knowing a few jounalists and writers as i do!). In using MN-ers quotes, MN are simply doing that, ely. I think it's a bit much to wat more than the provision of the facility of MN in return....and lets face it, we all benefit from other people's FREE advice and expertise here - has anyone ever paid another poster for advice which may have saved their sanity, marriage or a huge household bill? NO!

MNHQ: Good luck with the book.

Agree entirely, blu

Yes - good luck with the book. I remember the first one beign published!

Boffinmum:

"Some of my stuff is already owned by me and my publisher anyway in IP terms, they can't just decide to acquire it legally for free,"

Are you really posting up copyrighted extracts from your work onto MN?!!!

If that is the case, then I imagine you are either breaching your publisher's copyright by reproducing the material here (if your publisher has the copyright), or you are simply exercising your own right to pass the material to MN for its legitimate use (if you own the copyright).

Blu I take your point. However, those that just dip in and out of MN may not be aware of their publishing activities, or noticed it was discussed back in 2004 or bother to read the 'small print'. It won't actually bother many members either, and will be seen as a lot of fuss about nothing.

As I said it is a universal consideration as the web becomes more widely used as a platform to share personal experiences and who is able to use that information and in what context. Not everyone is aware of copyright issues, you are in publishing, so you do have a better understanding of it than many I expect.

1. Glad and reassured to see MN have the balls to respond.
2. We should share copyright, not have it taken away from us, then it would feel fairer.
3. There should be a charitable donation out of the profits (if any) in recognition that some of this advice is actually very valuable yet given for free (eg top quality HR, legal, medical, breastfeeding advice).
4. We are not daft and we all understand that MN costs something to run, and therefore I imagine people have no problem with the idea of offsetting these costs providing it is done so in the spirit of MN. I think on this occasion MN fell somewhat short of that, so please see points 2 and 3.

What happens with shared copywrite?

Shared copyright would be a bugger to administer

Sorry, have just seen BoffinMum's post. I fundementally disagree with the view that MN outght to make a charitable donation on this basis. Don't post if you don't like the conditions of use. MN was not set up as a charity.

It's the internet! If you post your stuff out into the ether you have to think what might happen to it - or not care. For all MN know, some pearls of wisdom might have been cut and pasted from elsewhere, or people might be passing off their best friend's knowledge or jokes as their own, where does it end?

I don't think not reading the small print is ever an excuse for feeling outraged and downtrodden. And this 'but it's MY wisdom' sounds a bit self-important. We post behind fictional user-names and talk amongst ourselves - MN edit and compile bits of it. Anyone can come and read it online for free, anyway!

And, BoffinMum, in the event that some enterprising person tracked down your books and bought them based on your posting, will you be paying MN a commission?

Agree with Crumpet. This is the Internet and Mumsnet, while here to help people etc etc is still a business with a need to run itself and I see no reason why making money is in some way not "the spirit of mumsnet"

As far as I'm concerned, the "spirt of mumsnet" would mean that if some MNer was silly enough to write information that very very clearly identified them, "I am one of only three people who have ever had 8 children in one go and I am telling you it's hard", I'd expect MN to be sensitive to accidentally "outing" this person in the book. Other than that, if you write something online, especially if you're not identified, surely you accept that it might appear somewhere else?

Justine could you answer my Q about withdrawn posts please?

(I do understand it is too late if the books are already out there or nearly out there IYSWIM)

I am looking forward to the books and am intrigued to see who is in there, didn't you do a list of contributers on the first book MNHQ? I seem to remember it caused much excitment (and probably increased "home crowd" sales )

And ditto for journalists! I'd be pretty peeved if they trawled through all my posts in an attempt to figure out who I am. But if they quote me as "on MN, OhBling says,.." I'm okay with that.

Are the names in the books?

Meant to add - no problem with it

Few more questions:

Threadworm - Sorry yes, to be clear, we'd love to make lots of profits but it isn't the primary purpose of MN - hence why we've not made too many over the years I s'pose. If being very profitable is compatible with running a great community website (with an ethical advertising policy) though, then whoopee.

KingCanuteIAm - we use the boards as they are at the time of writing - the Toddler book was delivered to the publisher in Sept, so obviously if you have subsequently withdrawn posts that were written before then, they might be in the book. We don't use deleted or withdrawn quotes once they are withdrawn though, if that makes any sense.

Almedia - some of the quotes are attributed - the ones that are pulled out of the text. Most are not though - they are written in to the narrative. That's why it's difficult to provide a definitive list of who's been quoted and who hasn't. (Equally you can probably get away with saying you are if you want to).

OK, next question: when are you going to do the MN book on Generally Whittering Without Making Any Useful Parenting Remarks.

That's the one I'm counting on getting into.

I'd get a copy of that if it included a section on Mornington Crescent, because that gives me sleepless nights and I don't know what to do for the best.

Thanks Justine

Threadworm, yes, that is the one I have the best chance at too!

Wow.

I have only scanned the thread.

No book please. tell me there is n ot a book?