Smoking in pregnancy

[GeraldineMumsnet]

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Agree with what FAQ said. Support is what is needed, by condemning someone you are likely to make them feel defensive and worse, rather than helping them address and act upon their smoking.

Who said the condemnation was meant to "help"?

Since when is condemnation by society of an unacceptable individual act meant to help?

I used to smoke, by the way, and understand the pleasure & the addiction.

I would never judge a smoker (personal choice and all that) but God help any friend of mine who smokes while pregnant. Partly thanks to society's collective condemnation of smoking while pregnant, these are few and far in between.

Cote makes a good point. Taboo is most effective in these sorts of matters. My mum smoked when she was expecting me (but not in the home after I was born) and expressed surprise when I was diagnosed as asthmatic. Really mum, that shocks you?

I reserve the right to condemn people. Is that different to judging them?

well what a lovely friend you obviously are then

"god help them" - why?? You'd stand there and lecture them on stuff they probably already know??

I stopped smoking when I fell pg with DS1 - didn't find it too hard to do, and yes I used (in my mind) judge those I saw smoking while pg.

DS2 I did have one pack on one day in the middle of the pg - after a near break-up with exH in the middle of it (obviosly he was still my DH then).

DS3 - I tried, I really wanted to quit, I managed to cut down dramatically but I couldn't quite, the sleepless nights worrying over the damage I was doing to my baby, the "looks" I got from people when I was out and about, none of that helped me to quit. I'm not proud that I smoked, of course I'm not, but I thank my lucky stars that none of my friends condemned me for the fact that I did smoke during my 3rd pg.

You think your friends didn't condemn you.

no I know they didn't condemn me - I don't need friends like that. They did support me and help me (nicely) to cut down, but they didn't judge or condemn me.

there were a couple of people who I know and speak to regularly who condemned me, but my friends didn't - quite frankly I don't have time in my life for friends that are looking to condemn me for things which I know aren't good.

FAQ - fuck off.

Just testing.

IAteMakkaPakka - how old are you? If you were young in the 70s, the dangers of smoking in pregnancy weren't as clear as they are now. It was common - in fact my mother told me doctors used to offer you a cigarette in the consulting room.

Why wasn't there an option for 'other people could try minding their own farking business?' There's a lot of underlying misogyny in all this bullying of pregnant women.

Done

edam, I was born in 81.

As for bullying pregnant women, how about their kids?

Are we going to condone getting pissed, x-raying yourself and surviving on a diet of liver and swordfish in order that we're not seen to be bullying pregnant women? FGS it's for the sake of the kids who are being born with health problems as a result of their mother's selfish lifestyle choices.

I think there would be something wrong with a society that didn't condemn people who behave irresponsibly.

Agree with you, solidgold. 'Policing Pregnancy' by (IIRC) Sheena McDonald or Meredith or something is a fascinating read on this topic.

I think saying you are damning pregnant women 'for the sake of their kids' is just a cover-up for being smug and showing off about how great you are, tbh. Because it's a. none of your business and b. pointless - harassing smokers just makes them stressed and more likely to reach for a fag.

Look at your own faults before worrying about anyone else's.

Thing is, plenty of children born to women who smoked while PG dont have asthma. They don't have ongoing health problems. Same goes for babies born to mothers who drink, eat soft cheese or raw meat, take ecstasy and ketamine etc. And some babies are born with major problems despite their mothers having done everything according to the lastest guildelines and been in perfect health.
ONe possible cause of birth defects is men's alcohol and drug use, but men ar not nagged about this in the same way. There are no campaigns telling men to stop drinking and taking drugs if they are TTC, or that they should stop smoking/doing drugs at home if their partners are PG.
There is a lot of misogyny in the various rules and restrictions aimed at pregnant women: they all start with the assumpton that women are less important than the foetuses they carry, that women are too stupid to make accurate risk assessments, and that their behaviour must be controlled by others.

wot edam and solidgold said

I think your last post is a bit unfair edam. As I mentioned earlier, I am asthmatic which is likely to be a result of my mum's smoking during pregnancy, as nobody else in my family has any history of hypersensitivity. It impairs my life in many ways to the extent that it has affected my career and I have to take daily medication. So maybe my views are a little biased. I don't think I am being smug, or that I have anything to be smug about.

Yes, I agree it's none of my business, but then could we extend that to say, for example, the mother who lives next door harms her baby by abusing or neglecting it is also none of my business? Or wouldn't we all be up in arms shouting for social services?

Some things are pretty indefensible. And I'm pissed off that you called me smug.

And faults include officiousness, btw.

I resent your implication that by finding smoking in pregnancy unacceptable I am making "the assumpton that women are less important than the foetuses they carry, that women are too stupid to make accurate risk assessments, and that their behaviour must be controlled by others".

I just think doing something proven to be harmful is wrong. So shoot me.

You are pissed off with your mother, no need to extend that to every other woman. And get some perspective - of course SS should know about abuse or neglect or violence! It's hardly on the same scale.

If you want to rant about your mother, who was probably not as well-informed as you are, then start a thread about it. Don't use your experience to condemn perfect strangers about whom you know nothing.

Btw, there has been a huge explosion in the prevalence of allergies such as atopic asthma since the 70s - no-one knows why although there are several competing theories. You are right, your asthma may well be linked to maternal smoking. But it may not be. Dh is the only person in his family ever to have asthma as far as we know (assuming his great-grandad didn't have what we'd now call asthma in 1890 or something).

I mean, smoking has been dropping since the 70s, yet the rates of atopic asthma (AFAIK) aren't falling. So it's clearly not the whole picture.

I think asthma and the rising rates of it have been shown to have more to do with excessive use of chemical-laden cleaning products, central heating and man-made fibres in the homes than with anything else, Makkapakka. Want to blame your mother and all women for doing too much housework?

Agree with edam and sgb.

Reminds me of the suggestion in (I think) some American states that women of childbearing age should not be drinking or smoking just n case they accidentally got PG.
And stress in PG can effect the baby quite badly too

edam and sg those are all fair points and as I said I am biased. I think a lot of what is being criticised as misogyny is actually in place to protect those who are less informed about certain risks. So there's a line to be drawn between those who smoke, for example, because they don't know it's harmful, and those who do know the risks but choose to continue. And for the benefit of the first group there's a lot of campaigning/publicity out there to inform them, which then makes the second group feel "condemned".

I'll freely admit my personal experience has skewed my view on this but isn't personal experience often what shapes our opinions about everything?

I'll add that I am the first to shout down anyone who adds to a Weaning thread with "It didn't do me any harm!"