Smoking in pregnancy

[GeraldineMumsnet]

Please can you do our super-quick survey - one question! thank you

so VS..... by that standard we could say; no parent should ever do extreme sports in case they die and their child loses a parent.

no parent should ever allow their child to fly, or be driven in a car for that matter as there is a potential for risk.

no parent should ever drink when around their children as it's endangering them unecessarily.

every parent does things that endanger their children to differing degrees, whether they like to admit it or not.

the increased risk of damage to a feotus from the mother smoking is minute..... i wonder is it greater or less than that child chances of dying or being seriously hurt in a car crash? is it greater or less than their chances of developing an illness related to baby feeding or weaning methods?

women giving bith take various forms of pain relief every day... some of which are known to have harmful effects on the baby such as pethidine, yet that is universally accepted as ok, because it helps the mother to cope... and it's therefore considered a calculated risk.

well the occasional fag helps me to cope, and it's a risk i'm willing to take.

'Do you really need to go on the bus with two children and the shopping when pregnant?'

seriously, are you for real?

you actually think i can just sit on my bum for 9 months and refuse to do anything?

life goes on, shopping has to be gotton and kids have to be brought to playschool, doctors, friends, etc.

who said anything about delivery drivers... i live in the middle of the west of ireland... if i want shopping i have to go and get it!

my partner does an awful lot to help me, but he's not here 24/7 as he's earning money to keep us..... my children don't disappear when he goes out the door, they still need to be dealt with, as do the day to day jobs that have to be done.

lucky for you if you live the type of life where others do the fetching and carrying for you.... most of us don't.

The thing is, PinkTulips, heavy lifting is surely more likely to endanger the mother than the baby. The baby probably benefits from a fit mother.

It's interesting to see that all those who are shouting about misogyny and "policing" seem to be smokers.

Yes, I am for real.
Get a taxi, or learn to drive or shop on the internet or do it when your partner is home. Most general day-to-day life doesn't involve heavy lifting.

"well the occasional fag helps me to cope, and it's a risk i'm willing to take." You're not taking that risk though, you're passing that risk onto your child.

lol FAQ... care to share the definition with me because i haven't a clue?

VS, i'm glad solutions are so simple in your world, the reality for me is that taxis cost money, shops where we lived then didn't deliver and we had no car.

i have learned to drive now, while pregnant,i'm sure i put this baby at far more risk of harm while i was learning than i have done by smoking... again a calculated risk i had to take for the benefit of my family as we now live 5 miles from the closest shop... i still have to lift heavy shopping into the car and lift a heavy toddler into the trolly, etc. i'm under a physio for my back and have been told that i run the risk of the damage being permantent, yes the greater danger is to me, but a mother who can't lift her kids and can't do alot of simple activities with them isn't exactly providing the best care possible.

day to day life here certainly does involve heavy lifting, and there is no slack given simply because i'm pregnant. people in shops just stand and watch while i haul heavy bags around and recently while dropping dd at playschool ds was whinging to be picked up and i couldn't.... another mother walked past and said 'oh, poor X... is mommy not picking you up, poor baby'

i fully accept i run risks by smoking, i know those risks and feel bad enough about them but i hardly think they're the only risks i take when pregnant, they're simply th ones that the general public feel entitled to judge me about.

They're simply the ones that are avoidable and are the main ones that risk your child's health.

Why is lifting harmfull to pregnancy? I realise it hurts the back and can cause injury etc and so hurt the mother and effect the preganancy in that way, by why can it hurt a baby?

plenty of risks are avoidable.

a mother who truely wanted to eliminate all risks to her unborn child would live on only organically produced fresh food for the duration to avoid the risks posed by pesticides, fertalisers and processing techniques.

she'd go live as far from the cities and towns as possible to avoid breathing the noxious gases spewed out by cars and factories.

she'd drink only water and avoid any artificially produced shampoos, potions, lotions, cleansers... only natural botanicals for this lady.... god forbid any of the chemicals from beauty products seep into her skin and travel to the baby and in 20 years time are discovered to cause a .005% increase int he child risk of contracting some disease.

did you spend your pregnancies like that VS? because otherwise you took avoidable risks too...

done

well if the mother does enough damage to her back that she has to be hospitalised and medicated i doubt it's great for the baby TD... don't know if you can actually hurt the baby lifting though.... feels like it some days when i can feel my tummy go rock hard and sore trying to lift ds into the shopping trolly though!

VS, don't be daft, very few p/g women can be waited on hand and foot for nine months. Driving is a far more immediate risk to the mother and unborn baby than moderate drinking or even smoking, yet no-one demands that expectant mothers refrain from getting behind the wheel.

There is a HUGE difference between criticising mis-treatment of a child and attacking or condemning pregnant women for behaviour that may increase the risks of her baby being unhealthy. While a foetus is a foetus it is part of the mother's body and her behaviour is no-one's business but hers, as long as it is legal. Once it is a separate human being, then outsiders are entitled to comment or intervene.

Otherwise you are making pregnant women into lesser beings who have fewer rights and less autonomy than other adults. People do all sorts of things of which I disapprove all the time, but it's their right to decide to do them.

It's part of an attitude that eventually leads to the Daily Mail condemning a mountain climber who dies on Everest because she was a mother - never heard any similar attacks on men who have died in the attempt.

baffled by this conversation.
"the increased risk of damage to a feotus from the mother smoking is minute" WHAT?????
For each cigarette you smoke, the blood flow to your child is disrupted for roughly 15 seconds, making underdevelopment and low birth weight common. In fact, smoking accounts for between 20-30% of low birth weight babies, 14% of premature births and 10% of all infant deaths. If this information isn't enough to help you stop smoking, the risk of cot death and stillbirth are also greatly increased if you smoke whilst pregnant; while after the birth, your child may well suffer from damaged airways, breathing problems and even asthma.

done.
I agree with PT.

I suffered from placental abruption with my first pregnancy and was told that it's possible this kind of thing can be caused by strain to certain muscles.
It has also been shown to increase risk of pre-term birth.

Moving house to stop yourself breathing in any fumes is not quite as simple as not putting a cigarette to your mouth.

Also, as Turtle said, the risks associated with smoking during pregnancy are huge. As, it seems, are the excuses made for not stopping.

The sooner society stops pandering to the poor ickle wickle smokers who, oops-a-daisy went and got themselves addicted to smoking and now the poor ickle things don't want to give up (because, let's be honest and stop beating around the bush, if you really want to give up, you will) the better. Like I said, I don't see the same argument for heroin addicts who are pregnant continuing to use heroin, and their addiction is a lot more physical than a smoker's.

Also, Edam, I'm not saying being waited on hand and foot, just not carrying a ton of shopping on a bus with two children.
How often do we really need to go shopping? I shop monthly, most people could find someone to take them shopping once a month.

I only have enough space in this house for 2 weeks shopping maximum, new house won't be any different.

don't have space in the fridge for much milk, but we go through loads, so need to buy a lot reguarly.

your kids must have a lovely fresh diet VS

or do you grow your own fruit and veg..... not exactly an option when a mother is living in an second floor apartment.

speaking of which.... should i have stayed inside for 9 months with dd unlless someone was there to carry the baby in the buggy down the stairs for me? not exactly a healthy lifestyle for her to be cooped up in a flat 24/7 because mommy was pregnant.

Stop avoiding the point.

The point is smoking when pregnant can seriously harm your baby, it is not comparable to fresh air and homegrown vegetables fgs.

You chose to put your child through that.

End of.

About the back, lifting and so on.

I agree of course it's important to have well women to look after the family and so avoidance of heavy lifting is an ideal - but in the wider view women have birthed for ever and yet had to farm and maintain fires and lift their own and other children so I personally don't think it can be used as an example of risk taking in the same way smoking can. Lugging and pulling and pushing is within the range of the healthy adult ,as demonstrated by any pregnant mother of a toddler. We are designed to withstand these physical strains [although my flab hold me back ].

Tribal women have smoked herbs through the ages, but actually more safetly than we do because they don't have the additives that a processed product has, such as formaldyhyde etc.

Our bodies are not designed to deal with that strain as demonstated by the fact the placenta cannot filter these chemicals.

I do feel sad when I see someone smoking in pregnancy. I did everything I could to do the right thing when I was pregnant and yet I have lost an ?extreme premature? baby, had a ?very premature? baby who suffers from chronic asthma due to being born too fast for steroids and from the intubation and now I have an early baby who had IUGR. It feels so unfair that I struggle so much yet someone who smokes or does other things to put their pregnancy at risk has everything happen right for them.

I would never dream of saying something to anyone though, it?s my problem.

Tree, the small baby thing annoys me. Firstly they don?t know what it means to have a small baby, it?s not just that they?re small and secondly people don?t realise that smaller babies are harder to deliver. I?ve had people look at me like I?m mad when I?ve said that, I can hear them thinking ?yeah, you?ve only delivered a tiny baby, what would you know?? but if you look at Bliss or speak to someone who?s delivered both they will tell you the bigger they are the easier they are. I guess it?s only right as a small baby isn?t ready to be delivered (or the body thinks so) so the body doesn?t work properly with the baby.

That was a tricky one for me. I'll admit I do judge when I see a pregnant woman smoking. I'm not sure what good public condemnation of those struggling to quit would do but I do reserve the right to be disgusted at someone who brazenly does not care that they are hurting their unborn child. I worry that removing the stigma would make it acceptable and put more babies at risk.
Before my first pregnancy I was a heavy smoker. As soon as I found out I was pregnant I never smoked again. I would like to say it was willpower but once the morning sickness kicked in the smell made me feel extremely sick so it wasn't an effort to quit.

I still find the "it's my body till baby is born, ergo any judgement is an encroachment of my personal rights" argument a bit disingeneous.

For example, should an unborn child be injured or killed due to third party negligence - eg mum slips on spilled oil in the supermarket - would the argument seriously be that only the hurt to the mother was relevant?

I am unconvinced.

"you made your decision. Other women might decide that the risks are acceptable"

Is anyone here saying risks from smoking during pregnancy are "acceptable"? Really?

All I see is excuses a la "Oh I was dying from the guilt, but was so addicted to cigarettes that I couldn't quit while pregnant".

And sorry but no, the addiction is not that strong. You decide not to smoke, and you don't light another cigarette.

You do put on quite a bit of weight, but hey, that's what breastfeeding is for