MNHQ: Update on Image Uploads

[LilyMumsnet]

Hi all,

As you'll be aware, we've switched image uploads off this week whilst we've been building a filter that will automatically detect images that should not be appearing on our site. We've been consulting experts and have built a tool which utilises some widely-used image detection software.

This afternoon, we will release this tool and therefore we will turn image uploads back on. We can't go into detail about how the tool works for obvious reasons but if you do spot anything of concern please report and/or get in touch with us at [email protected] and we'll look into it straight away.

Clearly nothing has changed as someone has now posted photos of the inside of her vagina asking if it looks normal 🙄

I've actually just reported that one!

It actually blows my mind. How on earth is that allowed and how can anyone possibly think it's a good idea. I imagine if a man posted a picture of his penis with herpes, or asked if his ball sack looked normal it would be swiftly removed and he'd be banned.

So the AI allowed a porn pic through, or did it not and then was overridden by a moderator?

If the AI let it through then it’s not fit for purpose.

There should be an outright ban on posting photos of genitals under the banner of seeking medical advice.
Definitely! Anyone posting those needs to see a doctor for more than one reason.

@LilyMumsnet can MN put a stop to these photos?

I've mentioned/complained about it before and they said something along the lines of they're not doing anything wrong and it's just a normal body part etc. Ridiculous. Even GP surgerys tell you to never send them intimate photos so why on earth would anyone think it's a good idea on a site that can be seen by millions of people. Especially given what's happened recently!

Thank you for the update @LilyMumsnet .
It must of been a absolute nightmare to deal with.

I wonder if it would be easier all round to just not allow photos to be posted when it's only the nightwatch team on?
They all ready have their work cut out with all the spam, bots and general weirdos .
So during NW hrs either no photos at all or post photos and they will be reviewed and uploaded if they are ok once mnhq are back in the saddle and have been fortified with several strong brews.

Yes...maybe the initial AI filter is aimed specifically at CSA images rather than porn, or maybe a mod allowed it as a medical image?

Hopefully they can get filters whiv( categorise images according to whether they're illegal CSA, other illegal images, 'legal porn' or 'innocent' - while I'd agree with others that we really don't need any genital pictures on this forum, the way in which MNHQ deals with them should presumably differ (CSA - dealt with someone with specific training, report to police etc ; 'innocent' - block image, communicate with poster, no bans unless they repeat, that kind of thing)

Or maybe just get some paid staff?

Still no update on any proper paid moderation being brought in for overnights then?

I really don't want to accidentally view pictures of people's private parts. I don't care if it's not illegal, I just don't want to see it. If the moderators / software are allowing it through on the basis that it is supposedly 'medical' (debatable I'd say), couldn't they at least automatically amend the thread title so no one accidentally clicks on it? Not all thread titles are clear about what the content is.

Ideally they should block posts of that nature and advise the poster to go to the doctor, but I daresay the clicks are helpful in terms of advertising revenue.

The site needs either paid moderation overnight or no image uploads overnight. Bad actors will continue to target a site like this and AI image moderation is not enough.

@LilyMumsnet Please can you let us know how people posting photos of their vulvas/anuses/breasts for ‘medical reasons’ evades the shiny new AI filter?

Or are you relying on human moderators to view them first (now there’s a job I don’t want) and allow them past the filter?

It would also be helpful to hear how MNHQ believe these kind of photos differ from porn trolling. Could, say, a new user post a photo of ‘their’ vulva asking if it looks normal and actually a man has created a fake account and posted an intimate photo of his ex-partner in order to shame her?

That's a really good point about trolling... There don't appear to be any preemptive safeguards at all.

Even if they are genuine, I worry for the mental state of someone who would do that, and suspect they may be vulnerable. Not to mention that it makes the site a bit of a laughing stock IMO.

I can think of no good reason that images of private parts should be allowed to pass any filters, no matter what the settings.

I believe MNHQ’s previous explanation of allowing posters to post explicit photos was that ‘it’s blurred out’ and the thread title ‘contains warnings’ and the last line of (wholly inadequate) defence ‘you don’t have to click on it’.

With that in mind, could a poster post a photo of a vulva from a screenshot of a porn photo asking if it looks normal compared to theirs which they think looks the same?

How does the AI filter differ that from porn trolling?

I may be wrong, but I'm not sure that the software could tell a close-up of a vulva from the fake Rothko on my friend's living room wall.

We understand why some people feel uncomfortable with intimate images being shared, but we want MNers to feel able to ask for advice about sensitive health issues - and sometimes images can genuinely help with that. We also recognise that, for whatever reason, some people might not feel able to seek advice elsewhere (though we always advise seeing a medical professional where possible!). That’s why we don’t have a blanket ban on these posts. Instead, we review the information we have to be as sure as we can be that they’re shared for the right reasons. If we believe someone isn’t being genuine, we’ll remove the post right away and if not deleting, we’ll usually move these types of posts to the relevant board if they’re not there already.

These posts are being flagged by our filters and are always reviewed by us first, so there’s an extra layer of checks in place. We also mark these images as sensitive and will add a warning to the thread title where appropriate. Please do keep reporting anything you’re concerned about as we're happy to review.

@BeckyAMumsnet , is there any way that sensitive / medical posts could be kept behind the paywall? So the poster wouldn't have to be a subscriber, but the posts would only be accessible by subscribers? That way there's less risk of some vulnerable person's private images being accessed by those treating them, and potentially sharing them, as porn / a joke, and also less incentive for someone to post something for sinister reasons?

Alternatively, could they at least be automatically deleted after a certain period?

Good lord. Imagine being the poor member of the moderation team who has to inspect a close up of an MNer’s vulva or anus to determine whether it’s legit.

Inspector Vadget

That effectively would mean you would have to subscribe for advice if you wanted to post (and you would only get advice from subscribers).

Which is an existential question.

@SerendipityJane , if you read my post, I didn't say that the OP should have to subscribe.

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