Update from MNHQ addressing the recent images posted on the site

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
There have been a number of threads discussing what happened re the posting of CSA images on site and so I want to be absolutely clear: we would never seek to shut down reasonable criticism and we're taking on board all the feedback and will be carefully considering how we can improve our procedures and moderation to prevent this happening again.

As a temporary measure, we have suspended all image posting and will soon be implementing AI filters to flag illegal/disturbing images before they appear on the site. We’re also liaising with external specialists to see if there are any further tools we can employ to help us prevent this from happening again in the future. We reported it to the police first thing the morning after the attack and we have a follow up meeting with them tomorrow.

It's also pretty clear from what we can see behind the scenes that there is an ongoing, coordinated effort from trolls to further inflame these discussions, and cause as much disruption as possible. We are taking steps to remove bad faith actors, but we know this can be frustrating for those who just want to express your views about what happened. If you come across any posts that seem designed to stir up more conflict rather than contribute constructively, please do report them - your reports really help us to act swiftly. Many thanks for your patience while we work to sort this out.

It was silly to assume nobody had brought up a contentious issue before.

It was even sillier not to bother looking before smirkily proclaiming there had been no such threads.

Silly to find the threads for yourself and still stick by the silly statement that there were "none."

Silly to then change your argument to say the number you found with a filtered search didn't count as many and therefore you were still right.

Silly to be an adult and not be able to say "fair enough, sorry."

There was no ad.hom.

From the BBC article:

"I don't believe this horrible incident would have been prevented had it happened in office hours with our usual moderation team in London," she said.

So... you're saying your usual mods would not have responded swiftly on being notified via the usual report buttons and shut this down instantly, and that it would still have gone on over a period of approximately five hours?

I mean, that is not exactly a glowing review of the paid moderation team.

I think Julia would be the bad actor but Liz would get banned instead

I think she means the illegal images would still have been seen by some posters.

@JaneJeffer Julia would probably get herself banned after posting many well balanced messages by becoming frustrated by some of the Anne's on this thread and unleashing a torrent of plain speaking.

Thank you, I agree with all this.

Our reasonably small forum I modded on we do have banners which change. Also on the front page which mods were online. It worked well.

The naughty step. Three strikes and you were out.

I remember when Mumsnet was hacked by a teenager the courts gave him 200 hours community service. That hole was plugged.

They'll have to be fussier who they let in, have a probation period before links, pictures can be posted.

I very much doubt, if there was a paid moderator online, with full powers, able to receive reports directly, rather than relying on the NW to manually receive notice of the images and the threads involved - from the few posters who were even aware of the NW, ie, and remembered to seek their board out - as many posters would have been subjected to this horror, and for a period of close to five hours.

What I found slightly extraordinary in this whole thing is to discover that there were no member of senior management contactable at night. So people on very high salaries (effectively millions in Justine’s case) thought they could just go home and not think of the business until morning time.

I never really come on at night but occasionally do in the early morning, like 5AM, if I can’t sleep. The site has always been carnage at night, almost unusable, with loads of strange threads and weird advertisements in active.

They could easily just shut the site down 11-6 or similar. It is not compulsory to be 24/7. Of course some may be disappointed, but it is a commercial site, not the NHS or fire brigade.

@cranberrytart - for sure. There's 2 aspects, both of which need addressing - one is the prefiltering, which is a reasonable priority at this point. The other is to improve round the clock availability of mods with the authority and availability to quickly block, stop images or whatever is needed. I don't disagree this should have been done sooner but at this point it takes time to implement.

Shutting the site in response should absolutely NOT be a response. If that's the aim of the bad actors involved, then you don't give them what they want.

@JustineMumsnet you do need to get a grip of the moderation though. It's gone downhill over the last 8 months with stuff being allowed to stand that shouldn't be given the time of day. Lies and disinformation are rife with threads by bad actors being allowed to stay even after the op has been banned. This is just another example, but one that has got your attention because it's an attack on you. Please look deeper at what's been happening on your site.

Oh god that’s even worse, the link I see was trending in active in the reported thread

Yes, I am astonished that they have been so quick to identify that there are bad faith actors trying to whip up anti-MN sentiment when moderation around other bad faith actors seeking to whip up a frenzy around other topics has been so poor.

If MNHQ have the ability to quickly identify these posters and deal with them, why haven’t they been?

Absolutely I totally agree with you and @LIttledrummergirl . Some of us have bern shouting for months about this, but we are basically told to keep quiet.

Yup. There’s awful stuff going on. Total misinformation. And for years.

A thousand times this. I've been appalled at some of the stuff that has been allowed stand on the site in the past year or so.

And not just that stuff has stood, the tone of some the emails I’ve received in response to reports has been unhelpful to say the least.

Unhelpful in what way?

Dismissive and rude. Almost laughing at me. Left me in no doubt that the person in question agreed with the offensive statement posted.
Has happened several times related to biphobia, Islamophobia, homophobia and racism.
This is not the supportive place I joined when I started TTC.

Ah okay not threads I engage in. Sorry you feel let down.

Again, it's noticeable that controversial stuff tends to remain while it's driving clicks and whole threads sometimes only get deleted once the activity lessens ... the "Where's Kate?" ones with their ghastly speculation come to mind

A PP asked why, if HQ can move quickly on perceived attacks on them, they don't do the same with attacks on posters, but of course the latter won't have the same effect on the bottom line which any business will naturally want to protect

Driving clicks, I've suspected for some time. Which is why I generally swerve those threads. That and the invented ones. One post and vanish types.

You and me both, justasking111 .... edited to add that in fact I often scroll down to see if the OP's returned before replying at all* *

I also noticed HQ's message about re-enlivening old threads to give OPs a better chance at getting replies and wondered if this was a reflection of fewer new ones being made
I'd love to now if there are any idiot-proof sites/tools which reveal website usage, but just don't have the skills

I don't think it matters how many, or how few threads/posts there have been in the past about the voluntary nature of the NW, or whether or not there should be paid night mods.

The fact is that this attack on the site has brought the issue into sharp focus for many members who are now calling for paid night mods.

Basically, until someone realises that something is a serious problem, they are not going to call for a solution to that problem. But now that we have seen how important this matter is, it is completely valid for us to call for a solution - the right solution - which is paid night mods, imo.

I've been thinking a lot about the unpaid volunteers backlash. I've come to the conclusion that I don't especially care whether they are paid or not. Loads of companies and organisations use volunteers and if people are prepared to do something for you for nothing then why not let them? It's not as if they are forced or coerced or lied to about the lack of pay.

What bothers me is not that they perform this duty for free, but that they seem to be toothless tigers operating in an inadequate system. Getting this right is far more important than arguing over whether or not a grown adult should be able to choose to do volunteer work for a company that could probably afford to pay them.