MNHQ: Update on Image Uploads

[LilyMumsnet]

Hi all,

As you'll be aware, we've switched image uploads off this week whilst we've been building a filter that will automatically detect images that should not be appearing on our site. We've been consulting experts and have built a tool which utilises some widely-used image detection software.

This afternoon, we will release this tool and therefore we will turn image uploads back on. We can't go into detail about how the tool works for obvious reasons but if you do spot anything of concern please report and/or get in touch with us at [email protected] and we'll look into it straight away.

We'd avoid trying to limit the potential responses an OP could receive but will discuss the auto-delete suggestion. Thanks very much.

What do you mean by a 'subscriber', @NCfornow256?

@BeckyAMumsnet given the risks, even GP practices usually do not permit images of private parts to be sent, while allowing other images to be sent for patients to receive advice

Yes... there was a case in the US where a doctor asked a parent to send a photo of their child's genitals, it got uploaded to google cloud, google reported it as CSA and locked the guy out of his google account. The police recognised it as innocent but Google wouldn't reinstate the guy - loss of email address led to nightmare accessing bank accounts etc.

It's quite a well known story but demonstrates why it's probably not a good idea for an SM platform to allow posting of images for innocent reasons which could lead to such issues, and has hopefully made doctors cautious too.

loss of email address led to nightmare accessing bank accounts etc.

relying on any provider for an email address isn't very professional.

It was the parent who was locked out, not the doctor. Lots of people only use one email address don't they?

Personal or business ? (Admittedly I own my personal one anyway). But if you don't own the bit after the "@" then you are subject to someone elses T&Cs.

Anyway, we digress.

How does MNHQ ensure that any genital pictures they allow on their platform both have the consent of the owner to be posted and are not of a child?

Lots of good questions...

Hopefully they will at least decide to autodelete after a given time. Apart from the potential for mis-use, the idea that someone desperate for help might have a picture of their private parts on the internet forever is worrying, especially now that it isn't possible to access the site without accepting cookies (and therefore being tracked / exploited for advertising).

This was exactly the point I raised too.

I don’t see how MNHQ can ensure that at all. Getting the resident Inspector Vadget to eyeball a close up of a vulva doesn’t prove anything.

@LilyMumsnet your tool isn't working properly. CSA images again last night.

@andyouwillknowusbythetrailofdead did you report them last night ?
What was the response ?

There are threads reporting it all over Site Stuff and The Night Watch. Have HQ responded yet? I know they deleted the posts, some threads and banned the poster.

They probably should not allow anyone to post photos at night tbh and also not rely on volunteer mods overnight as apparently they can't see reports?

How can this happen again? A lot of posters saw the images and are understandably upset.

There's an explanation on another site stuff thread - it was a link with an image preview rather than an attached image.

Thank you for the reports and we are very sorry for those who’ve been affected. Our AI-based filtering system is designed to detect and hide inappropriate images but the attacker posted a link to site which contained such images. We are disabling the feature which shows image previews and have also disabled new registrations and images for now. We'll post more information as soon as there is anything else to say.

I saw one of the CSA images on a thread last night, it really upset me, it was I think a preview of a link. I clicked off the page as soon as I saw, by the time I went back to report the thread been hidden but enough people would have seen.

@LilyMumsnet @BeckyAMumsnet This is completely unacceptable, what more are you doing to stop this?

We've posted on the other Site stuff thread to update - our AI-based filtering system is designed to detect and hide inappropriate images but the attacker posted a link to site which contained such images. We are disabling the feature which shows image previews and have also disabled new registrations and images for now. We'll post more information as soon as there is anything else to say.

The trouble with the "not posting at night" idea is whose night are you talking about? MN is a worldwide forum so whilst it may be night in the UK and Europe it's day elsewhere and vice versa. Do MN ban Aussies from posting any photos whilst they are scrolling during their lunchbreak as it's a time when the UK are sleeping?

UK night because that is where the mods are. They are volunteer mods overnight (UK overnight). During the (UK) day, there are paid mods on the site.

Stuff gets through on FB. Our local paper online gets hit regularly.

Not really the greatest advert for "AI" is it ?

what's the excuse this time?? Seriously unacceptable, Mumsnet needs to take accountability

So that would mean that MNetters in the Southern Hemisphere would not be able to post Style and Beauty photos, property photos and all the other stuff that genuine posters share during the daytime, (whilst those in the Northern Hemisphere can), unless they are up at silly o clock in the morning. Maybe MN should pay for Mods there (so in effect have a 24 hour moderated site), rather than waste money on an AI filter which clearly doesn't work

@GutsyGertrude

The AI filter didn’t fail, because no one uploaded an image for it to check. The criminal attacking the site used a different method this time.

I agree, they absolutely shouldn't be relying on volunteer mods on here at all. I've been quite vocal about that elsewhere on the site. Mumsnet makes a lot of money out of our posts and traffic to the site. Moderation at the best of times is quite poor on here. Inflammatory and obviously fake posts get left up. Troll hunting, spam and mentioning certain other sites (not harmful sites either), seem the only things which get a quick reaction from HQ. To then rely on unpaid mods overnight is outrageous.

I also think we need to have the option to block other users. HQ have always resisted making that possible.

Since HQ doesn't seem to want to pay their mods overnight, then yes, the best option is to remove the option to post pictures when there are no properly paid mods on here. The volunteers can't even get reports, so you need to post publicly on The Night Watch overnight, which is not enough. Can we even report troll posts on there or is that troll hunting? It's absolutely not good enough.