what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

I think that's an excellent idea Thinks - stepping away - I'm on the "don't delete the threads" side of the debate (very much so) but I think your comments are bang out of order.

I think (at least I hope) that I've been reasonably polite to FIS (and others) despite our differing opinions.

says the person who has posted nothing on this thread but personal attacks against me

it's time to step away if you start making personal attacks, Thinks.

seriously.

you've construed FIS's posts one way, and made that clear.

others have stated they did not construe her posts in a similar fashion.

have (finally) read this thread and i find the idea of a 'proffesional' being your fist port of call when you are feeling suicidal laughable.

i know there are excellent MH services in some parts of the UK,but in others there is nothing.i didnt even see a duty psychiatrist or MH nurse when i had attempted suicide and been rushed to A+E(a few years ago).and i have heard many horror stories about others in crisis trying to get help where i live

some of the posts on this thread are awful.

(Clarification: I was not saying Marina's idea about the Samaritans doing this was a bad idea - on the contrary -, rather that it would for various reasons be a bad idea to have this sort of facility on MN.)

(doing this = having a closed chat. gah)

I like the fact that people have different opinions thinkstoomuch - it's what makes mumsnet the place it is. And as I said, I'm sorry if my opinion offends people and it's why I never post on those threads.

I just think mumsnet HQ needs to have a think about how to deal with these sort of threads, that's all. I don't know the best way and I'm really not sure any of us are qualified to say what the best way might be but I've said what I think and I HAVE listened to other people and been interested in what they've said, even if it may not appear so.

I just posted as when I felt suicidal hearing others who had got through the same feelings helped me enormously.
I never posted a suicidal thread but Christ knows I've been here and it has taken the thoughts away.

Its not frequent. Its usually posters who are known and can be helped. Mn have intervened officially how many times?
We can urge Samaritans, GP whatever...
but this site has a massive wealth of mums/members with experience of this type...
if it didn't peope would not seek it out for emptying their lives onto...
you reap what you sow.
i think in view of the positives ( first suicide situation (amazingly recovered) that I recall on here springs to mind) then mn as a whole has a lot to be proud of.
the posting is not just of ghoulish curtain twitching. In my case it is always genuine... As I have been there and recovered.

have only got 1/3 through reading the thread but i wanted to add my perspective as someone who's been in difficult places and found it immensely helpful to talk through depression, depressive and suicidal thoughts online (although not here, and not on a "suicide thread").

i agree with objectivity that referring people to mental health services isn't the whole answer and that those services fail many people, for many reasons. personally, i've found that since i've given up on looking for help within the system, relying instead on sharing experiences with others online my mnetal health has come on in leaps and bounds and my resources for dealing with crises have increased immensely.

i don't think that effectively silencing people who are feeling suicidal and removing them from a support lifeline is a positive move at all. i'd be interested to know how many - if any - of the people who feel that such threads should be banned have been in a similarly desperate position.

i also wanted to add to wilf that your voice really stood out to me amongst the recent threads as one i would want to hear if i were the op on one of those threads.

Coming from a family that have had a lot of 'issues', I don't see the point is censorship but rather steering the poster to others better able to help... and surely a better deal and more supportive than posting a whole lot of support that falls on someone in a non receptive state???

A manic episode being experienced by someone suffering from bipolar disorder is a different kettle of fish to someone who needs to be brought back to some reality...

I think it would be a real shame if posters wgo're feeling this way aren't given the opportunity to express themselves on MN and receive support/advice.

As for FIS "attention seeking" etc. I'm not even going to give you the grace of a thought out reply. Those words make my blood boil.

I do risk assessments re suicide at least once a week at work. i think it would be great if sone of the people I speak to could ventilate on a forum like thi. FFS it may be their only outlet. And IME most of the more sensitive posters do advise to call the samaritans.

As for the posters who say very egocentrically " it makes me uncomfortable" well DON'T READ!!!! It's not actually about you, surprisingly!

completely agree with this comment on Soapbox's 20:09 post:-

"On the other hand those making a cry for help type bid, come to rely on someone 'saving' them. It's a risky business relying on a talk board for that kind of action - a more interesting thread somewhere on the board or a less than exciting title and ... well help might never get to you."

It is this exact scenario that really really worries me.

The Samaritans are not 'professional help'; they are caring volunteers, just like any MNer who chooses to respond to a thread from a desperately depressed person.

Replies will come from MNers who do have some professional training in mental health, and others who have felt like taking their own life at some point. There are also many lovely, sensible empathic MNers who always know the right thing to say.

It would be really wrong to cut off that source of immediate support because it is somehow 'inappropriate'.

A samaritan is supposed to listen and not advice. They are not allowed to share real life experiences of their own.

In fact, when interviewed to become a samaritan you are asked if you have ever experienced anything traumatic. If you have, you wont get the "job". They recon it will be too tempting to give own input if you have, or it will bring back memories you might not be able to cope with.

agree with you janni.

mn is a forum that offers support to parents. how can you turn off that support when its most needed?

Got to go now, but thanks for a really interesting and thought provoking thread x

WRT posters other than the OP on a thread concerning suicide, I think it's up to each individual whether they can post without becoming too emotionally entangled and with their boundaries firmly in place.

There is sometimes an air of rubbernecking, I think though this may be true, it is more likely that people get carried away on the highly emotional charge involved in such a matter. It's easy from a cynical POV to perceive genuine concern as morbid interest when a poster's emotions are doing the talking. This does seem to cause discomfort or concern to some people but I wouldn't think it good reason to delete such threads.

Personally, I have experienced suicide (not self, obviously) and on the one hand wouldn't it be fine and dandy if such a thing didn't exist? Particularly for those of us who have felt the repercussions. This is not realistic though, it does happen and I'm impressed at the sheer number of people who do care here. I don't believe with genuine heart and mind anyone would say anything that would harm. OTOH, the danger lies in rogue posters with no conscience.

MNHQ's call I think, as the potentially liable. I'd be more than happy to support any decision, if they feel the need to make one.

I am not sure what to say other than;

It was my choice to post on the thread and I was able to help in a RL way... I had a few MSN messages and emails asking if I knew the OP and as it happened, I did and I was able to get her details to MNHQ as they'd said they were getting police involved...

I couldn't have just not done that - but I didn't get so emotional about it that it was taking over my day; I helped, I did ALL I could and I moved on.

What's so wrong about that?

foxinsocks & slubber & JV, you are making it more complicated than it is.
Talking about 'right answers' or 'pharmaceutical treatment' misses the point.

We are dealing with people who are on the verge of ending it all,
all you have to do is to show compassion, listen, listen some more,
show them that someone cares, show some humanity.

Be a mensch. Is that really so difficult?

Just to give them a glimmer of hope that there is another way
and then, slubber, they can go and get professional help
that will hopefully resolve things in the long run.

I don't think MN can be held responsible for the emotional disturbance some people might experience after viewing upsetting threads: you have to take responsibility for yourself. And yes, there may be some people reading the suicide threads who are in a presuicidal state, and it might make them worse, but then anything might make them worse and it's not anyone else's fault. And the fact that some people feel a bit uncomfortable or a bit upset is their lookout, no one else's.
Because an equally likely possibility is someone reading a suicide thread, feeling fairly shitty him/herself and yet being strengthened by the support being given out (there is hope, there are nice people out there) and maybe informed by the practical advice (here's who to phone, here's how to make them take you seriously).

Oooh I don't know. I feel odd reading the suicide threads and I think some people do get too involved with the drama of it all.

I think it can take away some of the seriousness of the situation for the poster as well, when you feel suicidal its easy to forget the huge impact not being here anymore has. It doesn't matter how sad everyone is that you are dead, how many concerned mumsnetters there are - you will never know. Or you can distract yourself as you take the tablets or whatever.

IME Samaritans very unhelpful. Crisis team have no idea what to do with me. I have at times been very unsafe with self harm and had nothing done. Its not as simple as turning up at A&E but I do think there is huge value in having to leave the house to attend A&E.

I agree madamez

I agree madamez and I'm really not TRYING to be obtuse or upset people but don't you think that some people who post suicidal threads may not be able to take responsibility for themselves? And I just worry that they may not get the response they need?

another point is,as a mother it is very very scary to seek help in real life as there is the fear of having your children taken away.