Would you ban smacking? Take our two-question-takes-less-than-10-seconds poll (and be entered into this week's comp)

[carriemumsnet]

Tomorrow Parliament will debate whether to outlaw smacking completely. The current law allows parents (and some carers) to discipline children using "reasonable punishment" but outlaws punishment that leaves physical marks or causes mental harm. The last attempt to impose a full ban on smacking was defeated in 2004 .

We've put together a quick (and we mean quick) two question poll to see what Mumsnetters think about this and will hopefully be able to make your views known to the world first thing tomorrow.

For more info on the story click here

Everyone who takes part in the poll will be entered into this week's competitions to win one of 3 sets of Walker picture books worth £100 each, a week's luxury ski accommodation in France or one of 4 Fisher-Price doll and stroller sets. For more info on comp prizes click here

And just in case you need the poll link again it's here

Once you've done the poll please add your views on the subject here (as if mumsnetters need any encouragement to make their views known ).

Thanks

MNHQ

I think smacking out of desperation to prevent someone else or that child being injured, or in the heat of the monent, is actually preferable to doing it in cold blood as a 'punishment' or in a planned way.

The whole point is to stop something worse happening. I have smacked in both situations, well not cold bloodedly but as a way of saying 'Jeez I am so angry with you!' in a vain hope it would have an effect on behaviour - it instantly was obvious that it didn't, and it made me feel quite sick to see that it had been pointless. I avoid that like the plague since then.

But the smacking in order to prevent catastrophe I do think has a place - it isn't desirable and I;m sure those of us with really well adjusted, well behaved children, who never really get that far, might see it as totally unnecessary. I know I was that 'good' child who never really warranted smacking.
But my son is not, he is a wild little thing, and quite often he would be dangerous. I can't even remember what he used to do now but it was pretty nuts. And I don't think it really bothered him being smacked when he was acting like that - it was when I misunderstood his motives and he wasn't trying to be horrid but I got it wrong, that he was most upset. I think some boys especially arte very very physical and throw themselves at you/around the house with absolutely no regard for safety etc. So it is almost water off a duck's back.

but like I said he is older now and I have found better ways of dealing with these outbursts. Hitting him makes me feel quite ill really, now that he can communicate and has better control of his own little body.

I pray I will never hit the younger one, and that I have somehow learnt how to be a better mum since then. I think I have. It is generally about the way I am feeling rather than the way they behave.

Adding to that that his wild behaviour in itself is probably my fault or a result of my depression, bad parenting etc.

My mother once likened it to a tiger batting its cub when it bites her too hard in play fighting. She said it was very natural to hit out (gently, mind) at a small creature attacking you. She never smacked us but certainly got angry.

She didn't have boys either

You know, I don't think there is anything wrong with "scaring the innocent vulnerable parents who are at the end of their tether when they resort to a smack" I was scared when I smacked dd. I was horrified at myself (even though it was just a completely unconscious reaction to severe pain) and I'm glad I was - I think any parent that isn't horrified at their own behaviour if and when they lose it enough to smack deserves social services intervention. But that doesn't mean I don't sympathise and empathise with those of you (us) who have occasionally lost it. Because let's face it, if you smack your child in anger it's more about your anger than about anything your child has done, and I think admitting that is the first step to being a good and responsible parent - otherwise you are no better than the man who insists that his abused wife "drove him to it"

I am against a ban on smacking. I fail to see how a ban will protect children and what benefits there will be to society.

Parents who use smacking as a form of abuse will continue to do so, a ban will not stop them.

Decent parents who have smacked their toddlers bottom when they have run out in front of a car will probably stop if it becomes illegal but who exactly will that benefit?

"decent parents who have smacked will probably stop if it becomes illegal but who will that benefit"

It will benefit the child... that's who.

I think there might well be a risk that this would stop people from asking for help when they need it most. If things are going really wrong for you, and you know you need help, but you are frightened that if you admit to smacking your child (even once) you might have your children removed from you because a smack is now illegal, would you go for that help? I think a significant number of people would not.

I'd like to see the evidence that banning smacking helps good parenting. My children hit each other really quite a lot. Should that be illegal too?

Done
FYI it's not 'reasonable punishment' it's 'reasonable chastisement', an undefined Victorian term - I had to dig around quite a bit to see if there is a definition, once, for an article I was writing. There isn't.

good point nooka - people are talking a lot about people with PND being more likely to seek help if smacking was illegal. I think it would have exactly the reverse effect - people would be frightened to admit that they'd smacked their child.

I would support a ban on smacking.

Ultimately people will continue to do what they want in their own homes, because there's no-one there to tell them not to. But away from home it would have an impact. I hate seeing people whacking their kids in public, it makes me really upset. We've all seen it - a toddler playing up, or a baby screaming, followed by a yell and sharp slap from an irate parent. Followed, invariably, by the child screaming even more. At the moment I can only watch, and hope that this scene of violence isn't just the tip of the ice-berg. It makes me want to cry to be honest. If smacking was banned, then at least these poor children would be spared part of their daily abuse, as I doubt parents would risk breaking the law.

on the one hand, I don't believe it works, all it does is teach a child that when you are unhappy with someone's behaviour, you smack them. Then you tell them off for smacking the kid who just nicked their toy

BUT... I smacked dd1 once when she ran into the road. She never did it again

i have 7 children and i have never smacked them or threatened to in fact i dont use threats of any kind in that way
i will disipline my child by taking away something or putting them on a chair till they calm down if needed
simple i dont shout they dont shout
we have a house of democracy even if the 4 yo has issues we have a family meeting and talk about it and its resolved
i never had a family to smack them i had one to love and raise as good citizens
im not a saint i get annoyed but deal with things in a non agrressive manner

oh god no..don't ban smacking
It's one of the few areas i can feel smug about

you sound very nice and sane disneystar. I'm very pro-discussion etc to the extent that dds have tended to call referendums (eg on whether to have ice cream for pudding) and I gently remind them that our house is not a democracy. it's a benign dictatorship

I think banning smacking completely would certainly raise awareness of the issue (because of the publicity it would garner) but I don't think it would eliminate child abuse within the home because it would be impossible to enforce. Domestic violence continues for precisely this reason. However, if somebody is smacking their child to the extent that marks are being left, then it is to be hoped that outside agencies would notice and take action accordingly.

But short of a fanciful reality (I hope!) in which the Government make it compulsory for CCTV cameras to be installed into every single home, then any degree of violence within the home will remain unchecked. However, a ban would enable public smacking to be picked up on street cameras.

I am sorry but I think I am missing something here, why would you have to hit/smack a child if it is running onto a road or in some other way endangering themselves on or near a road?

Would you not see that they are running onto the road, then proceed to pull them off the road?

Are you trying to show them what it would feel like to be hit by a car (smack in the head, shoulder, arm, leg, here little Johnny feel that and then imagine what it would feel like if it had been one of the cars hitting you. I bet that a 3 year old aint gonna get that).

Some of you say that you want to shock them, well you shocked me by choice of punishment. Do you need think that by you (probably) screaming his/her name in sheer terror proceeded by pulling him/her off the road is going to shock him/her enough? Does he/she really on top of that horrible experience also have to be physically punished.

The ski-ing holiday. It says for a family it doesn't mention the size of the family. Does that mean that my averagely large family could all actually go?

I thought it said smoking not smacking!

I always said I wouldn't smack, but Tom does get a smack when he lifts his legs up and slams them into me when i'm changing him. I give him a warning first. And he gets a smack if he is doing something dangerous or hurting another child.

Slight tangent here but I'm sure you all saw the news story recently about 1 in 5 teachers being in favour of bringing back the cane...by contrast only 1 in 10 headteachers were in favour of the same. I wondered if the difference in viewpoint in these two groups was due to the teachers' and heads' respective distances from the frontline? I know the argument about hitting children teaches them violence but who can honestly say that our culture hasn't seen a huge rise in youth-violence over the last ten years or so. It's interesting that many school teachers would like to reinstate corporal punishment yet at the same time, there remains a very strong sentiment against smacking.

I wonder how many of the mums who smack their own children would tolerate a teacher doing it ( for the same reasons they do).

I am totally for a complete ban against any smacking of any child.

Assault on kids is LESS acceptable than on adults imo.

And assault be a relative is clearly worse than assault by a stranger.

Smacking is abhorrent - it is ASSAULT plain and simple and should be illegal.

There was a debate on the Radio 2 lunchtime show about the cane issue - callers phoned in with their views: one guy told his ds's head that he had his permission to cane his ds when his ds was on the school's premises but the head told he was not allowed so the dad said, 'give the cane to me and I'll do it'!! Other callers had different views - similar to this thread.

(Waves at tsm!!!)

OK.... I filled in the survey...

I can't wait for our shiny new topic and my skiing holiday, if I win!

(Although I am still in doubt whether mine worked seeing as I am in not in ol' Blighty)

oh - no didn't mean to post here - how did that happen????

Abuse in any form is a terrible thing and should not be tolerated.
Abuse is already illegal in this country.

Occassional smacks in extreme circumstances are different from abuse.

People on this thread have described how being smacked can damage children mentally and can lead them to 'living in fear'.
I have never smacked my own DD, but I was smacked by my parents. They only ever did it a handful of times and in extreme circumstances, but it certainly got the point across.
I never repeated the actions that led to the smacks and I still remember them to this day.
However, I never felt fearful of my parents or that they had abused me in any way.
I don't consider that I was in any way mentally or physically harmed by the experience.
It seems to me that this is another example of the British nanny state and the government bringing in over-controlling laws.
I fully agree that certain children need protecting, but the chances are that this will not protect those most in need. The parents who abuse their children will continue to do so regardless of this or any other law.